Prison breaks are AWFUL

[vertibird]

I wanted to join Aserai faction but they said the king is held captive in a castle, I went to that castle but there was no option to enter the castle other than sieging it. How can I rescue King from prison?

 

[madnessario]

I've read that but I was referring to the details. Allow me to contribute some ideas:

Prison Break

How I'd build it would be somewhat along the lines of attacking hideouts. We camp outside the city until nightfall and then we start from outside the city gate and the lower the rogue points, the more guards there will be. (Is there a point to crouching? What about sound? Does gear have a "sound" quality? Like perhaps Suede boots produce 0 sound but Plate Lamellar Boots produce 10 sound and the more overall sound value you have, the easier it is to attract attention.)

The objective would then be for the player to attempt to break into the city (scale the walls, do a lockpicking mini game, bend the bars, bribe etc using Control, Rogue, Vigor or Charm attributes/skills respectively) and then either fight their way to the prison or sneak there.

Additional things I'd add are the chance to start fires and/or other distractions.


Rebellion

A more complete version would include consequences. For e.g on capturing a town, the player could be confronted by representatives from the neighbouring kingdoms along the lines of "Hey that's a nice town you have there. A pity if someone were to ransack it".Or "Thanks for liberating MY town. I'd like to have it back."

And refusal will naturally lead to war. That'd force the player to either sell the town, give it up, join a faction or go to war.

Without these consequences, a player can slowly conquer the whole map without having to defend their possessions.


Diplomacy (Campaign vs Sandbox)

In Campaign, we have the back story from the Folly quest. Vlandians betrayed the Empire etc etc but we don't see the grudges play out.

Why doesn't Mesui seek revenge? I can't remember the rest of the story because it's so forgettable. Make it affect how the game initially starts out and it'll be more memorable. Introduce some options to the main quest where we can choose to help patch up misunderstandings or relations. Or even trigger a civil war in Aserai because of that feud.

Otherwise, what's the point of the story?


Food/starvation

That seems to be something TW is fixated on - having a constant boom/bust cycle. It's very annoying from a player's stand point. I put good troops in my garrison with the full intent that it'll be there where I need it. Having troops starve and desert because of some mechanics that the player has absolutely no control over isn't good design. There are many ways around this:

1. Kingdom Policy - The spice must flow - caravans from hostile factions are free from molestation and as such, they will continue trading uninterrupted.

2. Dynamic values for orchards, make it a function of prosperity so as prosperity increases, so does food production. You can set limits so prosperity will approach 0 gain without causing starvation.

3. Allow players to provide food separately for the town and for the garrison. Towns can be done via quests. Say give x amounts of food and gain y amount of town loyalty. So even during starvation, the town would not rebel because we'd have quests that would give temp boost to loyalty. And a stash for garrisons so we can just dump lots and lots of food there.

You are making some nice suggestions, kudos!
Scene interaction should be high on the list, it's a shame that we almost never see them.

 

[czarny]

I wanted to join Aserai faction but they said the king is held captive in a castle, I went to that castle but there was no option to enter the castle other than sieging it. How can I rescue King from prison?

You can't sneak into castle. Only siege left. Prison break works only in towns

 

[vertibird]

You can't sneak into castle. Only siege left. Prison break works only in towns

Thanks!

 

[Death2Tyrants]

You are making some nice suggestions, kudos!
Scene interaction should be high on the list, it's a shame that we almost never see them.

Thank you. Too bad it's not getting picked up.

 

[Death2Tyrants]

Relations, blood feuds and executions

Each noble should have a separate relations tracker so scenarios like Romeo and Juliet become possible. Make it so that when you do something against/for clan member X, the relations impact is 100% for X and as a percentage of clan member Y's relations to X. So if Y has 0 relations with X, then Y would not care what you do against X but if Y has 100 relations with X, then Y will get impacted 100%. Conversely, if Y hates X then Y ought to like you more.

Blood feuds should be a thing. And it should be an inheritable value so if X hates you, child of X hates you the same. Now when nobles with -100 relations fight, the winning side ought to consider executing the loser.

