Prison breaks are AWFUL

[Nalgasucia507]

that codepiece is already in the game and halfes the releationship pentality of execution, if the victim has not the honorable trait. So it does what you want. But as it is not satisfying enough i think you ask of a crime rating modell similar the player has already, because in this modell even Lords think about execution(at least against the player).

Dope. Thank you. Yea, it is not satisfying enough first because it is not explained to us by the game, second the latter model would fit better, and lords executing other lords should also be put into effect.

 

[Calabanar]

Thank you for educating us!

Well, I expect something more fleshed out than a check fora single trait, that's basically it.

 

[StaceMcGate]

If only the AI didn't try to fight it'd be bearable (the charm and roguery rewards are really nice) but currently you can't expect a successful prison
break without save scumming.

AI guards will prioritize the prisoner, who will die in 2-3 hits even on easiest difficulty, and the prisoner will often run ahead of the player to engage the guards. Change it so the prisoner is a passive NPC or the player is fighting their way to their cell to release them.

 

[Lesbosisles]

If only the AI didn't try to fight it'd be bearable (the charm and roguery rewards are really nice) but currently you can't expect a successful prison
break without save scumming.

AI guards will prioritize the prisoner, who will die in 2-3 hits even on easiest difficulty, and the prisoner will often run ahead of the player to engage the guards. Change it so the prisoner is a passive NPC or the player is fighting their way to their cell to release them.

We need a quest for saving a relative/friend from a prison. It'll make much more sense then.

 

[StaceMcGate]

We need a quest for saving a relative/friend from a prison. It'll make much more sense then.

Yeah, there should be a quest similar to that, but like I said, prison breaks need adjusting to not be so luck-of-the-draw. They would be a nightmare on Ironman where the prisoner just runs at the nearest guard ahead of you and dies in one hit.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I've Only done a few on 1.6, but it seemed they might be worse now. It seemed like the guards are in a more aggressive position at the start and they seemed to pull out blunt clubs (negating my brigandine vest). Could just be coincidence.

Yeah, there should be a quest similar to that, but like I said, prison breaks need adjusting to not be so luck-of-the-draw. They would be a nightmare on Ironman where the prisoner just runs at the nearest guard ahead of you and dies in one hit.

Yeah, and the prisoner can die too! I didn't attempt any in ironman mode, nor would I. Iron man is a dud IME. Ads nothing but minor inconvenience and discouragement of trying any janky stuff.

 

[Agroplode]

I have been testing Roguery in 1.6.0 and how fast it levels etc.

I have been doing Prison Breaks from start, without first leveling weapon skill and athletics and throwing skill to acceptable minimums. At first I blamed my athletics because who ever I try to rescue runs faster than me. Its been a lot of retries, out of perhaps 10+ Prison Breaks I might have really done 40 or 50 with reloading. This is only counting neutral Towns and not counting the hostile Towns and the many "Surrenders".

But then I started noticing during the reload that the guards change, sometimes they are lower tiers and other times higher tiers and sometimes there is a legionary. I am guessing that the guards are from a pool of the garrison, which is okay but just like I have left my heavy armor outside, would a heavy infantry guy not wear something more comfortable inside a prison? Why do I have to fight the top tier troops in their best gear with my upgraded Looter outfit

The Aserai Town Husn Fulq had 5 Aserai Palace Guards! The prisoner survived less than 10 sec, he ran into the first Guard and died in one hit, I survived because I got lucky and killed the first Guard and used his axe to get out. The Guards could not hit me when I was hiding in the corner of the doorway, so I took minimal damage and survived with 5% or so health. They mostly hit the door frame and each other.

The amount of Armor and Damage and Skill these top tier Guards bring is an unfair advantage. My Civilian weapons are never going to be a match for that kind of armor and there is no armor in Calradia that can protect me from the Executioners Axe or the blunt damage of the Calradian Mace.

I did not reload that particular prison break ?

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I have been testing Roguery in 1.6.0 and how fast it levels etc.

I have been doing Prison Breaks from start, without first leveling weapon skill and athletics and throwing skill to acceptable minimums. At first I blamed my athletics because who ever I try to rescue runs faster than me. Its been a lot of retries, out of perhaps 10+ Prison Breaks I might have really done 40 or 50 with reloading. This is only counting neutral Towns and not counting the hostile Towns and the many "Surrenders".

