Prophecy of Pendor, a lesson in writing

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This is too funny, people defending Bannerlord against POP, this game is a template for mods. It's banal and un immersive. Jesus Chris lol, it's the same three to four kids who have some sort of emotional investment in the game being great. It's not close, 1257 AD destroys this game, it actually has options besides battle arcade fun. The castle upgrade screen? Is that immersive? How about the plot? LOL, how about the villages or castle scenes? Why go to any of them? We got a barber!!!!!! Or the new "stash" button, another menu lol.... Seriously, give a rest boys. Take away the graphics, family dynasty, and improved battles and it's not close to the level of the good conversion mods. It just is not.
 
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This is too funny, people defending Bannerlord against POP, this game is a template for mods. It's banal and un immersive. Jesus Chris lol, it's the same three to four kids who have some sort of emotional investment in the game being great. It's not close, 1257 AD destroys this game, it actually has options besides battle arcade fun. The castle upgrade screen? Is that immersive? How about the plot? LOL, how about the villages or castle scenes? Why go to any of them? We got a barber!!!!!! Or the new "stash" button, another menu lol.... Seriously, give a rest boys. Take away the graphics, family dynasty, and improved battles and it's not close to the level of the good conversion mods. It just is not.
But, but we might get an Sheep hunting tower at 9:00
 
Would you like to make a cogent point in any thread you post in? I will wait with baited breath.
pfff like your constant sheep texture spams or mod overtures to down talk TW :wink: stop being such hypocrite just because youre little sour creamed.
I was just trying to cheer you up after your little rant, but ill give you some time to chill down i guess...Say hi to your friends from me <3
 
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You put this in your OP:


The main thing I took away from it was that you didn't like having siblings or the main quest in the game. The complaints about writing issues specifically were pretty thin, so I'm guessing you meant plotting instead?
This is literally just a segment of this thread, and I'm willing to accept I was wrong on the side that PoP it's not the 100% freedom (which is not a reason to praise Bannerlord for, the siblings thingy is still there), but like I have said 101922 times and it's explicit in the whole other part of the thread, literally every other writing is non existing.
When I talk about writing, I don't literally mean what is written in text or a piece of dialog, its what involves the writing team, if you think a little bit, plots are written, characters are written, lore is written, this is all set by them and how its presented inside the game too (even though, in some aspects such as random companions or charisma checks might be someone else's idea, it's still part of the writing in general, and it's still bad). But it feels like you know that already and you want to feel smart by grabbing pinchs of salt to make pointless arguemnts out of it (just like in that other thread lol). Have all the ego boost you want dude everyone else got what I meant.
 
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This is literally just a segment of this thread, and I'm willing to accept I was wrong on the side that PoP it's not the 100% freedom (which is not a reason to praise Bannerlord for, the siblings thingy is still there), but like I have said 101922 times and it's explicit in the whole other part of the thread, literally every other writing is non existing.
When I talk about writing, I don't literally mean what is written in text or a piece of dialog, its what involves the writing team, if you think a little bit, plots are written, characters are written, lore is written, this is all set by them and how its presented inside the game too. But it feels like you know that already and you want to feel smart by grabbing pinchs of salt to make pointless arguemnts out of it (just like in that other thread lol). Have all the ego boost you want dude everyone else got what I meant.
We all know that youre waiting for Diplomacy and interactions to kick in which we all have. But how can you start kicking on something that isnt even there yet ? Well it is in some small form.... Sure it most prob not gonna be as deep as those mods but can we expect that to from an game that is sandbox action, war and strategy oriented ? I mean i can already see some options where you gonna have some choices with your companions ex...Where you can say you cant trust them anymore and such. So like Warband im pretty sure you can interact with them on an deeper story line and options and consequences what your companions liked and dissliked which we saw in the beginning was there to...., along with the rest of the game as kings and lords going to have their stories and missions within the court.

But i get what you want. You want a real immersive and deep story behind it all and alot of mechanics to back it up which is fair to and would be cool...but then comes the other question will it ever be enough ?
 
