PWmod: faction wars, without the "type-to-roleplay"

[crazycracka]

I'm tossing the subject out there because there was some talk in my clan about interest in a PWmod server, that's more focused on the faction wars, and less about what is considered "roleplaying". 

I know there are lots of NA people who play cRPG regularly who enjoyed the mod for the faction wars, but are turned off by the "type-to-roleplay" rules that came along with it.  This game has a very unique(pretty awesome imo) gameplay system when it comes to factions, and the victory condition(which is never turned on), but its dumbed down by the "roleplaying" rules that say you have to declare war in global, send a messenger and change your faction name. There's a consensus among the people who I've talked to/got to play the game is that: roleplaying doesn't necessarily mean typing everything out; roleplaying as a faction should mean you have sentries/a lookout watching the approach to your lands. If there's an opposing faction gathering and moving towards your castle, you should prepare to defend your land.

I understand people think, "well you're just here to DM", but that's not the case. I, like a lot of other people, find the faction/castle wars system pretty amazing. In no other mod do you have the experience of trying to build your faction from the ground up: recruiting a few people to your cause>arming yourself to take a piece of land to call your own>securing your holdings, whether that means having to actively defend your walls or ally'n with another faction; all within one gaming session. There is no other mod where you can have your castle sieged one minute, break the siege the next, ride out and have an open field skirmish, then continue on to siege their castle.

Personally, my ideal game of pwmod would have the majority of the people in the faction of their choosing, struggling to keep control of their castle(s) and a few commoners who are there to: profit from/support/destory the factions; whether that's thru intel gathering, assassinations, doctor/vet services, theivery, mercenary work, etc...

So basically I'm wondering if there's any support within the pwmod community for a server that's focused more on the faction wars and less about what is generally considered roleplaying.

 

[John Frederick]

隐藏

I'm tossing the subject out there because there was some talk in my clan about interest in a PWmod server, that's more focused on the faction wars, and less about what is considered "roleplaying". 

I know there are lots of NA people who play cRPG regularly who enjoyed the mod for the faction wars, but are turned off by the "type-to-roleplay" rules that came along with it.  This game has a very unique(pretty awesome imo) gameplay system when it comes to factions, and the victory condition(which is never turned on), but its dumbed down by the "roleplaying" rules that say you have to declare war in global, send a messenger and change your faction name. There's a consensus among the people who I've talked to/got to play the game is that: roleplaying doesn't necessarily mean typing everything out; roleplaying as a faction should mean you have sentries/a lookout watching the approach to your lands. If there's an opposing faction gathering and moving towards your castle, you should prepare to defend your land.

I understand people think, "well you're just here to DM", but that's not the case. I, like a lot of other people, find the faction/castle wars system pretty amazing. In no other mod do you have the experience of trying to build your faction from the ground up: recruiting a few people to your cause>arming yourself to take a piece of land to call your own>securing your holdings, whether that means having to actively defend your walls or ally'n with another faction; all within one gaming session. There is no other mod where you can have your castle sieged one minute, break the siege the next, ride out and have an open field skirmish, then continue on to siege their castle.

Personally, my ideal game of pwmod would have the majority of the people in the faction of their choosing, struggling to keep control of their castle(s) and a few commoners who are there to: profit from/support/destory the factions; whether that's thru intel gathering, assassinations, doctor/vet services, theivery, mercenary work, etc...

So basically I'm wondering if there's any support within the pwmod community for a server that's focused more on the faction wars and less about what is generally considered roleplaying.

Make one. Maybe you'll drag along all of the sword swinging idiots that are only looking to fight rather than conduct in some peaceful, dialogue induced roleplay.

 

[Legolan]

I might not play on it more than a RP server, but I would play on it.

 

[Dark_Hamlet]

I like to roleplay, but I dislike the rules to roleplay or the rules that forces you to roleplay.

 

[Der Einzige]

I like to roleplay, but I dislike the rules to roleplay or the rules that forces you to roleplay.

This^

 

[Devilize]

I believe some rules would be enforced such as a zone for none faction citizens to craft and such in peace without fear of attack. You can have a functional and enjoyable pwmod without the type-to-roleplay aspect.

 

[crazycracka]

Make one. Maybe you'll drag along all of the sword swinging idiots that are only looking to fight rather than conduct in some peaceful, dialogue induced roleplay.

you have to be one or the other? Personally I like my peaceful dialogue to take place when I'm offering the terms of your surrender.

 

[Der Einzige]

Make one. Maybe you'll drag along all of the sword swinging idiots that are only looking to fight rather than conduct in some peaceful, dialogue induced roleplay.

you have to be one or the other? Personally I like my peaceful dialogue to take place when I'm offering the terms of your surrender.

