Possible solution to balance Khan's Guard?

Split Khuzait noble tree with two distinct unit types?

  • Good idea

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Bad idea

    Votes: 7 70.0%

  • Total voters
    10

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The defeat of all Calradia is set in stone, from day 1, its just a matter how fast I want to do it. That is how smart the game designers are, You making ignorant statements on my behalf dont serve anybody.

Learn to play the game and you will never think about Khans Guard again.

No more F1+F3
Let's look at how we got here.
You think it's stupid to nerf things in a singleplayer game.
I respond by saying that game devs commonly nerf things for the sake of keeping the game immersive and challenging.
The best response you can provide is "learn to play the game."
I'm saying the game's battles aren't challenging enough. In what world does your response even make sense? I know how to play the damn game. You're the one who was saying you like Khan's Guard because they make the game easy!
 
As I said in the last sentence, they are taking away from players who want balanced units in their place. And as I also said, not recruiting them does not result in getting more balanced units, so it is not a solution to the problem.

There's a clear difference between exploits you can just completely ignore because you have to go out of your way to use them anyway, and imbalanced troops which you have to go out of your way to avoid. Imbalanced troops results in multiple factions having fewer units to choose from for someone who wants a balanced experience. I cannot avoid Fians and Khan's Guards as if they're not filling recruitment slots other units would take, as well as being the only T6 option for two factions and for one faction the only archer.

Balancing Khan's Guards and Fians wouldn't solely be taking something away from one group of players, it'd be giving more balanced units to other players.

I could be a jerk about it and tell the people who want imbalanced Khan's Guards and Fians to just lower the difficulty level or learn to play, but instead of misrepresenting people's intentions or insulting them instead we should ask: What exactly is it that they're getting out of Fians and Khan's Guards that would somehow be ruined by a balance pass? Is there a way to make both groups of players happy here?

For example, perhaps if there were a perk or something that gave players access to overpowered versions of noble units, that I could avoid easily enough compared to the current situation. A single perk slot is a relatively small loss to not having archers if you play Battanian.

A little self-discipline is not taking anything away from anyone.

So you want a new high tier horse archer unit? A new Battanian archer unit without good skill? What? There are already plenty of those. We don't need to swap out top tier units for new top tier units.

Any noble line troop en-masse is OP. Field 200 Cataphracts or Asari archers all at once and you're going to steamroll any enemy force. Hell, I would hazard a guess that if I fielded 200 tier 1 archers I'd probably smash most AI parties. Sure 200 Fians might be OP. But anything in numbers is. The AI doesn't use any troops like this. They field them in 1s and 2s. Be like the AI.

Point being you have choice. You don't need to strip out a couple of units you think are overpowered when the AI deploys them in a balanced way, because you can't bring yourself to.
 
Elaborate on the exact nature of this strategy.
Strip mine troops, any troops, doesn't matter which troops and speedrun to vassalage. Keep strip mining troops. Once a vassal (which won't take long), immediately form a clan party and give them all your troops, then call them to your army and continue strip mining. After a short time, you have enough influence to call clans to your army. Do that, then start blitzing settlements. Preferably towns because you can strip mine men after you conquer them but castles are so easy to tip over in the first few years that they are good for getting influence. You get so much influence, food, gold from loot, etc. you can feed your army off of it, keeping it intact permanently.

Kill enemy armies when you stumble across them, take loads of prisoners but never sell them. Never defend anything with your army, just attack, attack, attack. Whenever you can form a new clan party, do it, give them all your troops and call them into your army for free. Keep strip mining every village nearby (including forced recruiting), converting prisoners (even Looters) and hiring all the tavern mercs.

Done right, your army is actually getting bigger despite the fact you're losing troops hand over fist to ballistas, leaving garrisons behind, etc. That's because you're building influence and calling in more AI parties to your army along with making the towns and countryside bare of able-bodied men. And that's good because you literally never go back home to recruit or do anything. You just plague enemy factions permanently, taking like twenty, thirty or more settlements from them every year.

There are probably subtleties or nuances I missed because the guy was speaking Korean 90% of the time but that's the jist of it.
 
A little self-discipline is not taking anything away from anyone.

So you want a new high tier horse archer unit? A new Battanian archer unit without good skill? What? There are already plenty of those. We don't need to swap out top tier units for new top tier units.

