SP Native Pre-Battle Orders & Deployment (v0.96.3 for Warband 1143+WSE)-patch for 115x

[Caba`drin]

The "end" for the camera mode worked. I tried looking in the Preferences - PMOD settings for the camera keys, but everything says "Nonexisting string!" except for Next and Previous troop (left and right mouse button). I tried clicking to change it, and it remains the Nonexisting String!. Changing the Previous/Next troop buttons will also change it to Nonexisting String!

Thanks for your continued posts...I really didn't realize I lost my mind so much when I posted v0.85. I forgot to include the strings.txt file. I'll upload another fix for this shortly. Deepest apologies.

Also, sorry if this is yet another false report, but is enemy Tactics skill screwing with my troop numbers

This happens to happen primarily against high level lords with many soldiers. I manually select my heroes, 25 sarges, 25 sharpshooters, but I only count the sergeants. The extra 25 aren't showing up in any form.

I don't fully understand here. The Deployment screen says you should have 50+ troops, so you select them, but only 25ish actually spawn?

I'd like a savegame of this, if you please.

 

[drunkhobo]

Sent through PM

 

[Caba`drin]

Version 0.86 Beta Released.

• Bugfixes for the issues mentioned above (see changelog for details)
• No feature changes.
• Version for Diplomacy needed no update, so no changes there.

Plenty of things...still...in the works.

Enjoy!

Also, sorry if this is yet another false report, but is enemy Tactics skill screwing with my troop numbers

This happens to happen primarily against high level lords with many soldiers. I manually select my heroes, 25 sarges, 25 sharpshooters, but I only count the sergeants. The extra 25 aren't showing up in any form.

Unfortunately a bugfix for this is not yet possible. In large battles with many allied parties my calculations over-estimate the number of troops the player will provide for the battle. (Better than selling the player short, in my mind.) Once I improve these calculations (or get the official numbers from the Taleworlds devs), they will be updated, but for the time being overestimating all of the time is better than shorting the player some of the time.

 

[SpittingLlama]

Hmmm. How easy do you think it would be to be able to separate troops of the same type into different command groups?

 

[Caba`drin]

Hmmm. How easy do you think it would be to be able to separate troops of the same type into different command groups?

This is one of the systems I currently have in progress. The code to actually accomplish it is very straight-forward...what I have been struggling with is more the design aspect of how the player would make and store their preferences for dividing troops. It is something I need input and feedback on and have asked for here without reply.

I'll put the questions up here again. Any thoughts would be quite appreciated.

Feedback requested:
How would it be most useful to divide troops of the same type into 2 divisions? (Say you want your Huscarls to have some in a Bodyguard group, and others with your infantry, for example.) Should it be by %, set up ahead of time and always applied...or by a pre-battle screen that the player needs to select a specific # to go into each group for each battle, similar to how Deployment works?

I suppose, on that topic, would it be useful to implement a flat % Deployment system that could be set up ahead of time, rather than every pre-battle menu?

 

[Mammoet]

Feedback requested:
How would it be most useful to divide troops of the same type into 2 divisions? (Say you want your Huscarls to have some in a Bodyguard group, and others with your infantry, for example.) Should it be by %, set up ahead of time and always applied...or by a pre-battle screen that the player needs to select a specific # to go into each group for each battle, similar to how Deployment works?

I suppose, on that topic, would it be useful to implement a flat % Deployment system that could be set up ahead of time, rather than every pre-battle menu?

I think it would be best if the groups would not try to maintain their percentage throughout battle. Maybe one group is at the otter side of the battlefield and this wil make units run through the whole battle. I wouldn't want that.
Also it might be better if we are able to select which troups go together. I might want to put all my high tier units into one group and the lower in another. Better then a fixed percentage for all inf, which would result in mixed groups for both which is less usefull in my opinion.

