Prices on javelins etc

[Nickname]

One of the things I really dislike in the game is the price of javelins. Historically and logically, what you throw at the enemy cannot be very expensive, otherwise you'll go broke very quickly (ask looters). But at the moment, some set of javelins is worth 20 warhorses, and that's ridiculous. Can you imagine a payload for a catapult to be more expensive than a pile of dinars of the same weight? That is, it would be more profitable to melt these dinars into huge ingots and launch them from a catapult.

fanbois someone will object - "But for this price you get an endless supply of javelins, it's a good idea and right balance!"

No its not. Unfortunately, this is the case when one nonsense(nondepletable arrows) is "balanced" with another nonsense(cosmic price). Of course they must be waaaay cheaper and sold in large quantities. And you must manage arrows/javelins for yourself, and actually for your party. We are not buying a single endless unit of grain for 50,000 dinars, aren't we? So why is the situation with ammo like that? Make them count arrows! It will limit archer spam, open opportunities for interesting perks, create jobs in cities and all that.

fanbois someone will object - "Developers are busy with important things, they have no time for your stupid ideas!"

Well, I don’t give a damn if they don’t read this at all.. For this month I have lost faith in the team

 

[Nakh]

Well, this situation have very nice side effect, allowing player to craft some 70 000 + gold javelins from 1 iron and 1 wood.

Joke. Both things is not very nice.

 

[Pejot]

Actually it's a nice idea to add managing arrows supply for army. It could create some new opportunities like having to turn back from campaign cause of lack of supplies for ranged. Or being catched after big battle while having no ammo and being forced to deal with the enemy in some other way than spamming archers.

 

[Skjuld]

That's because price and smithing xp are governed by damage. And throwing spears do enormous damage. Their price is NOT predicated on materials or crafting skill needed.
The whole system is borked.

 

[Stratigo]

Actually it's a nice idea to add managing arrows supply for army. It could create some new opportunities like having to turn back from campaign cause of lack of supplies for ranged. Or being catched after big battle while having no ammo and being forced to deal with the enemy in some other way than spamming archers.

Please, no, my finger already next to falls off managing trade and looting as is.

 

[Nickname]

Please, no, my finger already next to falls off managing trade and looting as is.

So, instead of fixing a bad interface, we will limit the gameplay options? Great logic! But actually your argument is irrelevant. Managing arrows is already included in trading and looting. When you trade in a city buying and selling all kinds of garbage, one additional transaction won't complicate the process too much. And when you win a battle, you will get back a portion of arrows and most javelins with the rest of loot.

Anyway, don't worry, most likely all these suggestions will never be implemented.

 

[darksoulshin]

This thread concern about economy and price balance.
It contain 3 thread,they are all long but those go in depth of the economic system and furthermore than suggest the solutions,add even new cool mechanics.
i hope you take a good look and vote.
Thanks for the attention.
ECONOMY , LOGISTICS and WARFARE SUGGESTION LIST <--LINK

 

[Senko]

The prices were fine at release. Harpoons were like 350 denars. Now they are like 30k i think lol.

 

[Stratigo]

It’s a bug. The devs are aware. Javelins will be fixed.

 

[barcibus]

That's because price and smithing xp are governed by damage. And throwing spears do enormous damage. Their price is NOT predicated on materials or crafting skill needed.
The whole system is borked.

In the cases of extreme prices, I don't see it tied to damage.
Nor is it relegated to javelins.

I started leveling up the Smithing skill and found that some combinations of parts turn out to be many times more expensive than a similar combination where you switch out one part for a more damaging part. A couple specifics: Javelin: Harpoon Head + Tree Branch = much more expensive than swapping out for the more damaging Mahogany Javelin Shaft. Also Two Handed Polearm: Warrazor Head1 + Pine Spear Staff = much more expensive than swapping out for the more damaging Long Ash Staff.

 

[Skjuld]

In the cases of extreme prices, I don't see it tied to damage.
Nor is it relegated to javelins.

I started leveling up the Smithing skill and found that some combinations of parts turn out to be many times more expensive than a similar combination where you switch out one part for a more damaging part. A couple specifics: Javelin: Harpoon Head + Tree Branch = much more expensive than swapping out for the more damaging Mahogany Javelin Shaft. Also Two Handed Polearm: Warrazor Head1 + Pine Spear Staff = much more expensive than swapping out for the more damaging Long Ash Staff.

That's an interesting point. The formula is probably a bit more complex, taking into account DPS rather than damage and maybe a bit of length. Have you pinpointed what seems to make it more expensive ? Tier might also play some role.
The basic fact that some weapons are grossly underpriced (pugio) and some vastly overpriced still stand, though. But I'd be interested in your observation, I will make some experiments.

 

[Technech]

That's an interesting point. The formula is probably a bit more complex, taking into account DPS rather than damage and maybe a bit of length. Have you pinpointed what seems to make it more expensive ? Tier might also play some role.
The basic fact that some weapons are grossly underpriced (pugio) and some vastly overpriced still stand, though. But I'd be interested in your observation, I will make some experiments.

In my experience, it seems, that HANDLING is almost as big a factor as damage. A longer, more damaging h2 polearm, have much lower handling, and gets lower value.

 

[Skjuld]

I'll make some experiments. Thanks for your answer.

 

[KwanLamJS]

Strongly agree, for real, the archer is broken, one of the reasons is that the arrows are free, you trade enemy's life with your arrow and it refills automatically and magically, if we have to buy the arrow ourself, it will surely be more balanced and fun.

 

[Wulfrik The Wanderer]

 

[TomaSkTemplar]

polearms are cheap when it is possible to switch to 1 handed. Supposed to cut, but unable, 16 cut damage and very slow swing.

This possibly destroys price for swords with 1/2 handed as well, instead of pure 2 handed. 1 handed they have inferior stats. However I didnt try to record results to compare them..

 

[Maximum997]

I think all throwing weapons are bad in the game.

Axes- should i explain why they are bad?

And javelins. They are kinda good, but goddamn that weight. 7+ weight are you srs?

 

[Lord Irontoe]

polearms are cheap when it is possible to switch to 1 handed. Supposed to cut, but unable, 16 cut damage and very slow swing.

This possibly destroys price for swords with 1/2 handed as well, instead of pure 2 handed. 1 handed they have inferior stats. However I didnt try to record results to compare them..

The price seems to be based on the 1st mode listed, ignoring the second mode altogether. So in the case of polearms, the 1H mode is listed first and those stats are always low damage and slow, so its priced accordingly. 1H/2H swords don't have this problem because they list the 2H stats first, so the prices are based on the much better stats.

 

[TomaSkTemplar]

The price seems to be based on the 1st mode listed, ignoring the second mode altogether. So in the case of polearms, the 1H mode is listed first and those stats are always low damage and slow, so its priced accordingly. 1H/2H swords don't have this problem because they list the 2H stats first, so the prices are based on the much better stats.

good observation. So if javelins had one handed listed first, they would be dirt cheap as well and useless for blacksmith leveling with current bs leveling math.