Any noble line troop en-masse is OP. Field 200 Cataphracts or Asari archers all at once and you're going to steamroll any enemy force. Hell, I would hazard a guess that if I fielded 200 tier 1 archers I'd probably smash most AI parties. Sure 200 Fians might be OP. But anything in numbers is. The AI doesn't use any troops like this. They field them in 1s and 2s. Be like the AI.

Point being you have choice. You don't need to strip out a couple of units you think are overpowered when the AI deploys them in a balanced way, because you can't bring yourself to.

How does not using Fians give me a Battanian archer that isn't ridiculously overpowered? How does it replace recruitment slots with units I'd actually use? Until you can answer that basic question you're just repeatedly ignoring what I've actually said and trying to awkwardly rephrase it into a straw man argument sprinkled with pointless ad hominems and speculation about my motive.

I am already not using them and explained the concept of an opportunity cost to you, but if you can tell me it's just a discipline issue, I can speculate about your own psychology and say you must need to use overpowered units to succeed.

Regardless, these are both completely stupid and irrelevant arguments, but you can't appeal to one without arguing on the level that the other would be just as valid. If any noble line troop en-masse is OP, why do you even care if Khan's Guard and Fians are brought down to the same level of OP as the other noble troops? Shouldn't it make no difference to you?

Currently, the whole reason they receive so much attention is that they're beyond the pale overpowered, otherwise this kind of thread would not be so common. The game can also have more than one balance issue, that stacking noble troops is too easy and powerful is a separate issue than noble troop balance relative to eachother, but both can coexist to make battles less engaging.

I want troops that make battles more engaging in general, and I've made a case for specific reasons the Khan's Guard and Fian are currently working against that end rather than for it. Lowering their armor levels could make them more glass cannon, giving them less powerful melee weapons could make them less of a "master of all trades", reducing their bow/arrow damage or ammunition count could also just tone them down a bit. There are many options that could preserve their basic aesthetic and functional role without "stripping them out" entirely.

And as I said, I don't care what units you use - mod the game for all I care if you want absurdly overpowered units. It's just not a serious or good argument to whine about losing something overpowered unless you want to say balance doesn't matter at all - but of course, clearly balance does matter to some players and clearly the developers agree which is why they do make balancing changes - even if players disagree on whether it's too much or enough, it's not a non-factor.
 
And as I said, I don't care what units you use - mod the game for all I care if you want absurdly overpowered units. It's just not a serious or good argument to whine about losing something overpowered unless you want to say balance doesn't matter at all - but of course, clearly balance does matter to some players and clearly the developers agree which is why they do make balancing changes - even if players disagree on whether it's too much or enough, it's not a non-factor.
You don't actually seem to believe this, as your argument is that the units we use shouldn't be there.

Perhaps you should be the one who lives by your suggestion, and mods the game to remove the units you don't like, seeing as you don't seem to have the self discipline to not recruit them...
 
Cavalry in China, Japan and all across central asia used swinging polearms all the time, it was probably the most common horseback melee weapon in those areas for centuries.
Do you always revise history on the spot to try to be correct?

No they weren't. They were neither the most common, nor were they used in the way you are implying.

The vast majority of long chopping/swinging weapons were meant for when you were knocked OFF your horse, or they were cavalry who dismounted by design. This is something grossly under represented in all forms of post-classical media.
 
Strip mine troops, any troops, doesn't matter which troops and speedrun to vassalage. Keep strip mining troops. Once a vassal (which won't take long), immediately form a clan party and give them all your troops, then call them to your army and continue strip mining. After a short time, you have enough influence to call clans to your army. Do that, then start blitzing settlements. Preferably towns because you can strip mine men after you conquer them but castles are so easy to tip over in the first few years that they are good for getting influence. You get so much influence, food, gold from loot, etc. you can feed your army off of it, keeping it intact permanently.

Kill enemy armies when you stumble across them, take loads of prisoners but never sell them. Never defend anything with your army, just attack, attack, attack. Whenever you can form a new clan party, do it, give them all your troops and call them into your army for free. Keep strip mining every village nearby (including forced recruiting), converting prisoners (even Looters) and hiring all the tavern mercs.

