Punish "Deserter" Captains? Addressing lone wolfing in multiplayer.

Currently Viewing (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
Amoeba as in, retarded AI. I'm LITERALLY advocating for it to be NOT like duels, where a single guy if he's good enough can wipe a unit by himself. You can literally walk up, and walk around a unit in circles spamming left swing and the AI is too ****ing stupid to do anything about it.



Jeez, cause I dunno, I might play it if it's fixed?

Very simple fix, Napoleonic Wars had it, the further you are from your unit the less damage you do. And that game had AI that could randomly headshot you with guns and they still needed it. I don't need to discuss this further.
Nobody agrees with you go away!
 

Kripaz

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
Yep, I think this discussion went down the drain after "Hardcore Captain Players" came and told the facts. Well I guess there must be a mode so you can feel like a super hero mowing down waves of enemies. God forbid if AI were decent.
 

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
This discussion was in the gutter to begin with because you have people who barely play trying to change the mechanics of the game. My suggestion to people who want this type of change is to play more and over come your weaknesses.
 

Mabons

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
Alright, new angle of approach then. Is there any reason why having your unit automatically follow you after a certain distance apart, or a damage reduction after that same distance for your player character only, is bad in a competitive captain game? No one except Ling has said:

If you imposed this restriction here are just some of the things you would no longer be able to do as a captain:
1. Turn enemy shields.
2. Lure enemy Ai away from a fight.
3. Distract a group of archers.
4. Annihilate enemy troops while your Ai remains in superior positioning.
5. Bait skirmisher units into wasting ammo.
6. Capture flags while your units remain with the rest of your team.
7. Utilize high ground to gain a tactical view of the battlefield and command your troops remotely.
8. Hold off enemy units so that your archer units can create distance to kite.
9. Distract enemy captains, preventing them from getting kills and commanding their units.
And as far as I can see, all of those things are still possible with the suggestions. Especially the reduced damage one.
 

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
Alright, new angle of approach then. Is there any reason why having your unit automatically follow you after a certain distance apart, or a damage reduction after that same distance for your player character only, is bad in a competitive captain game? No one except Ling has said:



And as far as I can see, all of those things are still possible with the suggestions. Especially the reduced damage one.
I thought you were done discussing this. Also, anything you suggest wouldn't solve anything, Archers would still get murdered by cav, it's their number one target. This has already been explained by Yerroc. Please look over his previous posts. Conversation over.
 

ak56

Recruit
Best answers
0
I think this thread has completely gone off track. You keep mentioning that it isn't a game wining tactic. Which your right it isn't, Its very easy to pick off their troops when they decide to stash them, but that isn't the point. The game is called captain mode, their are many other modes for soloing. If you enjoy slaughtering the AI go play SP. If you want to have challenging solo fights play the other three modes which exist.

It would be nice to hear from TW's so we know what their intention is for this mode. Personally I think the name suggests that you should be ordering your troops around. Something difficult to do if you cant see them. Whether soloing is useful or not is irrelevant, if the intention is to order troops around.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Subforum Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
I thought you were done discussing this. Also, anything you suggest wouldn't solve anything, Archers would still get murdered by cav, it's their number one target. This has already been explained by Yerroc. Please look over his previous posts. Conversation over.
If you continue to be antagonistic, you'll recieve a warning. Stop telling someone to shut up and go away for giving an opinion; the people who 'barely' play are the people who have played but aren't finding it that enjoyable because of pressing issues, just because you barely play doesnt mean you don't understand what works and what doesn't. Let people have their say.

On another note, people need to stop being aggressive to others who share different opinions.
 
Last edited:

vfkaseke

Regular
WB
Best answers
0
Alright, new angle of approach then. Is there any reason why having your unit automatically follow you after a certain distance apart, or a damage reduction after that same distance for your player character only, is bad in a competitive captain game?
I would not mind them going either auto "follow me" or "charge" mode if you go too far away from your units. I feel like you would need to be able to see that distance with the look around button, but otherwise I think it would be easy to implement. You WOULD need to micromanage a bit more, but otherwise it shouldn't change things too much.

Of course it would make cav a lot worse at the moment, but the devs HAVE said they are trying to work on cav AI, getting on that straight after fixing archer AI.

On the other hand, I really dislike the damage reduction idea.

Oh, and this coming from a player playing on same level as yerroc and sammytobe. There's more high level captain players that want this as well.
 