But then I started noticing during the reload that the guards change, sometimes they are lower tiers and other times higher tiers and sometimes there is a legionary. I am guessing that the guards are from a pool of the garrison, which is okay but just like I have left my heavy armor outside, would a heavy infantry guy not wear something more comfortable inside a prison? Why do I have to fight the top tier troops in their best gear with my upgraded Looter outfit

The Aserai Town Husn Fulq had 5 Aserai Palace Guards! The prisoner survived less than 10 sec, he ran into the first Guard and died in one hit, I survived because I got lucky and killed the first Guard and used his axe to get out. The Guards could not hit me when I was hiding in the corner of the doorway, so I took minimal damage and survived with 5% or so health. They mostly hit the door frame and each other.

The amount of Armor and Damage and Skill these top tier Guards bring is an unfair advantage. My Civilian weapons are never going to be a match for that kind of armor and there is no armor in Calradia that can protect me from the Executioners Axe or the blunt damage of the Calradian Mace.

I did not reload that particular prison break ?

One tip just for gaining roguery skill, you can just fail the prison break in a neutral fief and they just kick you out, you don't get taken prisoner or lose anything (but hp) and you get a good chunk of skill still. The one thing to watch out for though is the prisoner can be killed in the combat.

This is no way meant as saying prison breaks are good or okay because of this, I'm just saying it relives some frustration to not re-load nad just take partial exp and move on.

 

[Lesbosisles]

This is only counting neutral Towns and not counting the hostile Towns and the many "Surrenders".

Speaking of "Surrenders"... @Duh_TaleWorlds, I am not sure if you are the right person to ask about it (since I am still unaware of your scope of work here, lol), but are there any plans to add the "Run" feature as it was on Warband? I'm talking about the city breakout, when you were spotted during the infiltration. Would've been nice to have an opportunity to escape the city instead of instant surrender without the second option. Especially, taking into account that the success chance is pretty low even with Rougery 165 - about 40-45%

 

[kreamy]

Just the order menu would help with just 3-4 orders. Attack, stop, follow me and move to position.

too complex

 

[YossarianOnATree]

Started two new playthroughs on 1.7 launch. As a non-rogue, non-two hander character, prison breaks are a cool system to murder lords without losing honor, and pretty much nothing more

 

[Lesbosisles]

Started two new playthroughs on 1.7 launch. As a non-rogue, non-two hander character, prison breaks are a cool system to murder lords without losing honor, and pretty much nothing more

They've become a little bit better since the time I started this topic, yet, there's not much of use for them now (killing lords is a bug). I still don't understand why do we have a prison break system, but don't have at the very least a quest to get someone's relative out of the dungeon for money.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I still don't understand why do we have a prison break system, but don't have at the very least a quest to get someone's relative out of the dungeon for money.

Yeah it's something missed from warband for sure. As is it's just for farming roguery and charm, you actually will get even more charm if you succeed then roguery . But of course dumping money and re-loads to do this is questionable anyways as charm is easy to raise anyways and roguery is not very helpful. Now I've done a **** tun of prisoner breaks and got 150 roguery from them on at least 4 character lately, but they still feel crappy because say there's 5 guards, you kill 4 of them skillfully then the 5th 1 shots you... that's just crappy gameplay and is juts part of TW not doing any quality control on damage in the game in general. If this is really how they want it they need to add more civ armor and weapons and either change the weapons guards can have or actually balance and design damage calculations. I really hate how weapons damage you from close to the handle too, it's really bad and under mines the point of having long and short weapons. Also getting damaged by the outside of a swing when on the enemies side or rear , like really maybe *1* damage if you must TW but you are not getting touched by the weapon and magically exploding from it.

It's such a weird thing that gets in it's own way so much. Like if I WANT to just do them to get charm and roguery I have to go way out of my way search border towns and even use a merc contract to put my own prisoner in a low security prison and then drop contract and bust them out. If they're gong to have the AI put all prisoners in nearest fief they should get rid of 1 week cooldown so we can actually do that many prison breaks if we want. If we actually do them the way TW seems to think, they completely useless.

 

[niekdegrijze]

Yeah it's something missed from warband for sure. As is it's just for farming roguery and charm, you actually will get even more charm if you succeed then roguery . But of course dumping money and re-loads to do this is questionable anyways as charm is easy to raise anyways and roguery is not very helpful. Now I've done a **** tun of prisoner breaks and got 150 roguery from them on at least 4 character lately, but they still feel crappy because say there's 5 guards, you kill 4 of them skillfully then the 5th 1 shots you... that's just crappy gameplay and is juts part of TW not doing any quality control on damage in the game in general. If this is really how they want it they need to add more civ armor and weapons and either change the weapons guards can have or actually balance and design damage calculations. I really hate how weapons damage you from close to the handle too, it's really bad and under mines the point of having long and short weapons. Also getting damaged by the outside of a swing when on the enemies side or rear , like really maybe *1* damage if you must TW but you are not getting touched by the weapon and magically exploding from it.

