Preventive Medicine perk is broken and nearly acts like a cheat heal.

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Berzerker Jay

Its' only 30% of missing health so if you were knocked to 10 you'd get 30 back, if in the next battle you weren't injured you'd only get 20% back etc.
That said I thought you were arguing against the basic premise of getting lost health back instantly after a battle (which is the mechanic I'd want to keep) so sorry if I miss-understood you. I think we can easily agree on something that would work for both otherwise as I'd be just as happy with being healed to a minimum of 30%, or healing 30% of damaged lost in that battle like warband.
Is it functioning as 30% of health lost during the battle, or is it 30% of total health like OP claims?

I'm presuming that the bug report is accurate, and that the perk is functioning in a way that 30% of total health is recovered every battle, and that Taleworlds has indicated this is normal and intended. If it's limited to what damage is lost in that specific battle, only, that sounds fine and like what Warband had.
 

Because

Sergeant
Is it functioning as 30% of health lost during the battle, or is it 30% of total health like OP claims?

I'm presuming that the bug report is accurate, and that the perk is functioning in a way that 30% of total health is recovered every battle, and that Taleworlds has indicated this is normal and intended. If it's limited to what damage is lost in that specific battle, only, that sounds fine and like what Warband had.
I was basing it on the below from preventive medicine (bannerlordperks.com)
So not a full 30% but 30% of missing health.
Agreed that the warband 30% of health lost that battle would be good though

Level 25 Preventive Medicine

Status:Implemented


In-game Info

Increase character's hit points by 5.
Character heals 30% of lost health points after each battle.
Code Analysis (Beta v1.5.5)

This perk correctly increases the hero's max hitpoints by 5.
It also correctly heals 30% of the hero's lost health after battles (total missing health, not just from that battle).
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
It's magical healing, in a game that isn't about magic. It's really off-putting.

You seriously can't just try being reasonable and turning down your difficulty settings, and instead argue that the entire game should be made less difficult because you won't even try that?

I'd say if your, "move my character to a place it won't get hit or shot" strategy is working out for you well enough that you can't be bothered to try any of the alternative difficulty settings, maybe you don't have the problem you think you do, and maybe the solution isn't to start having magical healing perks that work irrationally like as though you are some battle-vampire that draws power from just being on a battlefield. Or maybe a necromancer.

I want a perk that lets me shoot fireballs then. **** it. :razz:
I don't need the game to be easier. I have a very easy time in this game. It's much easier then warband. Warband had much stronger abilities available to the player too, but was much harder still.
I want the mechanics in the game to actually work and be worth the players time. So I want armor and unit upgrades to be noticeably different, I want skill and perks to useful and obtainable, I want option that allow more player agency and choices, I want every unit to do it's job. It's has nothing to do with difficulty it's about making the game not suck.
 

Berzerker Jay

Its' only 30% of missing health so if you were knocked to 10 you'd get 30 back, if in the next battle you weren't injured you'd only get 20% back etc.
That said I thought you were arguing against the basic premise of getting lost health back instantly after a battle (which is the mechanic I'd want to keep) so sorry if I miss-understood you. I think we can easily agree on something that would work for both otherwise as I'd be just as happy with being healed to a minimum of 30%, or healing 30% of damaged lost in that battle like warband.
For sure I think it would be preferable if lost hitpoints from the last battle were recovered in this way. But if let's say I get knocked out and come back with 30 HP. In the next battle I take 12 pounts of damage, I should only be recovering 4 points, not the remainder of my total health-bar.

I would be absolutely fine with that, and even prefer it over having it based on a low minimum. It better reflects how first aid can attend to wounds and prevent them from being worse outcomes, and presumably the first-aid giver is quite skilled to get the perk.
 

Berzerker Jay

I don't need the game to be easier. I have a very easy time in this game. It's much easier then warband. Warband had much stronger abilities available to the player too, but was much harder still.
I want the mechanics in the game to actually work and be worth the players time. So I want armor and unit upgrades to be noticeably different, I want skill and perks to useful and obtainable, I want option that allow more player agency and choices, I want every unit to do it's job. It's has nothing to do with difficulty it's about making the game not suck.
I want reasonable perks, but if we're going all Harry Potter then I want my character to be able to toss exploding fireballs while not wielding a weapon. I'd prefer reasonable mechanics, but barring that we might as well let loose the fireballs. :razz:
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Well it is of course possible that it was a miscommunication during design that it is after each battle and not "only HP that was lost in THAT battle".
I could also be technically more difficult for them to make it "only HP that was lost in THAT battle". It seems trivial but there are other overlooked things with HP too. Such as +max HP of mounts is triggered (with missing HP) as you mount horses in battle, when it's probably meant to be only the mount you were equipped with when spawned, but the game can't remember that (yet). Also +HP perks raise max but don't increase current HP, you can even incapacitate yourself by choosing them!