Ling*

Sergeant at Arms
Best answers
0
I still think we should give "Captain" units abilities that buff nearby troops when activated. Only the Captain unit you spawn into the round as would be able to use these abilities, meaning when you die as your Captain unit, you can no longer use the buffs until the next round.
This would give an incentive to "ramboing" players to stick with the group and not run risky solo strategies for fear of losing their captain unit and his abilities. Additionally it would allow players to synchronize these abilities / buffs for their troops in conjunction with eachother allowing for more dynamic team play and would cause players to stick with their team to maximize this benefit, thus potentially preventing wandering solo-artists.

Here is a mock-up of what these abilities could potentially look like for 3 of the factions. Keep in mind i'm not suggesting these specific changes, these abilities are placeholders, i'm just giving an example and a general idea of what a system of abilities could be.
Note: You would have to be within a certain close range area to activate these abilities on your troops, practically standing on top of them in the group. You would not be able to activate any of these abilities outside the group and while you were alone. Perhaps the ability benefits can be like an Aura that emanates out from the Captain unit and affects all friendly units inside the Area of Effect, or it could be limited to just buffing that specific captains units in that aoe.

Faction: Vlandia
Unit: Peasant (Hero)
Hero ability: Pillage- When activated, this ability gives a 10% melee damage bonus to this captains peasant units for 15 seconds. Cooldown time: 1 minute.
Unit: Voulgier (Hero)
Hero ability: Bull Rush - When activated, this captains voulgiers take 15% reduced damage and move 15% faster for 5 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Sergeant (Hero)
Hero ability: Brace for impact- When activated, this captains Sergeant Units armor value is doubled for 5 seconds but the unit also has its movements speed reduced by 50%. Cooldown 1 minute.
Unit: Arbelist (Hero)
Hero ability: Rally - When activated, this captains Arbelist Units instantly regenerate 25 health, and gain 5% movement speed bonus for 10 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Sharpshooter (Hero)
Hero ability: Ironsights- When activated, this captains Sharpshooter Units have 5% increased accuracy and a 10% faster reload time for 15 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Vanguard (Hero)
Hero ability: Feint - When activated, this captains Vanguard units gain 10% movement speed bonus for 10 seconds. Cooldown 1 Minute.
Unit: Knight (Hero)
Hero ability: Overwhelm - When activated, this captains Knight units have their horses charge damage tripled for 5 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.

Faction: Empire
Unit: Recruit (Hero)
Hero ability: Discipline - When activated, Increases this captains recruit units ranged accuracy by 5% and increases the captains recruit units armor by 5% for 15 seconds. Cooldown 1 minute.
Unit: Menavlion Infantry (Hero)
Hero ability: Devastate - When activated, this captains menvalion infantry units next attack will deal double damage. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Legionary (Hero)
Hero ability: Rank and File - When activated, increases the captains legionary units movement and attack speeds by 15% for 10 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Archer Militia (Hero)
Hero ability: Steady legs- When activated, this captains Archer Militia units cannot be knocked down by horses or camels for 10 seconds. Cooldown 1 minute.
Unit: Palantine Guard (Hero)
Hero ability: Volley - When activated, Increases the ranged firing rate of this captains palantine guard units by 35% for 10 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Courser (Hero)
Hero ability: Trample - When activated, all enemy units that make contact with this captains Courser Units mounts will be knocked over 100% of the time during a 5 second period of time. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Cataphract (Hero)
Hero ability: Hulking Spirit- When activated, this captains cataphract units horses do not rear from any attacks or when colliding with terrain for 10 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.

Faction: Sturgia
Unit: Warrior (Hero)
Hero ability: Battle Cry- When activated, this captains warrior units will gain 5% armor bonus, a 5% movement speed bonus, a 5% damage bonus for 10 seconds. Cooldown 1 minute.
Unit: Brigand (Hero)
Hero ability: Bloodlust- When activated, this captains Brigand units will regenerate 25% of the damage they deal as health for 10 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Berserker (Hero)
Hero ability: Unstoppable -When activated, this captains Berserker units take no damage for 3 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Varyag (Hero)
Hero ability: Slayer - When activated, this captains Varyag units 1-handed attacks are 50% faster for 5 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Hunter (Hero)
Hero ability: Tracking -When activated, holding alt will reveal the enemy captains names and locations and will appear as red highlighted text for 5 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Raider (Hero)
Hero ability: Rapid Strike -When activated, this captains Raider units will attack 10% faster for 20 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.
Unit: Druhznik (Hero)
Hero ability: Rampage - When activated, this captains Druhznik units will deal an increased 35% damage for 10 seconds. Cooldown 2 minutes.