Done right, your army is actually getting bigger despite the fact you're losing troops hand over fist to ballistas, leaving garrisons behind, etc. That's because you're building influence and calling in more AI parties to your army along with making the towns and countryside bare of able-bodied men. And that's good because you literally never go back home to recruit or do anything. You just plague enemy factions permanently, taking like twenty, thirty or more settlements from them every year.

There are probably subtleties or nuances I missed because the guy was speaking Korean 90% of the time but that's the jist of it.
Post the video.
 
Post the video.
You want me to track down the video of an hours long Bannerlord stream from over a year ago?

edit: I actually talked about it in a thread back then:
I watched random streamers to verify that most both have food and money to buy enough, just to triple-check that I'm not unusual. And I'm definitely not: most players have above 20,000 banked within 100 days of a playthrough. There was one exception, but that guy was doing some next-level gigabrain stuff and ran his finances to the absolute breaking point in name of time optimization.
 
Honestly, just make noble troops less common/challenging to get (via cost, EXP, upgradability, availability). AI templates can still have them maybe respawn with a few to start to give them a chance against the player (handicap).
The player can still get a 150 party of KG or EC or Fians, but have it take actual effort and time and/or cost.
 
KGs are only an issue when the player exploits them. I avoid exploits as they break immersion for me. However, everyone plays games differently, so, it would be wrong to ban alternative play-styles and exploits. IMO the split Khuzait Noble Line looks a good idea for a mod. I suggest you publish it.
Done: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/4891

Tried to include enough options that will hopefully have something for everyone.

As I said in the last sentence, they are taking away from players who want balanced units in their place. And as I also said, not recruiting them does not result in getting more balanced units, so it is not a solution to the problem.

There's a clear difference between exploits you can just completely ignore because you have to go out of your way to use them anyway, and imbalanced troops which you have to go out of your way to avoid. Imbalanced troops results in multiple factions having fewer units to choose from for someone who wants a balanced experience. I cannot avoid Fians and Khan's Guards as if they're not filling recruitment slots other units would take, as well as being the only T6 option for two factions and for one faction the only archer.
Exactly

I want there to be at least some semblance of balance in my game. There is no balance with Khan Guards; yes the A.I. generally uses them poorly like all HA, but they still run out of arrows in larger battles. And that's when they can go to town. If the A.I. could switch HA to Hold-Fire when under attack wouldn't they be a big problem? (This is probably something A.I. should do, but whatever)

I mean if the Khuzait Noble Line was just "Shock Cavalry" only armed with swinging polearms, that'd be fine. Yeah they'd be kinda OP, but at least there's ways to counter such a unit. There is no way to reliably counter Khan's Guard in their current configuration. They are straight up broken. I mean imagine if you put Legionaries in Shieldwall Formation and it would take 3-5x the number of T5 Infantry to beat them. That's not "clever" it's just bad design unless Legionaries cost like 3x the recruitment/upkeep of other T5 Infantry.

Or do we just make all T4-T6 Cavalry bow equipped Glaive/Voulge/Menavliaton super soldiers?


Here's my challenge to any who say the Khan's Guard are "fine" or "well the A.I. is dumb and can't really use them"

In Samatha Valley scene in a Custom Battle/EBT, with a 100 vs 100 battle (or 200 if you really want). You may use any party composition of your own (except Khan's Guard/Torguud/Kheshig) to attempt to defeat a party of ALL Khan's Guard controlled by the A.I.

If after attempting to do so you can honestly say there isn't a problem with Khan's Guard (provide some kind of proof screenshot/video, description of what you did) then maybe I will relent Khan's Guard aren't that bad.


Some additional stipulations:
  • You may only use EBT, no other mods/funny business
  • You have to complete the battle in 30 minutes or less
  • Uninstalling the game doesn't count
Have fun!
 
Here's my challenge to any who say the Khan's Guard are "fine" or "well the A.I. is dumb and can't really use them"

In Samatha Valley scene in a Custom Battle/EBT, with a 100 vs 100 battle (or 200 if you really want). You may use any party composition of your own (except Khan's Guard/Torguud/Kheshig) to attempt to defeat a party of ALL Khan's Guard controlled by the A.I.

If after attempting to do so you can honestly say there isn't a problem with Khan's Guard (provide some kind of proof screenshot/video, description of what you did) then maybe I will relent Khan's Guard aren't that bad.