However, since they already worked on this perk (to make it proc after hideouts) and didn't touch the effect, I'd say it's going to stay as is for awhile at least.
but if we're going all Harry Potter
Yeah I admit that there's no logical reason that your character should be getting healed during subsequent fights but I don't think it's as impactful as you think. Do you get that it's only 30% of missing HP, so it's less hp every time. You already have 30% from the initial first Aid effect, so it doesn't matter, you're good to go.
 

Berzerker Jay

Well it is of course possible that it was a miscommunication during design that it is after each battle and not "only HP that was lost in THAT battle".
I could also be technically more difficult for them to make it "only HP that was lost in THAT battle". It seems trivial but there are other overlooked things with HP too. Such as +max HP of mounts is triggered (with missing HP) as you mount horses in battle, when it's probably meant to be only the mount you were equipped with when spawned, but the game can't remember that (yet). Also +HP perks raise max but don't increase current HP, you can even incapacitate yourself by choosing them!

However, since they already worked on this perk (to make it proc after hideouts) and didn't touch the effect, I'd say it's going to stay as is for awhile at least.

Yeah I admit that there's no logical reason that your character should be getting healed during subsequent fights but I don't think it's as impactful as you think. Do you get that it's only 30% of missing HP, so it's less hp every time. You already have 30% from the initial first Aid effect, so it doesn't matter, you're good to go.
I think it's possible there may be some misunderstanding in this thread, including on my part -- OP claims it's 30% of total HP healed every battle, rather than 30% of lost HP in the last battle. If it's the latter, I have no problem. If it's 30% of total HP healed with each battle, that's ludicrous.

I think this escalated when mods moved it to general discussion, as it seems to be a tacit official approval for 30% of total HP being healed.

It's not a build I often play, and having confirmed that learning any skill negatively impacts my ability to learn all others, I haven't been as adventurous with playtesting skills that don't generally appeal to me, since I can't just easily learn the ones that make a difference to my playing style later on. I'd have to make a new character just to test this out, though I am considering it.

Wish the devs would just confirm it one way or the other, because I'm either supportive or resistant one way or the other.
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
It's not a build I often play, and having confirmed that learning any skill negatively impacts my ability to learn all others,
Just to be clear, it doesn't matter if you actually learn a skill or not, you'll still get the exp towards leveling. The best you can do is quickly assign a party members to roles you don't want (such as surgeon, scout so on) to avoid unnecessary exp procs.

Wish the devs would just confirm it one way or the other, because I'm either supportive or resistant one way or the other.
It's absolutely 30% of your missing HP after each successful fight. So if you got knocked out and win the fight you get 30% of your missing HP, which in this case would be 30% of your max HP, about 30 HP(unless many perks). Then if you fight looters and don't take damage and win you get 30% of your missing hp again, about 21 more hp, but likely less as you healed while moving on the map. This will continue and is help full in healing, however keep in mind getting hit on full difficulty will often take over 50% of your HP anyways so it looks better on paper then actual battle advantage. If you got knocked by the looters and win, you would go back to 30 HP anyways.

The real advantage is just being able to engage in battle immediately after being KO'd in a fight. If it was changed to be "only hp lost in battle" then getting KO'd a second time at 30% HP would not restore you enough to continue fighting immediately. Honestly I'm okay if they change it this way as it only logically makes sense that the character if repairing the damage of a fresh wound with their medical skills.
 

Berzerker Jay

Just to be clear, it doesn't matter if you actually learn a skill or not, you'll still get the exp towards leveling. The best you can do is quickly assign a party members to roles you don't want (such as surgeon, scout so on) to avoid unnecessary exp procs.
The amount you get from a skill can be a lot. From my understanding you get as many points as you have for each point you increase, so it goes up substantially. By skill level 6 you would have (1+2+3+4+5+6) 21 xp from the skill gain alone. And that's only a skill level of 6. Obviously once Stewardship gets up past 100 or so, it's going to have significant impact on leveling.

It's absolutely 30% of your missing HP after each successful fight. So if you got knocked out and win the fight you get 30% of your missing HP, which in this case would be 30% of your max HP, about 30 HP(unless many perks). Then if you fight looters and don't take damage and win you get 30% of your missing hp again, about 21 more hp, but likely less as you healed while moving on the map. This will continue and is help full in healing, however keep in mind getting hit on full difficulty will often take over 50% of your HP anyways so it looks better on paper then actual battle advantage. If you got knocked by the looters and win, you would go back to 30 HP anyways.