I feel executions ought to be more frequent. As it stands, it's a useless mechanic. To balance it, losers ought to bargain for their lives...or try to flee more. Now they just fight even when the power imbalance is super great.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Relations, blood feuds and executions

Each noble should have a separate relations tracker so scenarios like Romeo and Juliet become possible....

Blood feuds should be a thing. And it should be an inheritable value so if X hates you, child of X hates you the same. Now when nobles with -100 relations fight, the winning side ought to consider executing the loser.

I feel executions ought to be more frequent. As it stands, it's a useless mechanic. To balance it, losers ought to bargain for their lives...or try to flee more. Now they just fight even when the power imbalance is super great.

1. No, I think Clan wide relations is good overall. They could do so much more with it.'
2. Clan relation level allows for that.
3. Yes

 

[five bucks]

I feel executions ought to be more frequent. As it stands, it's a useless mechanic.

In the hands of the player it's not useless, it lets you kill off lords who are a pain in your ass, and to do a murdering prick playthrough if you want.

 

[Death2Tyrants]

1. No, I think Clan wide relations is good overall. They could do so much more with it.'
2. Clan relation level allows for that.
3. Yes

Well...for 1, let's agree to disagree. I don't like the whole clan sharing the same feelings. It ruins immersion imo.

2. Please elaborate?

 

[Death2Tyrants]

In the hands of the player it's not useless, it lets you kill off lords who are a pain in your ass, and to do a murdering prick playthrough if you want.

At such cost though. Everyone suddenly hates you. I think that's broken. Executions should be common place. Only close relations would get angered by it.

Everyone else would barely blink an eye. It would be nice if you meet another lord and he'd say "Heard you killed so and so...he had it coming!"

 

[Magello]

1. No, I think Clan wide relations is good overall. They could do so much more with it.'
2. Clan relation level allows for that.
3. Yes

I have been thinking the entire clan relations system has been really wasted so far. I would love for them to have clan and individual relations but using just clan is fine if they really expanded the relationship system. They need to have real rivals and friendships which are dynamically earned.

If you are constantly fighting with a clan they should seek out your caravans, businesses, and settlements to raid and just be a pest. If they are in your clan they would chose to not assist you if you needed help.

The same for a clan who you are friends with, they will come to your settlements to help out, drop off food to a struggling settlement, and would try to free any of your clan if they are prisoners.

Just adding something small like this, and if they already have it, turn up the frequency by by 5x, would really change clan dynamics and could really bring a living feeling to the clans.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

At such cost though. Everyone suddenly hates you. I think that's broken. Executions should be common place. Only close relations would get angered by it.

Everyone else would barely blink an eye. It would be nice if you meet another lord and he'd say "Heard you killed so and so...he had it coming!"

+1

Well...for 1, let's agree to disagree. I don't like the whole clan sharing the same feelings. It ruins immersion imo.

2. Please elaborate?

Sure, I agree to disagree with you. On 2nd, since the child of the dude you beheaded is normally on the same clan, the hate will carry over by the entire clan hating you.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

I have been thinking the entire clan relations system has been really wasted so far. I would love for them to have clan and individual relations but using just clan is fine if they really expanded the relationship system. They need to have real rivals and friendships which are dynamically earned.

If you are constantly fighting with a clan they should seek out your caravans, businesses, and settlements to raid and just be a pest. If they are in your clan they would chose to not assist you if you needed help.

The same for a clan who you are friends with, they will come to your settlements to help out, drop off food to a struggling settlement, and would try to free any of your clan if they are prisoners.

Just adding something small like this, and if they already have it, turn up the frequency by by 5x, would really change clan dynamics and could really bring a living feeling to the clans.

+1

 

[five bucks]

At such cost though. Everyone suddenly hates you. I think that's broken.

I totally agree that needs to change. There should be more of a threshold for "acceptable" executions-- if you execute someone who is considered evil or has clearly overstepped their boundaries, then only their clan should be angered at you. The more executions you do, the more the relation penalty should rise exponentially, but it should start off low.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

I totally agree that needs to change. There should be more of a threshold for "acceptable" executions-- if you execute someone who is considered evil or has clearly overstepped their boundaries, then only their clan should be angered at you. The more executions you do, the more the relation penalty should rise exponentially, but it should start off low.

