Post Difficult Questions Here

[Orion]

I remember the Turkish military being triggerred by this photo long ago. Some organisation organises event and takes students from 45 kindergartens to mosques, making kids to wear Islamic headwear. People found the opposition's sensibility extreme at that time, arguing that Christian versions of these events wouldn't be frowned upon in Western countries. Is that true?

Spoiler: photo

It is in fact illegal for public schools in the United States to compel students to participate in religious worship or practices. It has also been upheld in the US Supreme Court that teacher-led prayers cannot be held in public schools because it is either exclusionary to non-participating students or marginalizing to those that do participate (depending on how it is presented). In the US, there are public and private schools, and some private schools are religious schools. This definitely happens in religious schools and is legal there, but it would become an ethics dispute if a public school attempted it. I think the closest I got to any forced religious exposure in my time at school was visiting the Washington National Cathedral, but that is also a place of architectural & historic significance in the US because some important individuals are buried there, like Woodrow Wilson (a former president) and Helen Keller. It was part of a voluntary trip to the capital, a relatively short part of the visit, and a service at the cathedral was not part of it.

 

[Adorno]

I don't know of anything similar in Denmark. It's a very secular society. I'm quite sure it would be frowned upon.
But there are religious schools where attending church and routinely singing religious songs and such is common.
But that only bears resemblance to that thing in the article if the children are from a Muslim school.
And there's no Christian equivalent to Muslim headwear anyone is forced to wear.

That said, around the age of 14-15 a child can attend 'confirmation', which is a religious event (confirming your baptism).
It's of course voluntary, but very popular because they get big gifts (typically much more than on a birthday).

 

[kurczak]

Even under literal communists, when we went on a school trip to a place, we stopped by to see the local churches on account of its historical or aesthetic importance. We didn't put on any headgear or long pants, but we were expected to be quiet and respectful. We certainly didn't participate in the Mass or any other rite, that would be at least a career-ending move for the teacher.

 

[rektasaurus]

It is in fact illegal for public schools in the United States to compel students to participate in religious worship or practices. It has also been upheld in the US Supreme Court that teacher-led prayers cannot be held in public schools because it is either exclusionary to non-participating students or marginalizing to those that do participate (depending on how it is presented). In the US, there are public and private schools, and some private schools are religious schools. This definitely happens in religious schools and is legal there, but it would become an ethics dispute if a public school attempted it. I think the closest I got to any forced religious exposure in my time at school was visiting the Washington National Cathedral, but that is also a place of architectural & historic significance in the US because some important individuals are buried there, like Woodrow Wilson (a former president) and Helen Keller. It was part of a voluntary trip to the capital, a relatively short part of the visit, and a service at the cathedral was not part of it.

Grew up in the states. Went to public school all my life. In kindergarten our teachers took us on a field trip to a catholic church without indicating they would be taking kids to a church on the permission slip and sat us all down in pews and had someone come out and say a few words which I don't remember. During other periods of schooling, we were taken on field trips to missions, which are also churches, and has actual historical value and was conducted in a completely different context as opposed to the catholic church during kindergarten. Personally, I didn't mind it since I didn't see any religious indoctrination and thought it was a just a cool experience. You best believe we were never taken to any other type of place of worship, e.g. jehovah, latter day, protestant, jewish, hindu, muslim, etc.

Perhaps to give a little insight into the situation in Turkish mosques, although I can't see the picture and I'm not exactly sure about the rest of the context... it is forbidden for any tourists to enter any mosque without first being properly covered and robes or scarves are provided if they are wearing shorts, tanktops, etc. It probably has a lot less to do with 'indoctrinating' students than it does with showing 'respect' to the tradition of how people have been entering these places for 1000s of years and that is with covered knees, elbows, and womens' hair. Under no circumstances would any of the viewers be taught any religious dogma, prayers, or whatever, as that would go completely against the nature of islam, and in fact, out of respect for worshippers, I'd be pretty certain that they wouldn't even be allowed to view the prayers. Although it wouldn't surprise me if things are slightly different nowadays. Personally, I would like to see the same type of activity where turkish kids would be taken on a field trip to a church but maybe that step will hopefully come in the near future. I'm not sure about american kids today but I really can't imagine that any of them are being taken to mosques and at any rate religious homegenity in turkey far surpasses that of the united states so it's a completely different sort of deal.

Edit: just saw the picture. Holy cow the optics of that are pretty terrible. I can definitely see the kids being preached at there and it seems it goes way beyond polite covering up. Their T-shirts are saying something to the effect of “the apple of my eye is prayer”.