I believe a system similar to this would solve a lot of the problems mentioned by many people in this thread about solo-rambo players, without imposing restrictive systems that remove gameplay elements and detract from the experience of the mode. This ability system in my opinion, which you are entitled to disagree with, is a perfect example of something that ADDS to the game AND solves negative gameplay issues by providing a POSITIVE incentive for not ramboing and doesn't PUNISH players for playing the game.


Add content. Don't take it away.
 
Last edited:

Ling*

Sergeant at Arms
Best answers
0
If you continue to be antagonistic, you'll recieve a warning. Stop telling someone to shut up and go away for giving an opinion; the people who 'barely' play are the people who have played but aren't finding it that enjoyable because of pressing issues, just because you barely play doesnt mean you don't understand what works and what doesn't. Let people have their say.

On another note, people need to stop being aggressive to others who share different opinions.
I would agree we shouldn't be shutting people down from speaking.And being rude to eachother will accomplish nothing. But I think it's also important to point out that experience DOES matter and it matters a whole lot, especially when you are going to be giving advice to taleworlds on what should or should not be implemented into the game for a particular gamemode. I am way less qualified to have an opinion about Skirmish balance and what the mechanics should look like than say the BEAST championship team players are, i have maybe 20 skirmish games under my belt, they probably have over 2,000. This doesn't make my opinion invalid or shouldn't be heard, but seriously 20 games, 100 games, 200 games isn't nearly enough experience for me to make a qualified and educated decision about changing mechanics. I just want to point out sammy is literally one of the captains league season 1 grand champions, he's one of the best players in the gamemode. Does this mean he's right 100% of the time? No. But it does qualify him with enough experience and understanding of the meta of captain mode to be able to make an educated opinion and correct others when they are making the wrong plays, namely when he mentioned Mabons doesn't properly know how to deal with rambo cav, a sentiment which I share by the way as I believe we have pointed out several ways to counter rambo cav, and this is something which can easily be learned by simply playing the game for more time.

Imagine for a second If I created a skirmish thread about how arrows were impossible to counter, no matter what I do, I dodge, I spin, I hide from the enemy, but still the archer keeps killing me, I think the best solution is to remove archers entirely from the gamemode. You, a logical person, would probably try to point out to me the counters that exist for arrows, like hey Ling try grabbing a shield and blocking the arrow it works really great, or how about you try closing the distance between yourself and the archer so that he can no longer shoot arrows. Though I have been in quite a few multiplayer threads that see alot of skirmish player traffic, and i doubt any of the responses I would get would be even half as civil as the ones in this thread. However you would never agree that taking out a core gameplay element like Archery from skirmish would be the answer. When Mabons and OP complained about not being able to counter rambo cav killing their archers, myself, and a few others who are highly skilled and incredibly experienced in the game-mode pointed out that Ramboing units are extremely easy to counter and suggested maybe just maybe the problem isn't with the rambo cav itself, seeing as how experienced players are able to deal with this tactic with ease.
 
Last edited:

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
Best answers
0
I just want to point out sammy is literally one of the captains league season 1 grand champions, he's one of the best players in the gamemode.
We watched Sammy's POV in the finals. Pretty sure half of his swings were teamhits.

Apparently, the only recording of the Grand Finals is third party, but here's the proof: https://www.twitch.tv/ (TW forums don't work) videos/732356579

In the first round, BTL had three player teamkills that I noticed. The second round, Sammy's first swing is a teamkill. I stopped watching there, you don't even need to watch more than 5 minutes to observe how embarrassing that has to be.

They won because they're better at blobbing infantry and running into people than KoV. Congrats I guess?

Mabons and OP complained about not being able to counter rambo cav killing their archers, myself, sammy, and yerrocc pointed out that Ramboing units are extremely easy to counter and suggested maybe just maybe the problem isn't with the rambo cav itself, seeing as how experienced players are able to deal with this tactic with ease.
People don't "deal with cav," that's an absurd statement to make. Everyone picks shock or shield infantry, which cav is useless against. That's not player skill difference, that's playing the meta.

Archers are completely unviable due to the power relation with cav.
 

Ling*

Sergeant at Arms
Best answers
0
We watched Sammy's POV in the finals. Pretty sure half of his swings were teamhits.

Apparently, the only recording of the Grand Finals is third party, but here's the proof: https://www.twitch.tv/ (TW forums don't work) videos/732356579

In the first round, BTL had three player teamkills that I noticed. The second round, Sammy's first swing is a teamkill. I stopped watching there, you don't even need to watch more than 5 minutes to observe how embarrassing that has to be.

