Project Idea: More complicated towns

[sheek]

From the 'Detail Props' thread:

Could you guys make 'suites' of rooms with the new mod tools? So in a count's castle there are doors which lead to new 'scenes'. Eg when you first enter "Count's room" in the town menu you first come to a room with guards. Maybe you talk to them and must convince them for them to let you past (use a 'trigger'). Then you come to an 'ante-chamber' where some minor nobles, the captain of the guard, peasants looking for justice and people like that stand around. Then another door leads you to the count's main chamber, where you can meet and talk to him. Other doors from that lead to the count's bedroom, his personal armory, a banquet room, the treasury (guarded by an accountant) etc.

This would be instead of having everything, armory, bedroom, throne, etc in a single large room.

I think it's feasible. Question

By the way great work guys. I'm not going to get into this. I tried making a couple of 'scenes' but I don't have the patience for it!

Thinking about this more. Why not add rooms, scenes and people to all towns? With the new mod tools this is possible.

Eg the 'merchant' could be replaced with a big hall with lots of merchants, each one has his own stall with a curtain behind that hides the entrance to his own little shop. If you click on him and ask him to see his goods you are transported to a new 'interior' which is a shop specially for the kind of goods you want. It could be armor, it could be foods, it could be luxury goods (wine, silk, spices etc) it could be simple weapons (for commoners and ordinary soldiers) or 'fine weapons' (for nobles, higher prices). A horse seller, not very good horses that are sold to peasants and commoners.

The 'smiths' are moved to the Merchant's Hall. A blacksmith is added who repairs weapons etc (upgrade weapon quality through conversation menu, buys steel, iron etc).

The tavern is left as it is but when you buy 'rooms' (to rest) you are transported to a new scene which is a bedroom. There you have a chest where you can leave weapons. Once you leave they are still there (you still pay a small fee). This is a new advantage of resting, you can leave your things somewhere other than Zendar.

Other 'town menu' options:

A bank/treasurer, the count's man who deals with money. He gives you notes in exchange for putting down real denars. These notes are not 'seen' but put into a 'variable' which is stored in the game memory (obviously so you can't lose the money if you are beaten in a battle, it would destroy the point of the bank).

A stable master. The count's personal man who has better horses at higher prices.

An Arena/tournament field. Transported from Zendar. Area where people (merchants, nobles) watch and you can talk (chat) to. You can go into it. Wilder idea: you can talk to noblewomen in the watching area, can convince them to give you their 'colors' (a scarf or something) when you go into a tournament battle (for 'their honor'). If you win they are impressed, if they're impressed enough you can marry them (men only, sorry) and get money, a better rank, or maybe more conversation options with the count.

A chapel. A priest (use existing robes etc) who you can donate money to. This gives you no advantage but if you're a religious character and want to 'role-play' it makes you feel good. Further idea: can send you on a quest, for example to transport message to other priests, hunt down brigands who've stolen a holy item etc.

A dungeon. You can go and watch, talk to the criminals. You can get quests like the Borcha quest, a new role for characters, transport prisoners to another town - an 'exchange' of prisoners... escort an enemy noble who is given back for a ransom or in exchange for one of your side's captured nobles. Or criminals who must be taken to the High Court (the King's town) to be judged/executed. Also you can sell criminals (brigands) or enemy soldiers that you have captured to the Dungeon master. This way you don't have to wait for a quest for your captives to be useful for something. An enemy nobleman you've captured is a lot more valuable than a common brigand.

A peasant village. Not very useful but some little mud sheds where the common people live. You can go and see how they live. Maybe a few small shops with bad quality items.

What do you think?

Have you got any other ideas or comments? Stick to practical things that we know can be done with the mod tools.

I'm no good at scene editing but I'm ready to do scripting for this project if other people join. We don't have to start 'from scratch'. We can continue from the 'Detail Props' project. I think we should start with one town and see what we can do before spreading out too much.

 

[sheek]

Can a mod move this to Mod Discussion please? I got the wrong forum.

 

[okiN]

From the 'Detail Props' thread

No, it's not. It's from the Screenshots thread, which is why I said it was the wrong place for this discussion.

And even if you can add new .sco files, the resources at your disposal will be very limited since AFAIK you can't add new static objects to the game. Frankly, I don't think this idea will work very well before we either get a lot of new statics or the ability to import new ones. Otherwise all the new areas will look bland and boring.

 

[sheek]

And even if you can add new .sco files, the resources at your disposal are limited since AFAIK you can't add new map objects to the game.

You don't have to add new 'map objects'. It all works from the 'town menu'. I'm looking for a thread where somebody (I think Janus) explained how to add new 'entry points'.

 

[okiN]

sheek, meh, you replied before I managed to edit it. Read it again.

 

[sheek]

Reply to your new edit:

And even if you can add new .sco files, the resources at your disposal will be very limited since AFAIK you can't add new static objects to the game. Frankly, I don't think this idea will work very well before we either get a lot of new statics or the ability to import new ones. Otherwise all the new areas will look bland and boring.

You're right but we don't need to add new statics. The ones that exist now are easily enough. This is just an expansion of Detail Props. If/when new statics come into the game all we need to do is replace the old ones with them.

OK I'm going to stop talking and test out my idea of 'linked rooms' now.

