Punish "Deserter" Captains? Addressing lone wolfing in multiplayer.

Currently Viewing (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Ling*

Sergeant
Best answers
0


rip double post
You don't want me in there, i'm one of the worst skirmish players that exists, believe me.
Also naw those players I mentioned are just some other highly skilled captains that we often play with and against who often pick cavalry.
 

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
Any cav player with a shred of competence isn't going to ride into a sword.



I agree with that.



Unfortunately the marathon happened on the same day. Also, I hope it's clear that I'm discussing captain players in general and not you specifically, it's just that Ling brought you up and for whatever reason yours is the only POV that we have so it's the only available example.
It's not clear at all you were targeting me and saying my play was embarrassing. Grendel has made many videos of us I suggest you watch them before you start tossing insults.
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
Best answers
0
It's not clear at all you were targeting me and saying my play was embarrassing. Grendel has made many videos of us I suggest you watch them before you start tossing insults.
Being unable to swing a weapon without hitting allies is embarrassing. But that's not exclusive to you.
 

Ling*

Sergeant
Best answers
0
Being unable to swing a weapon without hitting allies is embarrassing. But that's not exclusive to you.
Eh now that's a bit unfair. I would argue that if you are injuring or killing one of your guys, while cleaving and wounding / killing 2 of theirs it doesn't matter if a few eggs get cracked. It's mainly the side swipes that deal friendly fire damage anyways and those are the hits which cleave through enemies in an aoe. As long as you are killing the enemy more than your teammates, friendly fire isn't something to be overly concerned about, and It's certainly not a determinant of skill level.

To give you an example: Beefless has probably the highest K/D ratio out of anyone in the league, atleast from the screenshots that have been submitted for win-rank verification. He friendly fires all the time, but it doesn't matter because for every one unit of friendly's he kills he's killing 5-6 enemies.

Let's compare Beefless's K/D with a more conservative player like MoonDeth who has a similar wincount but doesn't team-kill very often.

 
Last edited:

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
Being unable to swing a weapon without hitting allies is embarrassing. But that's not exclusive to you.
Oh so you were targeting me finally some truth! And how about you be more accurate with you words, don't use words like pretty sure and such. Being a TW moderator requires some objectivity. What team do you play for? Have not ever played against BTL and if so what are the outcomes of those games. Just stop talking about me like you know how I play watching 5 minutes of a 2 hour long session hardly gives you a clue to my capabilities. You don't need to respond to this.
 

Surreal120

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Best answers
0
Being unable to swing a weapon without hitting allies is embarrassing. But that's not exclusive to you.
Oh so you were targeting me finally some truth! And how about you be more accurate with you words, don't use words like pretty sure and such. Being a TW moderator requires some objectivity. What team do you play for? Have not ever played against BTL and if so what are the outcomes of those games. Just stop talking about me like you know how I play watching 5 minutes of a 2 hour long session hardly gives you a clue to my capabilities. You don't need to respond to this.
He’s not wrong tho
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
Best answers
0
This got pretty derailed.

Like many players, Sammy is a good Captain player, but not good mechanically. That is the SINGLE viewpoint we have to watch on the Grand Finals. I literally can't form an opinion on any other player performing because we don't have their perspective.

Most of this thread was about discussing players mechanically winning captain rounds due to their 1vX ability. My point was that 1vX is currently semi-viable and a toxic way to play. In the future, when Captain players are more mechanically skilled, 1vX is even more of a concern.

Oh so you were targeting me finally some truth! And how about you be more accurate with you words, don't use words like pretty sure and such. Being a TW moderator requires some objectivity. What team do you play for? Have not ever played against BTL and if so what are the outcomes of those games. Just stop talking about me like you know how I play watching 5 minutes of a 2 hour long session hardly gives you a clue to my capabilities. You don't need to respond to this.
I'm not acting in the capacity of a moderator. I'm acting as a player of CL with a high level of investment in Captain.

My search went like this: I clicked in the middle of the match and saw a TK, and then switched to the beginning and saw more TKs. I concluded that a lot of TKs happen. That's not comprehensive, you're right. I will watch the whole finals.

Eh now that's a bit unfair. I would argue that if you are injuring or killing one of your guys, while cleaving and wounding / killing 2 of theirs it doesn't matter if a few eggs get cracked. It's mainly the side swipes that deal friendly fire damage anyways and those are the hits which cleave through enemies in an aoe. As long as you are killing the enemy more than your teammates, friendly fire isn't something to be overly concerned about, and It's certainly not a determinant of skill level.
Every bot life does matter, we've seen numerous rounds end up with a handful of players alive, even down to a 1v1, so needless TK isn't great.

But you're right, if a player TKs but hits enemies more, then it's still optimal for that player to attack while TKing. I've used the same logic on archers. Of course, if the player didn't TK at all, that would be much more optimal.
 

yerroc

Recruit
Best answers
0
We watched Sammy's POV in the finals. Pretty sure half of his swings were teamhits.