@Kentucky James VII canli bomba means “bombshell live breaking news”.

 

[Shiroin]

?I want to know the relationship between Onion and Delinard.

 

[Orion]

?I want to know the relationship between Onion and Delinard.

 

[Shiroin]

Thank you. My only question left is who acts Female character in this complicated relationship.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

So how dead is this place and how much of that is purely and solely Monty's fault?

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Monty personally visited the house of everyone who regularly uses the forum and shot them in the head. Callum and Lust provided the addresses and the bullets.

 

[Count Delinard]

That's pretty much how it went, yes.

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

For the record, he is an absolutely awful shot.

 

[Adorno]

The word naive or naivety can also be spelled naïve or naïvety. Even naïveté is accepted spelling*
To my knowledge that is the only word in English using ï. Is that correct, or are there other cases?

* https://www.dictionary.com/browse/naivete hon hon hon

 

[Adorno]

Aha. Thanks.
Egoïsm and Judaïsm is weïrd. Never seen it written like that
Beïng is just daft.

 

[ModusTollens]

Those diacritics are sometimes used to show that two vowels aren't sounded as a diphtong but separately - hence 'beïng' but 'fair'.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

If you're a pretentious **** who writes for the New Yorker at any rate.

 

[ModusTollens]

Yeah, I agree. The New Yorker is indeed one of the few American newspapers where a column about learning a foreign language is even conceivable.

 

[Somnorila]

Here is a pretty difficult question.
What is going on with those protests against President Macron? Specially during a pandemic. It seems odd to me to support religious extremism and killings and beheadings just because of some caricatures. Are people so far gone to be able to recognize right from wrong? I mean, what is the reasoning for that?

Calls to boycott France put Turkey "even further" from EU

President Emmanuel Macron defended a cartoonist's right to caricature religious leaders in the wake of a French teacher's murder.

www.cbsnews.com

Calls to boycott French products grow in Muslim world after Macron backs Mohammed cartoons | CNN

Calls are growing in parts of the Muslim world to boycott French goods in protest after President Emmanuel Macron publicly defended cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, which are considered blasphemous in Islam.

edition.cnn.com

I mean, really?! Jesus Christ as Prophet Mohammed and all the other Buddha types and whatnot were most probably imagined. At most real people who were delusional and fell in to others ambitions or themselves really good con masters. Not more than plain sect leaders. In any case, even if they lived, they are from a way far back in time period. Are people serious?! We are living in the present not in the past. And if anyone is hurt in the name of any religion, well, that religion failed. I'm sorry for anyone how enjoys power of influence or wealth as result of being a leading figure in said religious structure, but they'll have to get to work like anyone else and actually add something productive and positive in to the worldwide society. Taxes are enough strain on a personal level, you don't need to funnel off money from hospitals, roads and schools to bury them in churches. That's how we end up antivax, anti mask, flat earthers, global warming deniers, anti bloody common sense...

 

[Adorno]

I'm not sure complex political issues is what this thread is for. But anyway.
The cartoons that the French teacher was killed for showing stem partly from a Danish newspaper back in 2005, and since republished by Charlie Hebdo, along with other cartoons.
Back then some Danish imams informed other clerics in Muslim countries about it to cause an uproar, which happened.
Danish products (like cheese) were boycotted and flags burned. There were even leaders of state demanding the prime minister to make the newspaper retract the images (clearly not knowing how a democracy with free press works).

Now the case has flared up again, and it seems like a good opportunity in these trying times to find a scapegoat
and accuse the French state/Macron of being islamophobic.
It also comes after Macron launched "an attack" on extremist/separatist elements in the Muslim communities.

France outlines plan to stem Islamic 'separatism' – DW – 10/02/2020

French president Emmanuel Macron has introduced plans to defend secularism against the threat of "parallel societies" emerging within Muslim communities. Schools must "train citizens, not believers," Macron said.

www.dw.com

In Muslim countries it might be easy to spin such a story into an attack on Muslims in general.

In case you're not aware, depicting the prophet is a serious offence in Muslim majority countries, and something you never see there.
You say they "were most probably imagined". Yes, but not depicted.
After that you go off the rails and talk about taxes and flat earthers. No comment.

 

[eddiemccandless]

I suggest watching a documentary called "The Social Dilemma" (it's available on Netflix) if you have a chance. It provides an interesting insight into how such differences in perception are amplified, pretty much on purpose, by social media, to the point where it becomes very difficult to even figure out who is right and who is wrong.

 

[Adorno]

Macron is right.