Problem with throwing weapons in melee combat - they are too strong.

[Zdzichu]

Throwing meta has been going on for several weeks now. Heavy infantry has been useless for several months. Even after reducing the number of throwing weapons
I don't see the return of heavy infantry to favor. Throwing spear/pila is too universal. Throwing weapon's melee damage is too high compared to spears.



For those less familiar with mechanics; that's not just 5 damage. it's 5 x speed bonus x head/neck shot modifier = the difference is huge + The problem is that they not only deal more damage and are faster, but are more fun to play because they bounce less frequently.

suggestion nr 1. increase spear damage and reduce the risk of bouncing off the enemy - it's problematic because we don't want spear meta, a cavalry that is already very strong would gain even more
suggestion nr 2. reduce the damage of throwing weapon at melee

 

[gorNN]

You are right Zdzichu ! Good point !

 

[Einarcf]

Best meta. Would do it more if I played inf

 

[flashn00b]

In defense of the Ash Throwing Spear specifically, you have to remember that the Brigand has a crippling downside called "Severe punishment to the point of unplayability if you die as this unit"

Trying to melee with a pila or any javelin just seems like a deathwish to me since 155 reach isn't nearly enough to stab a horse before eating a lance or kontos to the face and due to javelins only having the thrusting attacks, you'll die pretty quickly to nearly every 1-handed weapon in the game

 

[Roadpork]

normal melee game design: melee op, then nerf them patch by patch until it's on a good position
BL melee game design: melee useless, then go random balancing

 

[dirtshrimp]

Its not that hard to dodge/block. Plenty of ways to avoid throwing weapons if you are paying attention.

 

[Ikea Knight]

It's not only too strong it's most importantly not fun.

Getting one shot by a nuke is so damn random and unsatisfactory compared to loosing in melee.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

The problem is the lack of stun on polearms, it's much more noticeable on melee javs because they are shorter so are easier to spam, but it's also the cause of spears being broken if you even touch the glancing at all such as in beta.

Add a stun a la Warband. This issue has already been fixed, melee javs could never be broken in Warband.

 

[Zoonanay]

Its not that hard to dodge/block. Plenty of ways to avoid throwing weapons if you are paying attention.

A good player will wait for you to be distracted, then nuke you with the death stick. You can't keep attention split two ways forever.

 

[Einarcf]

This is a discussion what happens when you press "x" on throwing weapons

 

[Tiedemannj]

I have this pet peeve about trowing spears in this game. A trown spear should in any and all cases have less kinetic energy than a spear that is being thrust. As a spear is thrust the wielder keeps pushing the spear deeper, but a trown spear will stop when out of energy. Spears in this game does about 15-20 dmg (given no glance which is another problem with spears) if held, but the same spear, if trown, hitting the same spot, on the same guy will do 80-130 dmg.

I get that it's a balancing thing, since trowing your weapon would be a very risky choice and should come with some reward. I'm not trowing my hat into the balancing ring since I'm too bad to give balancing advice, but from a realism standpoint it makes less than no sense.

 

[Sikkimoto]

Remember when Taleworlds said they developed weapon stats based on real physics?

 

[FearSpear]

A trown spear should in any and all cases have less kinetic energy than a spear that is being thrust. As a spear is thrust the wielder keeps pushing the spear deeper, but a trown spear will stop when out of energy. Spears in this game does about 15-20 dmg (given no glance which is another problem with spears) if held, but the same spear, if trown, hitting the same spot, on the same guy will do 80-130 dmg

Actually it's about the same in terms of initial impact, with a thrown weapon that involves complete windup of the body actually hitting a little bit harder in terms of initial impact. A spear thrust is quicker and involves less force than winding up all the muscles to chuck a spear and therefore even though force can be applied after the contact with a spear thrust, the initial impact is slightly in the thrown spear's favor. That being said, we shouldn't have one hit death sticks on classes that have shields or can be spawned three times.

 

[Roadpork]

Remember when Taleworlds said they developed weapon stats based on real physics?

for sure in real life when we throw something, that will delay 0.5 sec then shot out from our mouth

 

[Roadpork]

things devs forgot:
1. we don't care how accurate our enemy is(that's their business). we care about how we can handle it.
2. in FPS games (pretty sure they follow some FPS designing experience). ppl handle it by "hiding"
3. in a melee game, you can't do both at the same time: "hiding" + "playing this fk damn game"

conclusion: melee design is mean to prevent ppl to play this game.

 

[Medivhtratos]

1.Sry but in fact this is a range+melee game, I mean archers? Crossbowmen? Skirmishers? Horse Archers?
2.I think the high dmg value is because of the low ammunition compared to arrows or bolts ( also the flying speed and reach is far from a bow of course)
3. You have 1hit two handers but a 1hit =>1ammo=>pila is just to strong?(Compared with the legendary "AWP" in CSS this is nothing, yeah i know "just a ranged game, no knifes")

Also a fact, I haven´t spend much time on multiplayer since your character movement is just to slow compared with sp.
=> Maybe a overall higher movementstat for footsoldiers would solve your problem.


And with @FearSpear I fully agree.

 

[arockstar2]

=> Maybe a overall higher movementstat for footsoldiers would solve your problem.


And with @FearSpear I fully agree.

I could definitely get behind a slight universal foot speed buff. They slowed down most units a few patches ago, and it’s felt like I’m running through quicksand ever since.

 

[drontrixsepta]

. A trown spear should in any and all cases have less kinetic energy than a spear that is being thrust.

lmao do you also think that poking enemy with arrows in melee would me more powerfull then shooting them from bow?
Why do you think bullets have so much impact? Speed of missle combined with mass of missle is a source of impact force

 

[Sral23]

Trying to melee with a pila or any javelin just seems like a deathwish to me since 155 reach isn't nearly enough to stab a horse before eating a lance or kontos to the face and due to javelins only having the thrusting attacks, you'll die pretty quickly to nearly every 1-handed weapon in the game

if you have an ash throwing spear and get killed by a kontos wielding guy you kinda deserve it

 

[Tiedemannj]

lmao do you also think that poking enemy with arrows in melee would me more powerfull then shooting them from bow?
Why do you think bullets have so much impact? Speed of missle combined with mass of missle is a source of impact force

This is not the same. Arrows and bullets are trown by an external mechanism that is stronger than a human trow. The spear is trown by the same movement as the spear is thrust.

If trowing spears used an atlatl it would be comperable.