Don't mind him, not all roleplay is standing in a building typing for a few hours.

 

[The Cleric]

I think this is called native, or crpg, or mm, or mount and gladius.  If you want a mod where you have faction wars, go to a combat mod.  Now, granted pw was indeed not created as a rp mod, it is nigh unanimously used as an rp mod and the warmongering that comes from combat mods is generally left to said combat mods.  IF you want a more tactical war without just, spawn, kill or be killed, repeat, then try clan fights with arranged scenarios perhaps.

 

[Rasorath]

Not all servers have rules telling people how to declare war on eachother.
These are the only regulations surrounding war I have on my server:

4. Faction War:
Actively seeking out people who have just spawned in order to kill them over and over again will make an administrator intervene. Join the faction if you're going to fight for them, don't fight for a faction as a Commoner or an Outlaw. Only factions can be at war, Commoners and Outlaws does not count as factions.

Though, it seems to me, what you've got in mind is a server without any rules, with a victory condition, am I right? In any case, it sounds very interesting. Voted yes.

I think this is called native, or crpg, or mm, or mount and gladius.  If you want a mod where you have faction wars, go to a combat mod.  Now, granted pw was indeed not created as a rp mod, it is nigh unanimously used as an rp mod and the warmongering that comes from combat mods is generally left to said combat mods.  IF you want a more tactical war without just, spawn, kill or be killed, repeat, then try clan fights with arranged scenarios perhaps.

What crazycracka is suggesting is creating a server that would let players play the way the mod was meant to be played. Don't make a fool out of yourself.

 

[The Cleric]

Not all servers have rules telling people how to declare war on eachother.
These are the only regulations surrounding war I have on my server:

4. Faction War:
Actively seeking out people who have just spawned in order to kill them over and over again will make an administrator intervene. Join the faction if you're going to fight for them, don't fight for a faction as a Commoner or an Outlaw. Only factions can be at war, Commoners and Outlaws does not count as factions.

Though, it seems to me, what you've got in mind is a server without any rules, with a victory condition, am I right? In any case, it sounds very interesting. Voted yes.

I think this is called native, or crpg, or mm, or mount and gladius.  If you want a mod where you have faction wars, go to a combat mod.  Now, granted pw was indeed not created as a rp mod, it is nigh unanimously used as an rp mod and the warmongering that comes from combat mods is generally left to said combat mods.  IF you want a more tactical war without just, spawn, kill or be killed, repeat, then try clan fights with arranged scenarios perhaps.

What crazycracka is suggesting is creating a server that would let players play the way the mod was meant to be played. Don't make a fool out of yourself.

As much as you would like to think I was being hostile, I wasn't, thanks for the insults.  Secondly, it was a mere suggestion and I did indeed state the origninal intent of the mod and some viable solutions, before you sling sand in someones eyes please glean their true intent.  Now to move on like adults I would like to state that there are some deals going on for server spaces and boxes of you wanted to creat a wartorn server for pw, perhaps azrayel or one of the other mappers would be able to assist you in war maps.  I think one of the best conflict based maps is scene five, its very straightforward with castle placement and resource gathering, sadly its not up to date.

 

[Boarlady]

A warplay server. Good luck. Another good route for inquiring about this is in-game. Just asking people if that is what they'd prefer (not advertising as that gets you banned)  No rules always looks good on paper  I do understand what you mean though, you really can't do that in another mod. Native and c-rpg and all that don't really offer that.


But yes there are tons of people who would love to run around KOSing and not having to type so your server would definitely have a future in the mod. Novicus for one, would worship you.

Also no, typing a lot does not equal roleplaying and vice versa. But it is a creative bonus if you're into it. Roleplaying is just playing a role, the same thing your favorite actors/actresses do in movies. We've evolved far beyond silent movies eh? Same idea.

Roleplay is still a general choice on the mod if you think about it. Announcing war isn't really roleplay. Demanding taxes isn't either, thats actually normal unless you think everyone can read your mind. Most robbers voice demands realistically. But as I said I completely understand, you just want to get a castle and fight/develop/rule a kingdom with as little typing as possible. Makes sense.

 

[Azrayel]

I think things like prior declaration of war/sending messengers/etc. is all bull ****, personally. You're right that actions can be greater communicators than words, and the creator of the mod has even said that PW is not made for role-play, although it is possible.

Rasorath has already made this point, I know, but if you'd be interested in a restricted/no-rules server I'm not going to hold you back. v2 and v3 were largely fun because there was no inherent safety net by means of admins (who were never on and ineffectual when they were), and the community and mod flourished for the solidarity it brought about.

