Pre-battle positioning

[Iberian Wolf]

I don't have any problem with the current troop positioning and distance between parties in large scale battles. Before combat, a parley is held, and in case of failure, the leaders will return to their camp and fight/flee.

But I have  always thought it didn't make any sense to chase 5 looters, and after the parley, you still have to find them in the tactical map at least 500m away. It's not realistic at all(and for the Realism<FUN bandwagon, it's not fun to waste all this time for no reason). 

Therefore I was thinking...shouldn't the parties be generated like 5-10m from each other depending on either the number of troops and/or type of party?

To make it simple - if we are fighting against a war party like looters and forest bandits, the troops should be generated quite close to each other, ideally something like this scene (gotta love the pre-battle tension!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LkzdB_c0ww&t=0m50s

If it's against another nobleman, then it could be kept as it is.

Or perhaps depending on the number of troops - for instance, anything higher than 50 soldiers to each side would generate the troops far from each other, but I reckon this is a bit harder to implement.

Any thoughts?

 

[John the Roleplayer]

Makes perfect sense. I dimly remember that they actually did do exactly that, smaller parties start closer to each other.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Or perhaps depending on the number of troops - for instance, anything higher than 50 soldiers to each side would generate the troops far from each other, but I reckon this is a bit harder to implement.

Not really, this would just be some very basic maths. Everything you described can be easily modded into warband.

 

[Iberian Wolf]

Interesting...sounds good then. I'm surprised that is not included in the several mods I've played so far, or maybe I didn't notice.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

It's in my mod.

Most modders focus on adding new stuff rather than fixing and refining the existing mechanics. Making new stuff is fun, fixing badly made stuff less so. This is also why "modders will fix it" doesn't feel right to me given that there is so much to potentially fix in bannerlord that most modders won't even attempt it.

 

[urugamer5]

Sound good, sometimes armies should start far but other times very close, that should be existing because u will have no time to put formation if they ambush u

 

[RoboSenshi]

Makes a lot of sense. It should absolutely be implemented into the game.

 

[Timbotron]

Good idea

 

[DanAngleland]

It would be good to have a choice before the battle scene to start close or the usual distance; sometimes you might not want to be starting close even to looters e.g. if you are wounded and don't want to get knocked out (or you don't want to risk any of your party being knocked out) and want your archers to do all the work. Or you may just want the distance to allow you to ride around a scene and take your time. But in general, I think it's a good idea.

 

[Iberian Wolf]

Thank you guys for the feedback. It's great to hear we're more or less on the same page, so let's hope the devs feel the same way and come up with something.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

It would be good to have a choice before the battle scene to start close or the usual distance; sometimes you might not want to be starting close even to looters e.g. if you are wounded and don't want to get knocked out (or you don't want to risk any of your party being knocked out) and want your archers to do all the work. Or you may just want the distance to allow you to ride around a scene and take your time. But in general, I think it's a good idea.

If you want that distance you should be forced to retreat slightly at the start of a battle and maybe risk getting caught rather than having the full range of tactical options right from the get go. The smaller battlefields for smaller battles would represent how smaller groups of soldiers can get closer to each other without their scouts making contact etc.

 

[DanAngleland]

Maybe it would be better like that actually, I agree.

 

[FBohler]

I like the idea of spawning closer to smaller parties, but I think the bigger party shouldn't be entirely in its formations.

I mean, a small fraction (maybe the personal guard) of the party rushes to reach the enemy, while the rest is still at the distance.

Another nitpick on the idea, I think 5 - 10m is way too close, I'm more into the 50m range to be honest, with the leaders standing in the middle providing a cool duel before the forces clash.

 

[lcmiracle]

I was thinking you are talking about a Total War style pre-battle deployment phase that I can lay divisions out, I looked around and it seemed it's not a native feature of bannerlord, yet.
As to the distance of travel of two groups, sure -- as long as I am not dropped in an arm's reach (figurably speaking), smaller enemy groups should start closer to me. Absolutely.
Better yet, if I encounter small bands of bandits or whatnot, with a much larger/higher-quality group, I should be able to demand them to surrender, nick their stuff and take them prisoners. If they refuse then a fight precede as usual; if not I get stuffs in lieu of experience points. It's a better resolution to a completely suspenseless and otherwise boring fight that I have to spend several mintues on and a less frustrating option than auto-resolve.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Warband has a "we surrender" feature but the AI inly surrenders if it's already on the retreat and completely outnumbered, otherwise they just throw their lives away.

 

[FBohler]

It would be very uninteresting if weaker parties surrender too easily.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

It's already uninteresting to be forced to fight them. Anyway hen you are large enough to force parties to surrender, you should also be slower most of the time.

 

[BlazingScribe]

It's an interesting idea. However, if smaller parties start in relatively close proximity, doesn't that mean that ranged units will have less time to fire? And infantry will have less time to get organized before getting run over by whatever cavalry is on hand? Warband might have taken more time but at least you usually had time to pick some decent ground to fight on and get a few volleys in before the bandits reached you.

 

[lcmiracle]

It's an interesting idea. However, if smaller parties start in relatively close proximity, doesn't that mean that ranged units will have less time to fire? And infantry will have less time to get organized before getting run over by whatever cavalry is on hand? Warband might have taken more time but at least you usually had time to pick some decent ground to fight on and get a few volleys in before the bandits reached you.

From a SP battle beta vid I watched on Youtube it'd seem that all units stay in place at the start of battle and are arranged by control groups. So the cavalry won't just charge right into the enemy shortly after game start. As for the range units -- the distance can be just a bit further than effective shooting range so loosing shots would be a waste. In warband I constantly order my units to stand ground, direct each group into positions and tell archers to hold fire. It is pretty much the only reason I prefer larger maps in warband - so I have time to properly deploy. Honestly all these can be so much easier if I could set up unit formations and orders before battle starts. However it's still a sludge to wait at times mintues before the armies meet, espeically when the AI holds ground and I had to move to them.

Come to think of it, I hope those ridiculously hilly maps around Rhodoks is gone from Bannerlord for good.

 

[NPC99]

I agree five looters/bandits charging an army is ridiculous. However, I wouldn't want the starting distance closed. That would make it impossible to leave my troops out of an engagement and attack small parties alone.