That's where execution's response from other clans/lords should tie in with the traits system. Kinda obvious really.

 

[Medivhtratos]

That's where execution's response from other clans/lords should tie in with the traits system. Kinda obvious really.

Aha. RIP Relationshipmodel than? Its not so obvious or easy as you think.

 

[Calabanar]

Aha. RIP Relationshipmodel than? Its not so obvious or easy as you think.

No? It would obviously be a mix of both.

Probably with a base relationship loss with all those that had positive relations with the executed, and then bonuses or maluses depending on the traits. So if you execute a lord with honourable and merciful trait, people are NOT going to like you (for good reason), while if you execute a cruel, deceiving lord who also happens to have raided your village for the 5th time in 2 months... you should lose less relation points.

 

[Medivhtratos]

No? It would obviously be a mix of both.

Probably with a base relationship loss with all those that had positive relations with the executed, and then bonuses or maluses depending on the traits. So if you execute a lord with honourable and merciful trait, people are NOT going to like you (for good reason), while if you execute a cruel, deceiving lord who also happens to have raided your village for the 5th time in 2 months... you should lose less relation points.

隐藏: Read some code

if (actionDetail == KillCharacterAction.KillCharacterActionDetail.Executed && killer == Hero.MainHero && victim.Clan != null && !victim.Clan.IsNeutralClan)
            {
                if (victim.GetTraitLevel(DefaultTraits.Honor) < 0)
                {
                    using (List<Hero>.Enumerator enumerator = Hero.All.GetEnumerator())
                    {
                        while (enumerator.MoveNext())
                        {
                            Hero hero = enumerator.Current;
                            if (!hero.IsHumanPlayerCharacter && hero.IsAlive && hero != victim && hero.Clan != null && (!hero.IsNoble || hero.Clan.Leader == hero))
                            {
                                if (hero.Clan == victim.Clan)
                                {
                                    ChangeRelationAction.ApplyPlayerRelation(hero, -30, true, true);
                                }
                                else if (victim.IsFriend(hero))
                                {
                                    ChangeRelationAction.ApplyPlayerRelation(hero, -15, true, hero.IsNoble);
                                }
                                else if (hero.MapFaction == victim.MapFaction && hero.CharacterObject.Occupation == Occupation.Lord)
                                {
                                    ChangeRelationAction.ApplyPlayerRelation(hero, -5, true, hero.IsNoble);
                                }
                            }

 

[Nalgasucia507]

隐藏: Read some code

if (actionDetail == KillCharacterAction.KillCharacterActionDetail.Executed && killer == Hero.MainHero && victim.Clan != null && !victim.Clan.IsNeutralClan)
            {
                if (victim.GetTraitLevel(DefaultTraits.Honor) < 0)
                {
                    using (List<Hero>.Enumerator enumerator = Hero.All.GetEnumerator())
                    {
                        while (enumerator.MoveNext())
                        {
                            Hero hero = enumerator.Current;
                            if (!hero.IsHumanPlayerCharacter && hero.IsAlive && hero != victim && hero.Clan != null && (!hero.IsNoble || hero.Clan.Leader == hero))
                            {
                                if (hero.Clan == victim.Clan)
                                {
                                    ChangeRelationAction.ApplyPlayerRelation(hero, -30, true, true);
                                }
                                else if (victim.IsFriend(hero))
                                {
                                    ChangeRelationAction.ApplyPlayerRelation(hero, -15, true, hero.IsNoble);
                                }
                                else if (hero.MapFaction == victim.MapFaction && hero.CharacterObject.Occupation == Occupation.Lord)
                                {
                                    ChangeRelationAction.ApplyPlayerRelation(hero, -5, true, hero.IsNoble);
                                }
                            }

Please educate us why it is not that simple. If you please, just translate that piece of code for us.

 

[Medivhtratos]

Please educate us why it is not that simple. If you please, just translate that piece of code for us.

that codepiece is already in the game and halfes the releationship pentality of execution, if the victim has not the honorable trait. So it does what you want. But as it is not satisfying enough i think you ask of a crime rating modell similar the player has already, because in this modell even Lords think about execution(at least against the player).