Ganking gankers builds relations, really.


I believe TC (a North American server)'s rule-set, which we share with Rasorath's server VBV and openly invite other servers to use at well, allows for what you're talking about. If not, and have specific changes in mind, I'd love to talk with you about it- I agree, faction warfare can be one of the best parts of this mod (although for me I still enjoy rolePlaying, I just don't expect to sit in a chatroom with 3D avatars with the very occasional killing of enemies like some people do) and can be done on good maps.

Really, though, even if what you're proposing is a "no rules" server, I think that'd be a very interesting experiment to see. I just think you might want to stay away from the term "faction wars" and down-talking "role play" (mostly because it makes some people overly sensitive to hear, gee wonder why). Just a server where you can do what you want would be a healthy change, and I'd like to help you make it a reality.

it is nigh unanimously used as an rp mod and the warmongering that comes from combat mods is generally left to said combat mods

EU players live and breath faction warfare, that's why scene 7, "River of Sorrows" exists, Bayard- and if you hadn't noticed, they outnumber us at the moment. Greatly.

You also cannot deny PW adds things that no other mod does in ways no other mod has dared, and gives you a whole lot of freedom outside of some sort of structure. In cRPG you push buttons and wait for designated times to "raid a village," and in PW you get people together and ride in there steel swinging.


EDIT: *gives not give, god that sounded stupid

 

[Dark_Hamlet]

I don't like roleplay rules, but some normal rules are fine and needed. Freedom is good to have, but your freedom must end where the freedom of someone else starts. The total freedom with everyone happy is utopic :p

 

[Knüppel]

隐藏: on topic

Organized Factions? Anytime.
PW can offer a great experience for two (or more) organized groups of 10+ people who compete over the main income source in some area, territory, a woman or for old rivalries.
You don't only have to maintain the faction's income, you have to make sure the faction produces enough weapons ingame in the armory to equip the soldiers.
As long as you use the right map (Which is this one of course) you can have an awesome time competing to dominate the land.

隐藏: rant

I personally am not a fan of enforced typing either. When my  character sentences someone to die, this will has it's reasons and the guy doesn't need to know in advance he will get shot by some guy when he next showes up in the open.
Let's be honest, 60% of the population are not worth Semi's breath. get serious characters that have roles, than we can talk. Otherwise, why not let them work the mines/stand guard/be killed for attempted robbery without further typing/talking then the instructions I need them to follow? I will tell my guard to kill the bandit, not the bandit that he is going to get killed now for what he did to the peasants the past half hour


Besides that it's been a week since I played but isn't most typing still happening in global, as long as it is not about that you have to pay 1000 or die? I barely count that as rp worth to protect with rules.
and it is the map with free weapons for every kid, and tons o bugs that makes the mod fail, I repeat again. Not any ruleset or lax rule enforcement by admins.

隐藏: input, nothing new though

After Lowlands, United's policy was like giving a kid a gun on the promise it would be careful with it. There is a reason guns are not ffa in rl. If we want to roleplay a society where you can freely choose your role, and are not forced to wear armor, we need protection for this roles in the game.
Admins can ban and warn and everything, but in the end locked armories prevent all that in advance. But yeah, you seem to prefer randoming and admin complaints over people crying for weapons.

Too bad that just like in rl we have a strong weapon lobbyist group in the pw community, and I just don't care enough to teach all of them better

 

[The Cleric]

I think things like prior declaration of war/sending messengers/etc. is all bull ****, personally. You're right that actions can be greater communicators than words, and the creator of the mod has even said that PW is not made for role-play, although it is possible.

Rasorath has already made this point, I know, but if you'd be interested in a restricted/no-rules server I'm not going to hold you back. v2 and v3 were largely fun because there was no inherent safety net by means of admins (who were never on and ineffectual when they were), and the community and mod flourished for the solidarity it brought about.

Ganking gankers builds relations, really.


I believe TC (a North American server)'s rule-set, which we share with Rasorath's server VBV and openly invite other servers to use at well, allows for what you're talking about. If not, and have specific changes in mind, I'd love to talk with you about it- I agree, faction warfare can be one of the best parts of this mod (although for me I still enjoy rolePlaying, I just don't expect to sit in a chatroom with 3D avatars with the very occasional killing of enemies like some people do) and can be done on good maps.