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Yes some amazing siege maps with secret entrances.... and you can execute the Pope! Lots of good memories.
If I remember correctly the byzantine siege maps were so ****ed like they had a bunch of broken spawns and I found it funny to see basically half the enemy garrison kissing a wall other sieges worked nicely had their moments of weirdness but nicely
 
If I remember correctly the byzantine siege maps were so ****ed like they had a bunch of broken spawns and I found it funny to see basically half the enemy garrison kissing a wall other sieges worked nicely had their moments of weirdness but nicely
When I say amazing, I mean I park my party behind a wall and sneak all around murdering everyone (much like BL) so these quirky spawns a pathing issues just enhanced my fun. Many 1257 were really great for this and were interesting to explore. One castle even had this oil trap and a door that took a lot of effort to get through, had me stumped for a bit.
 
When I say amazing, I mean I park my party behind a wall and sneak all around murdering everyone (much like BL) so these quirky spawns a pathing issues just enhanced my fun. Many 1257 were really great for this and were interesting to explore. One castle even had this oil trap and a door that took a lot of effort to get through, had me stumped for a bit.
I remember one of those in Aleppo if im correct and as always I just storm the walls by myself being a one man army but thise spawn were damn funny its basically hitting your enemies from behind in vanilla
 
Bannerlord feels (at least at the moment) like a proof of concept. They likely spent years building their own engine, designing and building the mod tools, and making it all come to life. It does feel hollow for the most part as far as story and interactions go, but it seems like their priorities are solidifying the foundation on which all of that gets built. You can have an amazing, 10/10 epic story that's immersive and thrilling etc etc, but it will feel like **** when the buggy game play keeps distracting you from it. It aggravates me that there is no real immersion outside of the battlefield, but it makes sense that it would be the last thing to be put in.

On the note of the character creation and family, I don't find it all that bad but it could use a little more flexibility. If you put all the pieces together and read the small amount of flavor text, it does paint a fairly convincing backstory imo. I don't like that the younger siblings don't resemble either the MC or the eldest brother, but I am sure that will get fixed eventually.
 
But it feels like you know that already and you want to feel smart by grabbing pinchs of salt to make pointless arguemnts out of it (just like in that other thread lol). Have all the ego boost you want dude everyone else got what I meant.

What are you talking about? Anyway, someone else had the same impression as I did. It isn't even an argument, I was just pointing out where people got that impression from. If you don't like Bannerlord's plot or whatever, I don't care. I mean, it's writing in a MnB game: I'm maybe going to read it once and then never again.
 
Yes, yes it will be enough lol
got it ^^ Well we have to see what type of story they write in to your companions and other stuff. Im pretty sure the old style will come in to play in one way or the other. How deep it will go and how advance it will be...who knows

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In my opinion the story is the result of the thought that players want to be the center of the world and the literal hero as soon as possible (because they suck in normal life ...?). M+B is about becoming the top dog, so in Bannerlord you have to rebuild your clan, you can talk to kings immediately and you get relatives + a fitting albeit bland story. I'm not overly annoyed by it cause I'm used to similar "deep storytelling" from my other favorite games. I didn't want to be the Dragonborn in Skyrim or the Sole Survivor in Fallout 4 for example. Ignore the story, make your own. If you want a good, deep story, read a good book, as only in the imagination of the inexperienced there are video games with deep stories and characters available.

In Bannerlord a more varied approach to the game would have been better, of course. You could start as a humble soldier and serve a lord, maybe later you could run a mercenary company. You could be a trader and later buy yourself into kingdom stuff, using money to influence decisions. You could start as a humble noble mercenary, get a fief from your lord and develop it and ignore the rest. In Bannerlord you can more or less only enter the big politics. You can be a trader or mercenary but then most of the possible interesting gameplay is beyond your reach. I was not exactly the biggest fan of Prophesy of Pendor (because it was more story driven, not sandboxy) and will not compare to it, but compared to f.e. 1257AD or Brytenwalda, Bannerlord sucks. Like normal Warband sucked. I don't have such a problem with it, counting on mods.
 
In Bannerlord a more varied approach to the game would have been better, of course. You could start as a humble soldier and serve a lord, maybe later you could run a mercenary company. You could be a trader and later buy yourself into kingdom stuff, using money to influence decisions. You could start as a humble noble mercenary, get a fief from your lord and develop it and ignore the rest. In Bannerlord you can more or less only enter the big politics. You can be a trader or mercenary but then most of the possible interesting gameplay is beyond your reach. I was not exactly the biggest fan of Prophesy of Pendor (because it was more story driven, not sandboxy) and will not compare to it, but compared to f.e. 1257AD or Brytenwalda, Bannerlord sucks. Like normal Warband sucked. I don't have such a problem with it, counting on mods.