Overall I agree with you but this challenge is too easy (I think additional stipulations are in order - like no hugging the edge of the map) and the solution was obvious (camp fians at the edge of the map and bug out the horse archer AI) +edit(tested and it works with vlandian sharpshooters too, probably a variety of archers can pull it off) -

hZuk4nK.jpg
 
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Overall I agree with you but this challenge is too easy (I think additional stipulations are in order - like no hugging the edge of the map) and the solution was obvious (camp fians at the edge of the map and bug out the horse archer AI) +edit(tested and it works with vlandian sharpshooters too, probably a variety of archers can pull it off) -

hZuk4nK.jpg
Yes any Archer will do, heck probably even T3-T4 Archers. Pretty much knew someone was going to post with Corner/Edge Cheese. Generally I don't enjoy discovering how bad the A.I. in this game is when it essentially can't follow railroad tracks. That said I didn't expect the HA to break down so bad it just sits there at boundary (good grief):
RuJrFDm.jpg


Though if you're smart enough to know about Corner/Edge Cheese you should also be knowledgeable enough to know Khan's Guard are completely out of whack in any normal open battlefield situation.

Hmm kinda hard to verify "Boundary Camping" also what's too close? I'd suggest a Siege challenge, but A.I. is absolutely rubbish in that as well and is ripe for all sorts of abuse. Was a bit surprised even in Melee-Only Khan's Guard can't finish the job, though guess I shouldn't be surprised Cavalry A.I. just can't deal with a corner.

j9eifu1.jpg


Heck even Vlandian Pikeman start do well in a corner against Banner Knights.

Maybe it is time to uninstall the game though... if units are this badly balanced, A.I. just doesn't work whether it's a siege or corner IDK.
 
You want me to track down the video of an hours long Bannerlord stream from over a year ago?
So if it's from many patches ago why do you think it's the be all end all authority on the most effective way to play the game when it's over a year old?
The game has changed in multiple ways since then and I suspect the streamer was using unintended exploits of some kind too.

Either way it's a moot point because if the best way to play the game is to ignore half the game mechanics, that should be changed too.

Bannerlord doesn't need to be speedrunner-proof, but its mechanics and different troop types should at the very least not be waving the fact in your face that there's no point in doing them and you're operating at half efficiency. Or that your elite troops kill everything effortlessly before your regular troops can even get in range to fight.
That was previously my recommendation, yes.
What a terrible idea. Hopefully you were being sarcastic. Making every T4-T6 troop use the same weapons would be very boring.

Khan's Guard can easily be made acceptably balanced in many simple ways. Eg taking the glaive and replacing it with a saber, or reducing the quality of their armour, or nerfing the glaive itself so it does sensible damage.
 
So if it's from many patches ago why do you think it's the be all end all authority on the most effective way to play the game when it's over a year old?
The game has changed in multiple ways since then and I suspect the streamer was using unintended exploits of some kind too.

Either way it's a moot point because if the best way to play the game is to ignore half the game mechanics, that should be changed too.
I think it is optimal because it was the fastest I'd ever seen and not exploiting any bugs that have since been patched out.

The early game towns still have limited fortification levels and defensive buildings at the game start. The starter garrisons are still small. The campaign AI has been made much dumber, if anything. Recruiting works the same way, although it is easier/more common to get high-tier troops. The AI parties still drop off troops in every settlement you enter. Fresh parties can still be called to armies. Army cohesion can still be topped up using influence. Players can still take troops from their clan parties. The limiting player resources (food, influence, gold) have a similar economy or the same. Sieges have gotten easier since they fixed ladders and towers.

Plowing through settlements without giving a **** about your troops isn't exploiting anything, just mastering the various systems already in place -- open recruitment, early game fortification/garrison weakness, player mana generation, AI decision-making and live sieges favoring the attackers.