 

[okiN]

I disagree, I don't think the current statics are enough. Even Project Detail Props is stretching it, since the designs are unavoidably quite similar. If you did this, it'd just underline the fact that everything looks more or less the same.

 

[Janus]

You don't have to add new 'map objects'. It all works from the 'town menu'. I'm looking for a thread where somebody (I think Janus) explained how to add new 'entry points'.

Wasn't me, I've never done anything more than look at entry points (though I understand basically how they work).

I'm actually playing with trying to add a new scene in now using the official Module Builder, a 2nd arena specifically.

 

[sheek]

Possibility #1

From game_menus.py:

# Towns
(
"zendar",mnf_auto_enter,
"You enter the town of Zendar.",
"none",
[[reset_price_rates],[set_price_rate_for_item,"itm_tools",70],[set_price_rate_for_item,"itm_salt",140]],
[
("zendar_enter",[],"Enter Marketplace",[[set_jump_mission,"mt_town_default"],[jump_to_scene,"scn_zendar_center"],[change_screen_mission]]),
("zendar_tavern",[],"Visit the tavern.",[[set_jump_mission,"mt_town_default"],
[jump_to_scene,"scn_the_happy_boar"],
[change_screen_mission]]),
("zendar_merchant",[],"Visit the merchant.",[[set_jump_mission,"mt_town_default"],
[jump_to_scene,"scn_zendar_merchant"],
[change_screen_mission]]),

[Solution: Zendar main town seems to be a basic 'exterior' scene [scene_zendar_center.scn]. Treat the individual starting off interior scenes of a town (eg the count's body guard room) as 'exteriors' in which there are buildings and you start off inside without any way of getting out (so a player can't tell the difference). Replace the [jump_to_scene]'s with the paths of new interior scenes (eg the count's throne room).]

[This is wrong... all the script after Zendar_Centar is useless because 'auto-entry' is used for Zendar. It's a menu you never see, the first option is always automatically selected]

Possibility #2

From module_scenes.py:

# 9) List of other scenes accessible from this scene {list of strings}. You can travel between scenes by placing passages in edit mode.
# The passage's variation-no is used with this list for selecting which scene it will lead to.
[...]
("tihr_smithy",sf_indoors,"thirsty_lion", "bo_thirsty_lion", (-100,-100),(100,100),-100,"0",
["exit"],[]),


Solution: after "exit" of tihr_smithy, put another 'option' of [tihr_smithys_store_room] which you've created a new .sco and 'variation number' for.

 

[sheek]

The second option is easiest. All you need to do is add 'passages', find out the 'variation number' of each passage and put down where it leads to in the right order in the module_scenes.py info for that interior. I'll try to get a working example of it up.

 

[Janus]

Looks like you're catching on pretty quick there, and thanks for sharing.

Since I'm just attempting to add a new arena scene, I only have to link to it in one spot of the dialogs, so it's simpler than what you're doing. Kinda strange most of the arena setup is done attached directly to dialog, as a side note.

ID_scenes and module_scenes, as you've obviously deducted, are the main things needed to edit to point to a new SCO file.

EDIT: Actually, it seems like you don't need to edit ID_scenes after all from my testing. No idea what those numbers are for. Adding in new scenes is definitely possible, since I just edited the second arena ingame and have some arena battles go to one, some go to the other. Now I just need a decent arena done by someone who's more into working on in-game scene editing. Ah, the possibilities.

 

[Ryuta]

That's a cool idea.

How about making a shole town like Zendar, and you can have a choice of walking through the streets or navigating through menu?

When you enter a town, you're shown a screen to choose where you want to go. There's a buttom called 'City Gate'. When you click, you're transported to the gate, just like in Zendar. You can wander around the city talking NPC or so. Each facility in town can be accessed through doors, just like Zendar Merchant and Happy Boar Inn.
when you exit through the door, you go to street. When you press Tab key (in shop and on street), you're greeted by Nav Screen (the one that says 'Go to X').

Sorry for not explain properly but what do you think?

 

[sheek]

How about making a shole town like Zendar, and you can have a choice of walking through the streets or navigating through menu?

When you enter a town, you're shown a screen to choose where you want to go. There's a buttom called 'City Gate'. When you click, you're transported to the gate, just like in Zendar. You can wander around the city talking NPC or so. Each facility in town can be accessed through doors, just like Zendar Merchant and Happy Boar Inn.
when you exit through the door, you go to street. When you press Tab key (in shop and on street), you're greeted by Nav Screen (the one that says 'Go to X').

Sure that's possible.

What would take the most time would be scripting and creating the different NPCs. I know you're getting into the 'background' or Zendar Ryuta. Maybe you could come up with some ideas for that.

With the team that did Detail Props, a few conversation.txt editors and someone doing the background we should quickly be able to bring the towns alive.

 

[sheek]

EDIT: Actually, it seems like you don't need to edit ID_scenes after all from my testing. No idea what those numbers are for. Adding in new scenes is definitely possible, since I just edited the second arena ingame and have some arena battles go to one, some go to the other. Now I just need a decent arena done by someone who's more into working on in-game scene editing. Ah, the possibilities. Wink

Yes you don't need to edit ID_scenes. In fact Armagan says to leave that alone, it's hard-coded for the game.