Well i cant agree here in some aspects but i can have misunderstood this to. Ive been rollplaying a lot in this game. Bandit, Manipulator of the court, Mercenary company, Simple soldier, King, Bandit Lord with my own castles, Trader that bought almost whole Calradia, Hero.... well you name it the list goes way on :wink:. And i felt that theres room for those types of game play to without missing anything out so to speak. Sure there was some missing features here and there due to missing perks but there is room for it...Maybe not in dialog but in mechanics
 
I am just curious about " Manipulator of the court " meaning, because the game doesn't provides many politic options at the moment.
It means to give and get the power you need to make an civil war if you wanted it. Those who are not with me are against me then whoops im the captain now! Also ment alot of dirty moves with bandits and such so Roguery lvl 5 as well as Social ofc which was the head goal along with Leadership, Stewardship, Trading and such. Money and power was the key word...and his name was Duke Kuntbert from Vladia...
Well you can also vote in things that suits your needs to so you make more money and influence also take away good things for the higher lords you want to target, then you strike when the time is right
 
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I've downloaded Prophesy of Pendor after not playing for a few years, and holy crap dude, the campaign of that mod it's so much better than Bannerlord, if you made me choose between them I would def stick with PoP. Why? Because after playing Bannerlord for some hours I feel like there is nothing else they can offer me, just the same experience but with a different color and troop type, and Bannerlord greatest problem it's the writing, or to phrase it better: the lack of writing.



One could say PoP's advantage is that they're in a magical setting where a lot of stuff can happen (such as heretics and demonic parties) and I would say, yes but partially, it's not only just the interesting lore, but how it is presented.

Let's compare how Bannerlord inserts you into the game to PoP.

In BL you create your character, and all of a sudden, you have a brother? Your parents are dead and your other siblings kidnapped? What writing is this? Don't they know giving the player a family in an RPG where you create your own story its a TERRIBLE idea? I don't care about any of these people, I don't want them in my life, what if I want to create my own story and my own background??? No, the game forces your hand to deal with these boring people and their lives, so the only way to approach the game is to be the dude with dead parents and kidnapped family, incredible writing wow 10/9.

PoP asks you who you want to be with soo numerous and well written choices, and then it throws you to the game to find your own way, instead of grabbing the players' hand to guide them in the saaaaame main quest all the time. And the choices are cool and meaningful, because you can go and be a nobody, a trader, a medic, a dude running away from bandits, and what you choose here matters, for example, I'd you start as a forgotten heir of the throne of Pendor it means you will be hated by Sarleon, you get chased by very powerful assassins and you will be hated by some Knighthoods that will make you be careful around the main map. See, now you got some variation, and the choices you've made matter and will make the game feel different, and you get the grasp of this without a single line of dialog, this is ironically better writing.



Lore pt1: Getting into the world.

The only way to get lore and an insight of the world in Bannerlord is........ The main quest. Yeah. Some information dump here, some information dump there, yeah ok, I was forced to do a tour around the world talking to Kings and Lords, and this is the funniest crap ever, because you can go as a trashy peasent, aproach a man with a 500 men army and ask nicely about the events of the world. C'mon, am I the only one who thinks this is very, very stupid? What kind of Gary Stu/Mary Sue are we that the ****ing ruler of a Kingdom will just stop what they're doing to tell us, a random dude wearing rags in the middle of the field, the current events of the world?? what were they thinking??? And that's it. There is no more "interesting" writing, unless you compare the random companions with generic stories the game even encourages you to skip interesting or even, writing. Now let's go back to PoP, there is lore everywhere, it's just all over the place, and it's not just flavor text, you can see that what you write makes sense to what you encounter in the map. You can pay 10 denars to travellers and slave traders and they will tell you stories about the world, not everything is interesting, but you can learn about knighthoods, bandits, little events, and the player feels encouraged to read these because sometimes it will lead to a treasure hunt. You can encounter Knights in taverns that will give you an insight of their Knighthoods (more on this later), you can talk with Keep servants for more stories, news and current events, and the companions, that compared to the boring and ironically repetitve, randomized but generic companions of Bannerlord, they've got good stories, Soldiers from the other side of the world, former Knights, traders, people with good stories hauling from all over the place that give you more info on what you can encounter on the world.