If I wanted to link an actual speedrun, filled with the usual speedrun-style exploits, I could've just linked Hcaylion or Lesser Scholar's six and seven hour WC speedruns. But both of those very obviously and clearly abuse outright bugs (getting Trade up to 300 in a few minutes), whereas just being the sort of person who literally doesn't give a damn about his troops in M&B is only counterintuitive, not an exploit. I sure as hell didn't figure it out on my own, despite getting hints from Bannerman Man.
Bannerlord doesn't need to be speedrunner-proof, but its mechanics and different troop types should at the very least not be waving the fact in your face that there's no point in doing them and you're operating at half efficiency. Or that your elite troops kill everything effortlessly before your regular troops can even get in range to fight.
That would involve a complete overhaul of Bannerlord's combat.

edit: As for the bit about elite troops killing everything is working at crosspurpose with the desire to make troop differences meaningful. In battles ranging in size between 1-1000 troops that are divided by a grab bag of dozens of types, only huge differences in effectiveness are noticable. You can tell the difference between shielded and unshielded, well-armored and basically naked, on horse or on foot, ranged or melee, sure. That's plenty obvious. But you need sterile room, 500v500 tests to see if one type of similar unit is better than another, which is something that never happens in the campaign, and can be "broken" by the player simply issuing one or two intelligent commands.
What a terrible idea. Hopefully you were being sarcastic. Making every T4-T6 troop use the same weapons would be very boring.
I was being completely serious when I said that if noble troops are going to be rare and desirable for players, they need to be powerful, and not just, "Oh, here's a slightly better horse archer or lancer." Because outside of aesthetics or RP, there is no reason to care by time you're in a position to afford them if that's the case.
 
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The problem lies not only in whether or not the KG has a glaive equipped, but in other factors that Taleworlds are not interested in modifying 😌🎻.

The glaive: I am of the opinion (I have commented on it several times) that the glaive for Khuzait should exist and not be taken away/eliminated, becoming an exotic weapon. Jacob and others point to its widespread use in Asia and I agree that this type of weapon and its use on horseback is documented and feasible. The problem, once again, is that this type of weapon is not well adapted to combat on horseback in Bannerlord.

Animations: the swing animations (which I have talked about ad nauseam along with other forumites) are too permissible, I mean... the swing angles when executing a hit and how the animations are executed are far from a halfway realistic use. Here's a real-life swing and here-here the feedback.

giphy.gif

Now compare with the brushing-helicopter Bannerlord animation :roll:.

Speed bonus: Two problems come together here, the still present inconsistencies of the damage/protection formula and the damage bonus when applying the speed variable to the formula. It is outrageous and overwhelming to me that this has not been significantly reduced. We can see its grotesque effects also in the landing of a javelin and how the agent is blasted away when going into ragdoll mode.

Polearms, 2h swords and bad uses: Should all weapons behave in the same way when on horseback or on foot? My answer is no. It is urgent to apply restrictions on the use and adaptations of animations. It's what I've always said... you can shoot a mary rose style longbow on horseback or wield a halberd... well... technically yes, however don't expect to get the same result as when you're on the ground. Try a lateral swing when mounting with a 2h sword with no stirrups... dentist visit 100%.

Ranged + shock = aberration: My crusade against the Fiann is well known... two-handed shock weapons + ranged role and good armor on top of that? Oh mama... Same with KG.

I quote directly from the wiki:

In the original Mount&Blade, as with all Khergit units, they were usually armed with some form of missile weapon. However in Warband, the Khergit Lancers have been altered to fulfill solely a melee function, and they have lost their ranged capabilities. Some of them now ride heavier Steppe Chargers into battle, and their lack of bows have been compensated with heavier set of melee weapons.

1Ujc9.jpg

Again quoting Orion...
Orion said: It's almost as if Warband had this exact same problem in the beta [...] Yet here we are, 10 years later, repeating old mistakes. [...]

In short, yes to glaive but no to the current implementation of use. Rework the horseback swing hit animations for polearms/2h swords and hit windows angles, apply restrictions on their use (a 2m pole is not viable on horseback if you want to swing it for example) and speed/damage penalties. Rework speed bonus effect.

So, what's the solution?...plain and simple for me. Remove KG's ranged factor if you want to keep the armoured factor... the rest of the tree branches will still work... melee cavalry with spears (medium cavalry role with medium armor) and mounted archers (light cavalry/horse archers with low armor).
 
Maybe just make the glaive a couched swinging weapon or something lol. Or really just a more locked up animation. Something to make it a bit more awkward and finnicky to use.
 
