Aprikosenmann
Knight
On DivA yes
BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament
BEAST is the first Bannerlord Skirmish tournament in Europe.
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Possible Beast 3 system
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Knight
The placings will be fairly accurate within the limits of the game as it stands now. Far more accurate than any single (or double) elimination system.
However because this game is still in early access and still being balanced and because admins still need adequate tools, a completely fair tournament is not yet possible.
Tournaments give some indication of who are the most skilled teams but they are run also to amuse the players and to promote engagement. What we should all want is more players engaged in competitive play and a growing scene, we won't get that catering only to the top few teams.
Totally agreed. 1-2 teams get easy matches ALL THE TIME, which gets them first place, even tho they wouldn't stand a chance against a proper team.
I don't care too much for what exactly the next format will be as long as it's not the one this tournament.
In 5 weeks of playing my team got:
-1x default win
-1x pretty easy win (Enigma - sorry boys, don't mean to trashtalk you)
-2x DM1
-1x an actually good match that ended in an exact draw (DR1)
So for me, one out of five weeks was actually interesting. Bit sad. New system was worth a try, didn't work, at least for us.
In 5 weeks of playing my team got:
-1x default win
-1x pretty easy win (Enigma - sorry boys, don't mean to trashtalk you)
-2x DM1
-1x an actually good match that ended in an exact draw (DR1)
So for me, one out of five weeks was actually interesting. Bit sad. New system was worth a try, didn't work, at least for us.
Lol, Argentum is pooping all over around again. Dont mind him @Aeronwen and @Ikea Knight. He started a drama in our Russian tourney too. Seems like its impossible to satisfy such horny boi.
And to everybody, who cares much about randomness etc, id like to say. Bucholz, RR, double elimination - its all not that important if two first places be like DM and RM, or RM and DM =) I mean, any of u remember exact places of every team from previous tourney, except 1st and 2nd places? Who was 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. Tbh, no one cares.
And if you are afraid in dropping down to Division B, then im sure u are strong enough to beat any of Division B teams in promotion matches.
And to everybody, who cares much about randomness etc, id like to say. Bucholz, RR, double elimination - its all not that important if two first places be like DM and RM, or RM and DM =) I mean, any of u remember exact places of every team from previous tourney, except 1st and 2nd places? Who was 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. Tbh, no one cares.
And if you are afraid in dropping down to Division B, then im sure u are strong enough to beat any of Division B teams in promotion matches.
Well, this is one of the weak points we had and you can blame the def wins completely on one team quitting after one match. I mean, this is a meme already, so I'm not going to into this further.
Contrary for DR1:
KW (Win and payback for QF BEAST#1)
DoF (Draw, but very exciting due to our comeback)
RM (got stomped, gg wp)
KW again (Draw, most intense match I played in BL so far, both teams wanted to win very hard to prove a point)
Enigma (Draw, Enigma fought well and DR again is cursed by crashes when it's the most important...)
I certainly had my fun fighting tooth and nail each week and we got actually served cool opponents, but I can see why people are pissed because the ranking might appear unfair.
I would have liked to be third place, but I can't say I didn't have my fun, it's been exciting for us at least.
Regarding the game mode: the way skirmish is designed, I wanna say that one point more in RD per match is something I think should not be considered the match winning factor. Sets are good since it's giving you an objective and allows the employment of eco-strats, which otherwise can not be employed because you have to win every round. A compromise here should be found. Not really sure yet, but I will try to come up with a detailed suggestion about could be done.
i dont care about the final ranking, I just dont like having only one out of five potential matches that is actually interesting.
drops always happen, if one drop manages to throw off the system this badly, the system should be changed.
also unity should have never been div a
drops always happen, if one drop manages to throw off the system this badly, the system should be changed.
also unity should have never been div a
It's easy to say that in hindsight, but I'll admit that I had my reservations about it as well from a personal point of view, but still greenlight it as administrator. In the end it can't be changed and we can only take it as lesson learnt.
Aprikosenmann
Knight
Lets see how it would have looked with Round Robin:
-1x default win
-1x pretty easy win (Enigma)
- 2x RM/DM
- 2x an actually good match (DR, KW)
Conclusion: You are right, this one would have been slightly better.
Maybe you can arrange a match with KW as unofficial Week 6 as if it was RR
missing Res, no?Lets see how it would have looked with Round Robin:
-1x default win
-1x pretty easy win (Enigma)
- 2x RM/DM
- 2x an actually good match (DR, KW)
Conclusion: You are right, this one would have been slightly better.
Maybe you can arrange a match with KW as unofficial Week 6 as if it was RR
As you are well aware, it is not a new system but, on the contrary, the system that has been used in the MOST successful Warband tournament the WNL. The only difference being that the WNL moved to 'no rematches at all' rule.