Lore pt2: Knighthoods vs Minor clans

Playing this make me think, man, is Taleworlds devoid of ideas? Because Knighthoods are almost the same concept, but Knighthood destroy minor clans and put them to shame.

See, minor clans are basically mercenary companies and... That's it, they're just mercenaries with flavor units, and they will go around looting towns and being part of armies and yeah that's it. Knighthoods, on the other hand have allegiances to their respective factions but not only that, they feel like they have an objective in the world other than looting towns and fighting with armies, and they aren't just some dudes with men, sometimes they're little parties chasing bandits and heretics or engaging fights with rival Knighthoods, and destroying the players if they're not careful enough (who, and who doesn't hate you it's affected on your choices when you start the game). And more key differences is that you can encounter Knights in taverns and learn more about their orders, and you can actually aid them to gain their support and access to their actually exclusive gear (afaik you can just shop minor clans gear in BL, but correct me if I'm wrong) but this will mean you'll get hated by their rivals, making the game feel dynamic and that your choices have consequences. And well, how can I forget you can actually make your own Knighthood of elite units, I mean, dude, how cool that?



Lore pt3: Bandits

Holy crap, did Bannerlord fell short in this. The amount of enemies you can encounter in PoP is amazing, bandits, sometimes rogue knights, sometimes cultists, demons, horse raiders, but they just don't exist on their own because they're accompanied by a very interesting lore you can learn about (like I've said before) talking with travellers and counselors, too! And yes, some of them are too fictional like the demons to have a counterpart of it in Bannerlord, but man, seeing massive armies of baddies ****ing up towns that require your effort to kill -to the point of gathering armies so you actually have the number to fight them -gives you a sense of grandiosity you can't even find in Bannerlord. And not only that, in early game you're a just a small turd and it SHOWS, because these parties will destroy you and the best you can do if you find parties like this is run away as fast as you can, and when you can win you feel like you deserve it, and the effort of killing them is VERY rewarding because the loot is more than great, amazing armours, gear you just can't get elsewhere, gold bars, loot boxes to sell, qualis gems... but then in Bannerlord... the worse threat you can get is a dude with rags that spawns the same in the whole map... Exciting... Instead of being an amazing encounters you need to win with effort, you just send the troops to destroy them so you can get ez crappy loot so you can forge 1000 swords and craft a bankrupt maker javelin.

There are other little details, for example, a moment where player renown matters: You can't join tournaments if you're a nobody, which means you can't cheese the prizes and money you get from tournaments in early game, but there are so many other choices it doesn't feel like it matters and in fact this improves the experience, you have to grow into being somebody, instead of grinding into being somebody
Other detail: Mercenaries in this game are cool too, there are so many variations you can find in taverns, like foreign mercenaries, or adventurers, old knights, etc.

TL,DR: PoP is a dynamic world with high attention to detail that give a replayable experience thanks to a well written and well exposed setting.

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So is this some good writing for you ? Vanilla game to add :smile: Tw you cheeky you lol
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I mean its not an novel yet but an good start.. Would be cool if there was an text that differs from each war they where active in
 
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SaxonDragon (originator of PoP mod) on asked about creating a believable and intersting backdrop World:


"We can have a whole very long and involved conversation on this.

From a fantasy world perspective, and doing it by hand, ie.. the computer does not create via procedural generation any of this for you, the trick is a few realizations.

  1. History should be told from the perspective of a character in the world with his/her own biases and informational standpoint.
  2. Characters are all flawed and will not necessarily tell the truth.
  3. As an Author, READ everything you can get your hands on regarding history, science fiction and fantasy. Throw in some mystery and horror to get exposed to plot twists.
  4. After a while you can just look at a map and imagine what is there, and from that it literally all falls into place.
Just define a culture and imagine what the people would be like, write that down and then ask "What if" questions. "What would Ulric do if he discovered his grandfather was a murderer and tarnished the family name?" Would he try to set it right or try to hide the fact? If he tried to hide it, how would he do it?

Create bone structures of your main characters and know how to project yourself into their "skin"."

~Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/dbgcfa/this_is_jim_landes_aka_saxondragon_a_founder_of/

Interesting he doesnt knock the possibility for a PoP2 for Bannerlord
 
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