Hope this helps

 

[Duh]

In my opinion it would be very nice if the player could choose how many troops of a certain type are within a specified unit in his party/camp screen. Maybe using a scroll bar similar to the custom battle one, but not based on percentage. Instead it should go from 0 to max amount of units, making it easier to access the numbers or so i would think

Once a specified unit is set up, it should remain as it is until the player makes changes. If you were to add an automatic refillment system to distribute unassigned troops to the specified units in case they experience battles losses, that should have the option to be turned on or off for all units or only be applied to a group where it has been checked on, since it holds the chance to create a bit of confusion as to were which troops went.

 

[Kea Black]

Hy Caba`drin

I want to tell you that I plan to use your kit for the next release of my mod, I hope this is not a problem
looking here after several days I've noted the 0.86 version is out, I've used the 0.85, what are the changes?
(please for the next releases update the readme file)

the two question in the Q&A Topic are related to the pike vs horse damage bonus of your kit, that I'm trying to modify, to get a speed/position related bonus, have you changed this part of the kit in the 0.86?

 

[Caba`drin]

I want to tell you that I plan to use your kit for the next release of my mod, I hope this is not a problem
looking here after several days I've noted the 0.86 version is out, I've used the 0.85, what are the changes?
(please for the next releases update the readme file)

the two question in the Q&A Topic are related to the pike vs horse damage bonus of your kit, that I'm trying to modify, to get a speed/position related bonus, have you changed this part of the kit in the 0.86?

Apologies for forgetting the Readme. Will do in future versions. The changelog was updated and is in the thread's opening post, however.
v0.85 to v0.86 was just a bugfix version...but dealt with some important bugs:

Companions .97 + Diplomacy 3.3.2 + Pre-battle Orders & Deployment .85: Repository Download.

Added to the second post.

 

[p3te95]

this is probably some nooby stuff from me but i have no idea how to put this into diplomacy despite the instructions, help?

 

[drunkhobo]

I've done more experimenting (I'm nearing 3000 days by now). I play super duper slowly. Anyway some comments

I'm not sure how difficult this might be, but along with the standard polearm behavior (for foot soldiers), making soldiers prioritizing the stronger stab over the swing would be useful.

I've experimented with infantry and archers from every single faction. Faction troops that have two handed spears tend to swing them a lot.  Unfortunately, overhead swings from two handed spears tend not to be very strong. The only faction that does it properly is the Swadian Sergeants that spawn with Awlpikes, as one hand awlpikes only have stabs

I've noticed that the computer seems to favor keyboard - movement style attack, such as if you move forward you seem to stick with the overhead swing, and my NPCs always seem to thrust when moving backwards while attacking. As Hold Positioned troops tend to move forward to engage units in their radius, this usually causes a lot of overhead spear swings. It affects the Rhodok weapons less, as glaive/warhammer swings are the preferred attack, but it's pretty bad for the other faction infantry

Also, in the spirit of de-horsed cavalry being reassigned to X, I think archers without ammo might make a good option to switch over to another unit.

PS: If I wanted to use Pre-battle with a SP conversion game (100 Year old War, Prophecy of Pendor) is there a fairly simple way to do it? I see a a source kit in the OP, but is that for the installers or modders?

 

[Kea Black]

Apologies for forgetting the Readme. Will do in future versions. The changelog was updated and is in the thread's opening post, however.
v0.85 to v0.86 was just a bugfix version...but dealt with some important bugs:

Companions .97 + Diplomacy 3.3.2 + Pre-battle Orders & Deployment .85: Repository Download.

Added to the second post.

sorry, i've looked only in the first part of the op (the new features) and missed the changelogs in the spoiler (i've also missed the changelog posted some posts before mine ... probably I need a pair of glasses)

thanks for your work

 

[Caba`drin]

this is probably some nooby stuff from me but i have no idea how to put this into diplomacy despite the instructions, help?

Have you checked out the instructions/posts in the Diplomacy +PBOD thread? If not, do so. If you have--or after you do and you still have questions--can you post in that thread, explaining what you tried or where you need more details?

Anyway some comments.

Always appreciate these...so any others reading, feel free/encouraged to do as drunkhobo has been doing in his posts. It gives me ideas of other things to work on and lets me know how things I've done are working. As I don't take a lot of time to just play, I need such insights

I'm not sure how difficult this might be, but along with the standard polearm behavior (for foot soldiers), making soldiers prioritizing the stronger stab over the swing would be useful.