Also, as you are well aware, if teams drop/don't turn up then there will be default wins. The only option admins would have to reduce drops is a pay-for-entry system (I would not support this for many reasons).
in a very small div you had 3 x 12-0 matches, that shows the skill divide within the pool. Again there is not much admins can do about that. We cannot magic up better teams out of nowhere. A different system won't change the teams skill level.
You may be interested to know that a similar drop in a RR system would cause greater issues.
I dont understand this part. Can you please explain? As fas as I know, everyone would get the 3 points default win then, and not just the team with the lower buchholzscore of the day.
We also would have to revert all matches that were played against that team into default wins.
Which rewards team that lost against a dropped team and is unsatisfactory to any team that managed to win against the dropped team.
Okay, thank you. I dont think this is a problem, since this is way more fair to all teams then just rewarding teams with low Buchholzscore 3 Points.
I see your argument of "fun" and "feeling" ["satisfaction" was the word you used]. I dont think this matters at all (for Liga A!). Reverting Matches is more Work for Administration -sure, very well it is. But adding points to team seem managable from a non-administration-lazy-person point of view such as myself. Rewarding a Team that lost because of a drope, seams fair to me to be honest. I dont have a Problem with that at all.
With the reasoning you provided, I cant support the thesis of RR having more trouble with a drop.
edit: corrected loss to drop.
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it i s not more trouble for the admins it is more frustrating for the teams. every drop makes the team pool smaller so there are more weeks without games. As with RR the result tends to be clear before the the last few weeks we might have more drops later in teh tourney.
but maybe there will be no drops at all. its worth trying if thats what teams want.
personally I'd still prefer having fewer matches but actually playing all teams (that don't drop) over what I've had happen this tournament, but I obviously don't know if the majority agrees.
Well.
We will have a round robin for the next tournament.
Looking at this expressive poll I think that's what the players want.
We will have a round robin for the next tournament.
Looking at this expressive poll I think that's what the players want.
I'm afraid RR will cause alot more dropouts if I'm honest.
Won't certain teams, if they see they won't be able to reach much anymore, just quit playing and hand out defaults or just leave the tournament?
The reason right now for some teams not having had close matchups all the time has alot more to do with the overall difference in skill level than it has to do with this BHS format I'd say.
For the large majority of teams this tournament has been fun and fair, look at division B with the amount of close matches it had for example.
Every season there will be teams and people complaining about the format no matter which format you choose, and a thread just like this one will return each season.
Won't certain teams, if they see they won't be able to reach much anymore, just quit playing and hand out defaults or just leave the tournament?
The reason right now for some teams not having had close matchups all the time has alot more to do with the overall difference in skill level than it has to do with this BHS format I'd say.
For the large majority of teams this tournament has been fun and fair, look at division B with the amount of close matches it had for example.
Every season there will be teams and people complaining about the format no matter which format you choose, and a thread just like this one will return each season.
Unity dropout problem should have been dealt with moving one team from B to A and from C to B immediately. This would still be messy but easier to deal with and more importantly no chain def wins. Dropouts are a problem irrelevant of the system used (or could have been used) except Double Elim, and preferably they would have been eliminated in double elim before they impoloded. Double Elim would also take around the same time (if there were 4 divisions and RR in Div D since their number might not be 8 at all times).
If teams imploding is a fright for the admin team, they should never trust in any other system than Double Elim since teams are most likely to implode get eliminated before they do or they only ruin one match.
As some people have referenced, buscholz is aplicable when there are a large amount of teams in a single division and I think this oversight is what caused some teams to have a set of unsatisfactory matches.
My main gripe with the system is it nullifying the importance of Round Differential. Altough my team didnt experience it this tourney, the feeling of winning by rounds but drawing due to maps should be avoided at all costs (this happened to some teams).
I also beleive for our community; dividing C into C and D and having a round robin is the most civil choice atm, and for the first time in Bannerlord democracy agrees with me.
Edit: For example WTF has same points with RS2, and has better Round Differential than WTF and according to rounds has drawn us once and bet us once but yet they are the last place instead of us. Which must feel awful I presume. (It was cool to find an example that we were the bad guys ahah)
If teams imploding is a fright for the admin team, they should never trust in any other system than Double Elim since teams are most likely to implode get eliminated before they do or they only ruin one match.
As some people have referenced, buscholz is aplicable when there are a large amount of teams in a single division and I think this oversight is what caused some teams to have a set of unsatisfactory matches.
My main gripe with the system is it nullifying the importance of Round Differential. Altough my team didnt experience it this tourney, the feeling of winning by rounds but drawing due to maps should be avoided at all costs (this happened to some teams).
I also beleive for our community; dividing C into C and D and having a round robin is the most civil choice atm, and for the first time in Bannerlord democracy agrees with me.
Edit: For example WTF has same points with RS2, and has better Round Differential than WTF and according to rounds has drawn us once and bet us once but yet they are the last place instead of us. Which must feel awful I presume. (It was cool to find an example that we were the bad guys ahah)
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