It's such a weird thing that gets in it's own way so much. Like if I WANT to just do them to get charm and roguery I have to go way out of my way search border towns and even use a merc contract to put my own prisoner in a low security prison and then drop contract and bust them out. If they're gong to have the AI put all prisoners in nearest fief they should get rid of 1 week cooldown so we can actually do that many prison breaks if we want. If we actually do them the way TW seems to think, they completely useless.

I could forgive a lot of prison break shortcomings if there was a quick retry button. Be honest, I believe everyone reloads anyway, why not make it more convenient

 

[five bucks]

Started two new playthroughs on 1.7 launch. As a non-rogue, non-two hander character, prison breaks are a cool system to murder lords without losing honor, and pretty much nothing more

You also gain relation with the clan of the noble you free, you gain charm, get a little bit of fighting XP, and you can get nobles out of prison so you get more allies out leading parties, or talk to them for a quest. And it's a challenging fight that adds variety to gameplay. Seems like something more to me!

Prison breaks are a good feature, they just need a few numbers tweaks, e.g. making your Roguery skill make the bribe much cheaper.

Many of the other issues aren't actually the fault of the prison breaks but actually with the game's other systems; prison break combat is unsatisfying because armor and civilian weapons need to be improved, gaining Roguery XP doesn't seem that good because the skill needs to be buffed in usefulness.

 

[Lesbosisles]

Prison breaks are a good feature, they just need a few numbers tweaks, e.g. making your Roguery skill make the bribe much cheaper.

First thing they need to do is to add back b the ability to escape if you are recognizer by the guards. I could come up with a few ideas, but the most simple thing they could do is to add Rougery perk for that or make i the escape possible by default.

It really annoys me to save scum until I get into the city because my chance is something like 20% or so. With the maxed out Rougery skill the numbers are higher, but if your renown is high, you'll have better odds shooting craps with Satan, rather than get into a city unnoticed.

Also in WB we had to break through the town with the prisoner, now the escape is deemed to be successful upon reaching the dungeon's gate. I liked the city escape stage and it is sad that they removed it.

 

[five bucks]

First thing they need to do is to add back b the ability to escape if you are recognizer by the guards. I could come up with a few ideas, but the most simple thing they could do is to add Rougery perk for that or make i the escape possible by default.

100% agree that fighting your way out needs to come back, and yeah make it possible by default. It's more fun being able to fight your way out than just being thrown in the dungeon because you failed the RNG.

It really annoys me to save scum until I get into the city because my chance is something like 20% or so. With the maxed out Rougery skill the numbers are higher, but if your renown is high, you'll have better odds shooting craps with Satan, rather than get into a city unnoticed.

Ya Roguery needs to offset your detection chance more.

Also in WB we had to break through the town with the prisoner, now the escape is deemed to be successful upon reaching the dungeon's gate. I liked the city escape stage and it is sad that they removed it.

I think TW said they don't have the ability yet to do fights in town scenes properly.

 

[Lesbosisles]

I think TW said they don't have the ability yet to do fights in town scenes properly.

Yet, we have "Rival gang" quests with town scenes fighting stuff... And personally, I cannot remember such statement from them, but then again, I might easily miss it.

 

[niekdegrijze]

100% agree that fighting your way out needs to come back, and yeah make it possible by default. It's more fun being able to fight your way out than just being thrown in the dungeon because you failed the RNG.

Ya Roguery needs to offset your detection chance more.

I think TW said they don't have the ability yet to do fights in town scenes properly.

the mod fourbery adds multiple fight scenes to different town scenes. I think it is not a technical issue.

 

[Bashar]

And here I was thinking it was some mod messing with my prison breaks and making me fight Sturgian armored behemoths 2-3 at a time with my civilian gear.
So I was returning from a break, got some nice mods and was actually starting to like the game. Until I decided to free the lady I wanted to marry from prison. I had like 15 failed attempts (not to mention the save scumming during city infiltration) and I started thinking that something was obviously wrong here. I mean, I'm not the worst of the fighters, I can easily win a duel with any NPC or trooper, but taking out 2 tier 4-5 guys in a corridor with limited maneuverability at once? Or 3? I even had a couple of times 4 of them were just waiting in the last room.
I launched the game without mods and started an absolutely fresh campaign for the clear result. Same crap. Then I started googling for the possible solution and came to this tread. Well... What can I say after studying it. That's the last time I ever bought anything from TW.