I've considered editing spears to remove the cutting/swing damage, so they can only thrust...anything other than this would be very CPU intensive in trying to override native AI battle behavior and giving them specific instructions on what attack move to use. I'm not certain how great of an idea the item changes would be, but it might be worth a try. (I could upload such a file, for instance, if you or anyone else had any interest in beta testing such an arrangement.)

Also, in the spirit of de-horsed cavalry being reassigned to X, I think archers without ammo might make a good option to switch over to another unit.

An interesting idea.

PS: If I wanted to use Pre-battle with a SP conversion game (100 Year old War, Prophecy of Pendor) is there a fairly simple way to do it? I see a a source kit in the OP, but is that for the installers or modders?

The source kit is mainly for modders, but it does include fairly detailed instructions of where to copy-paste PBOD's code into another source code. At present, there is no simpler way than doing the copy-paste of my code into the source of another mod, unfortunately. And, with the mods you listed, I do not believe they have yet opened their source. Your best/only bet in those cases is to suggest to modders that they include it.

 

[drunkhobo]

I would love to test any changes, but if you say AI-behavior does cost CPU resources, I actually run M&B:warband on the lowest possible setting already. My video card seems fine for most of the newer games these days, but apparently my processor is not up to par.

 

[possum]

is it possible to add a "if i die" order option before the battle begins to the game?

i usually let my archer hold the ground but if i get knocked out, they keep standing even if they ran out of arrows. sometimes i can watch a single crossbowmen standng 20 m away and shooting them one by one while they dont even think of attacking him.

beeing able to give my troops orders how they should behave after i have been kocked out would help to avoid a lot of unnecessary losses.

 

[Caba`drin]

I would love to test any changes, but if you say AI-behavior does cost CPU resources, I actually run M&B:warband on the lowest possible setting already. My video card seems fine for most of the newer games these days, but apparently my processor is not up to par.

Points taken...I'm not sure how well trying to code bot decision-making that precisely would work anyhow.
I've made a quick edit (using Morgh's Tools, actually, rather than the source...lazy me) stripping "swinging" from spears and pikes. No idea what the result will be in-battle as I haven't tested it at all.

No-Swing Spears and Pikes Item_kinds1.txt: MediaFire download.

I'd recommend making a backup copy of the item_kinds1.txt that is present in your ...Warband\Modules\PreBattle O&D\ folder. Then just drop this one in and start the game...and let me know what you think.

is it possible to add a "if i die" order option before the battle begins to the game? beeing able to give my troops orders how they should behave after i have been kocked out would help to avoid a lot of unnecessary losses.

Fair enough. Losses like that defeat the purpose of battle continuation.
Would a tick box "Charge on KD" in mod preferences do the trick?

If a blanket "charge all" isn't what you had in mind, perhaps something a little more nuanced (archers only charge once out of ammo or some such...infantry and cavalry charge after X amount of time) could be possible.

It is not likely that I would add a complex post-knock out system where the player could set up a series of varied commands to be carried out on their demise as it could get exploitative in game (and be labor intensive for coding).

 

[drunkhobo]

I bought every spear I could find in stores (War Spear, Boar Spear, Awlpike). In the description, the swing has been removed, I tested them in combat to make sure, as well as giving it to a hero ally. I tested with Swadian Infantry/Sergeants. I didn't see a single swing in combat in 15 battles, and wasn't able to force a swing myself either. I'm fairly sure everything is working.

I tried it against Desert Bandits to see if it'll stop cavalry charges. It does to a certain extent. Some of them do poke and stop the charges. After the initial charge. A good number of them do poke the riders off horses. They still do poorly against heavy cavalry due to several reasons, mostly to do with how units are equipped. I wish all Swadian Sergeants spawned with awlpikes, then you could not only have a line of just awlpikes, but disable shield use for two handed awlpike damage/speed. Unfortunately a great amount of Sergeants spawn in with only sword and shield, and shield-less sword users wouldn't be too awesome.  The limited and random distribution of secondary weapons in all advanced infantry makes it difficult to find a clear role for the secondary weapons.