Overall I agree with you but this challenge is too easy (I think additional stipulations are in order - like no hugging the edge of the map) and the solution was obvious (camp fians at the edge of the map and bug out the horse archer AI) +edit(tested and it works with vlandian sharpshooters too, probably a variety of archers can pull it off) -

hZuk4nK.jpg
I did this challenge
Khan's Guard are really op but they are incredible idiots when you get them to the edge of the map. They are like a killer death robot with an off switch. So even if the devs never nerf these potato heads just move to the edge of the map and destroy them. That is the krpytonite and since they are so broken and op anyways I would shamelessy use it everytime
 
edit: As for the bit about elite troops killing everything is working at crosspurpose with the desire to make troop differences meaningful. In battles ranging in size between 1-1000 troops that are divided by a grab bag of dozens of types, only huge differences in effectiveness are noticable. You can tell the difference between shielded and unshielded, well-armored and basically naked, on horse or on foot, ranged or melee, sure. That's plenty obvious. But you need sterile room, 500v500 tests to see if one type of similar unit is better than another, which is something that never happens in the campaign, and can be "broken" by the player simply issuing one or two intelligent commands.

I was being completely serious when I said that if noble troops are going to be rare and desirable for players, they need to be powerful, and not just, "Oh, here's a slightly better horse archer or lancer." Because outside of aesthetics or RP, there is no reason to care by time you're in a position to afford them if that's the case.

I think with this in mind, the biggest difference between troop types comes when recruits get shields. Whether a Khans Guard has a glaive or a sword or a spear is relatively meaningless when AI parties only field a smattering of them. But I agree, for them to have value to the player, they should be both rare, and OP above and beyond their non-noble equivalent. This is a matter of availability, not of the unit's fit-out or ability.
 
The campaign AI has been made much dumber, if anything.
In what way?
Recruiting works the same way, although it is easier/more common to get high-tier troops.
There you go, that's already a major change when taken cumulatively.
Army cohesion can still be topped up using influence
And TW says they want to rebalance influence gain, implying they don't want it to be so disposable for player/ai at a certain point.
Plowing through settlements without giving a **** about your troops isn't exploiting anything, just mastering the various systems already in place -- open recruitment, early game fortification/garrison weakness, player mana generation, AI decision-making and live sieges favoring the attackers.
What I said was that the game shouldn't be built so you're outright ignoring the mechanics. If not giving a **** about your troop tier or survivability is the best way to play the game (making both the level up and medicine healing mechanics pointless) then that should be changed.

Anyway this hypothetical year-old video of yours is not evidence for anything until it's actually posted so its actual applicability to the current game can be discussed. Failing that, post a more current video.
edit: As for the bit about elite troops killing everything is working at crosspurpose with the desire to make troop differences meaningful. In battles ranging in size between 1-1000 troops that are divided by a grab bag of dozens of types, only huge differences in effectiveness are noticable. You can tell the difference between shielded and unshielded, well-armored and basically naked, on horse or on foot, ranged or melee, sure. That's plenty obvious. But you need sterile room, 500v500 tests to see if one type of similar unit is better than another, which is something that never happens in the campaign, and can be "broken" by the player simply issuing one or two intelligent commands.

I was being completely serious when I said that if noble troops are going to be rare and desirable for players, they need to be powerful, and not just, "Oh, here's a slightly better horse archer or lancer." Because outside of aesthetics or RP, there is no reason to care by time you're in a position to afford them if that's the case.
The other T6 units DO feel meaningful in mixed battles, so that entire argument falls apart.

Elite Cataphracts for example will outlast almost everything on the battlefield in melee when mounted, and bowl over infantry. They feel like a properly balanced threat. You can see them racking up kills for the entirety of the battle and even taking on groups alone and still surviving. If arrow damage to armour was properly balanced they would even become stronger still.

Other T6 units are proof that Khan's Guard do not need to be this insane combination of damage, range, mobility and tankiness all in the same package in order to feel noticeable.

Saying "they can only be blatantly overpowered or unnoticeable" is fallacious, false dilemma reasoning. There is always a middle point when you're dealing with numbers.
This is a matter of availability, not of the unit's fit-out or ability.
Even if noble troops were made, say, half as common, Khan's Guards would still be way too strong anyway. So yes, it is a matter of the unit's fit-out and ability, because any of you have failed to explain why it is necessary for KGs to be so blatantly, immersion breakingly overpowered to the point that they slaughter every other noble troop 2:1 or better.

Literally just give one reason why they shouldn't be nerfed. You can't.
 
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