The real advantage is just being able to engage in battle immediately after being KO'd in a fight. If it was changed to be "only hp lost in battle" then getting KO'd a second time at 30% HP would not restore you enough to continue fighting immediately. Honestly I'm okay if they change it this way as it only logically makes sense that the character if repairing the damage of a fresh wound with their medical skills.
So, to confirm, if I have this perk and go into battle with 30 remaining HP, and I get knocked out, I will come back with roughly 10 HP? Probably 9? Then if I heal up to 21 by the time I come across a party of bandits, I will at most get 7 HP back from the perk if they happen to knock me out, but no more than that?

If so, then I'm cool.
 

Berzerker Jay

Also, I finally learned how to split my comments meaningfully between a quoted reply. It'd help heaps if this forum made it more clear how to do so -- I've probably left so many extra comments when I could have been as clear while formatting it all within one comment. :razz:
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
The amount you get from a skill can be a lot. From my understanding you get as many points as you have for each point you increase, so it goes up substantially. By skill level 6 you would have (1+2+3+4+5+6) 21 xp from the skill gain alone. And that's only a skill level of 6. Obviously once Stewardship gets up past 100 or so, it's going to have significant impact on leveling.
Lol No! You're going into weapon master town again!
You get the same amount of exp towards leveling up SEPERATLYfrom your skill exp with it's modifiers. So if I hit 20 enemies with my Glaive with zero FP and 2 vigor(default) I get just as much exp toward leveling up as I do if I hit 20 guys with the glaive with 5 fp in polearm.

So, to confirm, if I have this perk and go into battle with 30 remaining HP, and I get knocked out, I will come back with roughly 10 HP? Probably 9? Then if I heal up to 21 by the time I come across a party of bandits, I will at most get 7 HP back from the perk if they happen to knock me out, but no more than that?
No, you will come back with 30 HP each time, because it checks your total missing HP.
welcome to hogwarts
 
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Berzerker Jay

Lol No! You're going into weapon master town again!
You get the same amount of exp towards leveling up SEPERATLYfrom your skill exp with it's modifiers. So if I hit 20 enemies with my Glaive with zero FP and 2 vigor(default) I get just as much exp toward leveling up as I do if I hit 20 guys with the glaive with 5 fp in polearm.


No, you will come back with 30 HP each time, because it checks your total missing HP.
welcome to hogwarts
Oh dear god, that's awful then and I absolutely register my displeasure with the Harry Potter game mechanics. At least give me my fireballs! :razz:

To be clear, anyway, I'm not saying you won't get xp from your kills in battle, but I'm talking about skill-based xp you gain in addition to that. I can level up just by increasing skills alone, so I don't know how this is being treated as a non-factor. You don't only level by xp you gain during battle, and in fact you might in some cases level up more from your various skill increases.
 
Alright lads, I'm bringing this one back: I was on 60% health and I got knocked out in battle. My troops still won the battle... However, I went from 1% to 40%!!

Even if this is supposed to heal up to 30%, it's still broken because it just healed me 40% lol...

Getting my harry potter healing potions on!
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Alright lads, I'm bringing this one back: I was on 60% health and I got knocked out in battle. My troops still won the battle... However, I went from 1% to 40%!!

Even if this is supposed to heal up to 30%, it's still broken because it just healed me 40% lol...

Getting my harry potter healing potions on!
-10 points from snitchendorf!
 

scarface52

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Alright lads, I'm bringing this one back: I was on 60% health and I got knocked out in battle. My troops still won the battle... However, I went from 1% to 40%!!

Even if this is supposed to heal up to 30%, it's still broken because it just healed me 40% lol...

Getting my harry potter healing potions on!
There is another one that gives 10 HP after offensive battles. Probably that.
 
There is another one that gives 10 HP after offensive battles. Probably that.
Oh yesh, can confirm it is another perk... Nevermind lads, nothing to see here.

Although, I'm considering making another thread to address the absolute meme these perks are becoming (Though it won't be popular. Apparently people prefer sacraficing immersion/logical perks for being a harry potter super hero).
 
In a game with a giant red health bar in the corner, why does that surprise you?
Warband had the same but it leaned much more towards immersion/reality - And all the most popular mods were even more supportive of immersion. Many of them even had things like temporary and permanent injuries.

What made Warband popular was its depth and game-play (especially the mods) and the balance it struck between reality and game. - Even when things weren't realistic, they were still consistent with the in-game logic in a satisfying way.

That is why it surprises me. Bannerlord keeps making decisions that are the opposite of depth/immersion/reality. The perks are a good example of that!

At this point, if they introduced fireballs, the ability to jedi-block arrows with your sword (lol, imagine) and healing potions, it wouldn't be surprising at all.
 
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