Anyway the second half of this post belongs more in balance/suggestion rants section, but yes, this mini-fix does everything it's supposed to do

 

[Duh]

I bought every spear I could find in stores (War Spear, Boar Spear, Awlpike). In the description, the swing has been removed, I tested them in combat to make sure, as well as giving it to a hero ally. I tested with Swadian Infantry/Sergeants. I didn't see a single swing in combat in 15 battles, and wasn't able to force a swing myself either. I'm fairly sure everything is working.

I tried it against Desert Bandits to see if it'll stop cavalry charges. It does to a certain extent. Some of them do poke and stop the charges. After the initial charge. A good number of them do poke the riders off horses. They still do poorly against heavy cavalry due to several reasons, mostly to do with how units are equipped. I wish all Swadian Sergeants spawned with awlpikes, then you could not only have a line of just awlpikes, but disable shield use for two handed awlpike damage/speed. Unfortunately a great amount of Sergeants spawn in with only sword and shield, and shield-less sword users wouldn't be too awesome.  The limited and random distribution of secondary weapons in all advanced infantry makes it difficult to find a clear role for the secondary weapons.

Anyway the second half of this post belongs more in balance/suggestion rants section, but yes, this mini-fix does everything it's supposed to do

What tactics are you using for your spearman? Did you give them the order stand closer a couple of times? It would be interesting to see how they do using different kinds of behaviors (making them stand up front, mingling them with swordsmen, making them hold and standing close together, making them charge, etc).

 

[drunkhobo]

Depends which Spearmen you are talking about. I'm Rhodok faction so and all my units are spearmen until Sergeant status. The Desert Bandit awlpike test was with Swadian Sergeants/Infantry.

I usually do a single "Stand Closer". Normally for lord vs lord battles, I have 40-60 available men for selection. I usually have around 20 infantry to protect 25 ranged, so I usually place them 15 paces in front of my ranged if expecting a cavalry charge. Any closer and the cavalry that get through cause the ranged units to enter melee mode. If the front wall is too short, the cavalry tends to slip around the edges and hit my archer line. Once they're gone, the enemy infantry tend to stream in a line. Here, I can usually do a stand closer formation and give 10 Steps ahead commands or give manual Hold Position with a flag waypoint. I never charge, as AI will always use disproportionate amount of forces, such as 20 men to chase 4 guys on the side, and 10 men stuck fighting the bulk of the army. If engaging an organized line of Nord infantry, I never engage infantry line vs line with my spearmen until I break up their line, as they get slaughtered until they reach Sergeant status.

For this particular test, I did multiple "Stand Closer" commands since all I was using were Swadian Infantry and Swadian Sergeants. I can't really command awlpike Sergeants and awlpike-less sergeants separately, unless you use Rhodok  Veteran Spearmen on a separate unit for a pure polearms. Also, a surprising amount of Sergeants died to Desert Bandits (Lost total 8 Sergeants in 6 battles of 40 Sergeants vs ~45 Desert Bandits). I then challenged a random Sarranid lord with Mamlukes to battle. The problem is that one handed awlpikes just don't do too much damage. It's ~20 piercing damage with the one hand penalty. If everyone had awlpikes and every cavalry ate awlpikes it wouldn't matter, but the "normal" Sergeants spawn with swords, which are one of the worst weapons against cavalry imo (does mediocre damage against the armored mount). I actually prefer the two handed brown spears that "Swadian Infantry" uses, as it does more damage as it's two handed, has disgusting range (Units were stabbing over other units to hit the actual rider instead of the horse) and isn't too slow either.

 

[possum]

found a little bug:

fought some desert bandits, some of them had a spear and javs on their back. they did hold the spear but did not attack, instead they were just riding circles around me, staring and aiming at the sky.

seems like the ai did not switch from skirmish mode to melee.

i use the pike and blade mod together with your mod.