They won because they're better at blobbing infantry and running into people than KoV. Congrats I guess?
I don't think that's a fair assessment of their entire season of games they played, let's not pretend they didn't play 4 weeks of matches prior to 1.5 where archers were actually viable brandis. Additionally I think you're dancing around my point because you want to see this restriction implemented, by all means support it, but let's not downplay your fellow captains accomplishments.
 

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
If you continue to be antagonistic, you'll recieve a warning. Stop telling someone to shut up and go away for giving an opinion; the people who 'barely' play are the people who have played but aren't finding it that enjoyable because of pressing issues, just because you barely play doesnt mean you don't understand what works and what doesn't. Let people have their say.

On another note, people need to stop being aggressive to others who share different opinions.
Who was aggressive first calling me a "a plank"
If you continue to be antagonistic, you'll recieve a warning. Stop telling someone to shut up and go away for giving an opinion; the people who 'barely' play are the people who have played but aren't finding it that enjoyable because of pressing issues, just because you barely play doesnt mean you don't understand what works and what doesn't. Let people have their say.

On another note, people need to stop being aggressive to others who share different opinions.
Who was being aggressive first calling me " a plank", you should be more fair at moderating. My main point is people should play more and get better before suggesting to change aspects in the game.
 

Ling*

Sergeant at Arms
Best answers
0
People don't "deal with cav," that's an absurd statement to make. Everyone picks shock or shield infantry, which cav is useless against. That's not player skill difference, that's playing the meta.

Archers are completely unviable due to the power relation with cav.
Step 1: You are player Step 2: Pull out sword Step 3: Poke horse with sword Step 4: Horse go neeiigghhhhh Step 5: Continue shooting after useless rambo cav is dealt with. OR BETTER YET Just wait until the rambo cav approaches your archers, hold fire, and f1f3 as he gets close, your archers will obliterate him even with just maces or swords. Maybe not on the first pass through, but he wont be surviving a second pass.
 

Surreal120

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Best answers
0
Captain mode has a competitive scene? wut. Last time I played the game mode was back in the beta and all anyone did was spam 2h lmao
 

sammytobe

Recruit
Best answers
0
We watched Sammy's POV in the finals. Pretty sure half of his swings were teamhits.

Apparently, the only recording of the Grand Finals is third party, but here's the proof: https://www.twitch.tv/ (TW forums don't work) videos/732356579

In the first round, BTL had three player teamkills that I noticed. The second round, Sammy's first swing is a teamkill. I stopped watching there, you don't even need to watch more than 5 minutes to observe how embarrassing that has to be.

They won because they're better at blobbing infantry and running into people than KoV. Congrats I guess?



People don't "deal with cav," that's an absurd statement to make. Everyone picks shock or shield infantry, which cav is useless against. That's not player skill difference, that's playing the meta.

Archers are completely unviable due to the power relation with cav.
It's about positioning with you men. Anyways we did win and if it was that painful for you turn it off. I never said I was a great skirmishes and that game you mention was on an eu server. So whatever see you next season if you play at all.
 

.Brandis

Subforum Moderator
Best answers
0
Step 1: You are player Step 2: Pull out sword Step 3: Poke horse with sword Step 4: Horse go neeiigghhhhh Step 5: Continue shooting after useless rambo cav is dealt with. OR BETTER YET Just wait until the rambo cav approaches your archers, hold fire, and f1f3 as he gets close, your archers will obliterate him even with just maces or swords. Maybe not on the first pass through, but he wont be surviving a second pass.
Any cav player with a shred of competence isn't going to ride into a sword.

people should play more and get better before suggesting to change aspects in the game.
I agree with that.

It's about positioning with you men. Anyways we did win and if it was that painful for you turn it off. I never said I was a great skirmishes and that game you mention was on an eu server. So whatever see you next season if you play at all.
Unfortunately the marathon happened on the same day. Also, I hope it's clear that I'm discussing captain players in general and not you specifically, it's just that Ling brought you up and for whatever reason yours is the only POV that we have so it's the only available example.
 

Surreal120

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Best answers
0
Someone better pass this info on to Aeducan, Brolex, Beefless, and a few others I can name lol.
Are those the best cav players in captain mode?

Don't worry that's still all anyone does in 1.5. Not enough classes are currently viable to use.
Also here's a link if you wanna check out the competitive scene for captain: https://discord.gg/SSyujWU