Really, though, even if what you're proposing is a "no rules" server, I think that'd be a very interesting experiment to see. I just think you might want to stay away from the term "faction wars" and down-talking "role play" (mostly because it makes some people overly sensitive to hear, gee wonder why). Just a server where you can do what you want would be a healthy change, and I'd like to help you make it a reality.

it is nigh unanimously used as an rp mod and the warmongering that comes from combat mods is generally left to said combat mods

EU players live and breath faction warfare, that's why scene 7, "River of Sorrows" exists, Bayard- and if you hadn't noticed, they outnumber us at the moment. Greatly.

You also cannot deny PW adds things that no other mod does in ways no other mod has dared, and gives you a whole lot of freedom outside of some sort of structure. In cRPG you push buttons and wait for designated times to "raid a village," and in PW you get people together and ride in there steel swinging.


EDIT: *gives not give, god that sounded stupid

I'm going to speak this very clearly to all of you, I was not speaking against his idea, drop the notion.  I am very well aware that crpg is based almost entirely on how much time you put into it (gear/levels) and native is the "spawn, kill or be killed, repeat" I was referance and suggesting tailored clan matches.  Now, along the lines of EU players outnumbering us and their "living and breathing faction wars"  That's true, yet let me direct you to the complaints thread, most of this stems from actions taking during faction wars, now, do not mistakes me as someone who dissaproves of faction warfare, may I remind you that my household controlled the NA landscape through means of overwhelming force, I was as stated earlier and obviously ignored, mentioning some viable options for the thread author to look into and I reiterate said options, namely the server space and boxes being on discount on jestservers if memory serves.  Also, a server where you can do what you want for once, yes a very good idea.  Another suggestion, create a thread designed with the purpose of factions enlisting for a better idea of who might populate said server *wichever path you choose for this idea*.

 

[Azrayel]

I don't like roleplay rules, but some normal rules are fine and needed. Freedom is good to have, but your freedom must end where the freedom of someone else starts. The total freedom with everyone happy is utopic :p

But what is Utopia except for trying to regulate the way humans feel?

Things aren't always going to go your way, but being babied does nothing but fill complaint threads and administrationRage. Furthermore, notice all these people rallying to defend role play? Where are being role playing, exactly?

Not on United, the rules there just support lots of refunds not role play, and HCRP was created as a place for United players to go and RP-- it's been a while since I was on, but it's in my favorites and whenever I check the server's dead. If you want a sheltered RP experience with very powerful admins, go play Warband RolePlay.

PW should not be about giving people freedoms, it should be about giving them nothing and forcing them and their's to work their way up. Will they mine, or rob? Lone wolf, or run in a pack? Accept surrenders, or slay all possible foes? Strike in swift secrecy, or announce thrice from the sounds of a horn in broad day light? These choices make the mod, and in recent days rules seem only to stifle them.

This man's post should serve as a message to us all. That there are people out there wanting to play, who cannot play, because their play style is not properly represented by the rule set. Nobody likes less players in the mod, and nobody likes the whiners except when they're whining with them. I'd say we ought to at least give the guy a chance; it's a good idea at heart.

 

[Legolan]

This mind of play would take new kinds of maps, and castle styles..

 

[The Cleric]

It is a good idea, I also want to point out the threads that have been sprining up this week about breathing life back into rp.  As the mod has become more or les... castlwars...  Namely, legolans thread, cerce, mediths, some of mine, rp ideas threads etc etc etc.  So as your defending the right for the mod to be cut throat and dog eat dog, so too are the role players crying for justice.  Let not the scales of these qualms sway too for from balance.

 

[Azrayel]

This mind of play would take new kinds of maps, and castle styles..

This is how the mod was originally played, and was even played this way on Test Scene. A regression wouldn't need new maps so much as it'd need a newfound willingness for change.

And by willingness I mean an "oh my god more than 30 people are playing on a server in my hemisphere!" and them just hopping on and dealing with it, because I know that's what I'd do even if I wound up espousing the values of role play.

It is a good idea, I also want to point out the threads that have been sprining up this week about breathing life back into rp.  As the mod has become more or les... castlwars...  Namely, legolans thread, cerce, mediths, some of mine, rp ideas threads etc etc etc.  So as your defending the right for the mod to be cut throat and dog eat dog, so too are the role players crying for justice.  Let not the scales of these qualms sway too for from balance.

In my day, role players brought their justice on the end of their swords or they had clandestine meetings in sewers about which dictator to kill next when they weren't free-running along the roofs.

Forgive me if this all seems old fashioned to you, but dog-eat-dog encourages more genuine role play in my opinion. Opinions are subject to change, of course, and I'd love to hear arguments to the contrary- but I've yet to see anything compelling said, since v3 when the whole role playing versus castle wars debate began.

This is the part where I mention I termed the phrase castle wars: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=214298.0