Apparently, the only recording of the Grand Finals is third party, but here's the proof: https://www.twitch.tv/ (TW forums don't work) videos/732356579

In the first round, BTL had three player teamkills that I noticed. The second round, Sammy's first swing is a teamkill. I stopped watching there, you don't even need to watch more than 5 minutes to observe how embarrassing that has to be.

They won because they're better at blobbing infantry and running into people than KoV. Congrats I guess?



People don't "deal with cav," that's an absurd statement to make. Everyone picks shock or shield infantry, which cav is useless against. That's not player skill difference, that's playing the meta.

Archers are completely unviable due to the power relation with cav.
Oh yeah spectate a shield main in a match with 140 ping vs 30 ping and use that as the baseline, big brain brandis over here.
 

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
This got pretty derailed.

Like many players, Sammy is a good Captain player, but not good mechanically. That is the SINGLE viewpoint we have to watch on the Grand Finals. I literally can't form an opinion on any other player performing because we don't have their perspective.

Most of this thread was about discussing players mechanically winning captain rounds due to their 1vX ability. My point was that 1vX is currently semi-viable and a toxic way to play. In the future, when Captain players are more mechanically skilled, 1vX is even more of a concern.



I'm not acting in the capacity of a moderator. I'm acting as a player of CL with a high level of investment in Captain.

My search went like this: I clicked in the middle of the match and saw a TK, and then switched to the beginning and saw more TKs. I concluded that a lot of TKs happen. That's not comprehensive, you're right. I will watch the whole finals.



Every bot life does matter, we've seen numerous rounds end up with a handful of players alive, even down to a 1v1, so needless TK isn't great.

But you're right, if a player TKs but hits enemies more, then it's still optimal for that player to attack while TKing. I've used the same logic on archers. Of course, if the player didn't TK at all, that would be much more optimal.
Not the best statistics but not embarrassing for taking shields a lot. Do I TK a lot sometimes when I'm nervous yes, but I think if I do as much as you suggest my stats would bare that out. See you in CL.
 
Last edited:

Surreal120

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Best answers
0
Not the best statistics but not embarrassing for taking shields a lot. Do I TK a lot sometimes when I'm nervous yes, but I think if I do as much as you suggest my stats would bear that out. See you in CL.
Never understood why the stats counts bot kills
 

Ling*

Sergeant
Best answers
0
Yep. Funny thing is that "Assists" is currently most truthful statistic and that tells a lot.
Assists only count if you dealt damage and the unit you damaged gets killed by another unit before you yourself die, and you die quite a bit in captain mode, everyone does. This is why there are so few assists in comparison.
 

Kripaz

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
Assists only count if you dealt damage and the unit you damaged gets killed by another unit before you yourself die, and you die quite a bit in captain mode, everyone does. This is why there are so few assists in comparison.
This sums it up. It's the only stat that actually tells what you have done. It would be actually nice if stats were separated or it would only count personal stats, but that's a topic for a another thread
 

Ling*

Sergeant
Best answers
0
This sums it up. It's the only stat that actually tells what you have done. It would be actually nice if stats were separated or it would only count personal stats, but that's a topic for a another thread
It doesnt count any of your kills though, or kills made by your own ai units.the assists statistic is probably the most useless and non informative statistic in captain mode. It's kind of silly that you think it is in any way revealing or indicative of anything relevant.
 
Last edited:

Alyss

Master Knight
Best answers
0
Imagine if mmr for skirmish was based on KD ratio. Captain players would be the best players in skirmish and would carry the teams!
 

Ling*

Sergeant
Best answers
0
Imagine if mmr for skirmish was based on KD ratio. Captain players would be the best players in skirmish and would carry the teams!
As far as i understand from what ive heard from @azakhi, the mmr for the 2 modes Skirmish and Captain are tracked separately and independently from eachother.
 

Alyss

Master Knight
Best answers
0
As far as i understand from what ive heard from @azakhi, the mmr for the 2 modes Skirmish and Captain are tracked separately and independently from eachother.
Mmr is currently trash for skirmish ngl. It's basically the same as before (one team full of 750 badges) but the teammates are worse
 

Domuka

Recruit
Best answers
0
Why not a middle ground? Just have it so if the captain is too far away, he cant issue orders to his squad, which then will either force a teammate to have to babysit, or risk losing the whole unit. It also allows the players to game the dumb a.i. as well as cap flags and scout.

This would make it so that if there is a rambo, the team will need to be more aggressive and hunt the units that are just sitting, while the other team has to decide to either babysit or actually play.

Either way, in pub matches, its up to the players to deal with the rambo and most pubs are not very bright or willing to take advice on what to do...
 

Virtuosho

Recruit
Best answers
0
lol why would you complain about people leaving unit banks?

It's a terrible strategy, means the rest of your team is 4v5 for troop squads and manning poinst, and if enemy cav spots your troop you're ****ed.

Bad players use troop banks, and good players beat them for using such a dumb strategy.

Leave it in, so idiots can keep getting owned, if people are abusing the system because they're selfish idiots and don't want to play as a team mate (a lot of these on the east asia servers) just allow people to report them, then ban them.