PoP planned for Bannerlord ?

[Khabal]

Is this new Mount and Blade Bannerlord any good?

Bannerlord is better than vanilla Warband in almost every aspect; does it worth the money? IMHO, yes, absolutely, 100%

But on a side note, do I play Bannerlord more than Warband? The honest answer is no, and it's because a very simple reason: Warband has Prophesy of Pendor mod, Bannerlord hasn't.

I don't play Warband anymore, I play Prophesy of Pendor; I've enjoyed Bannerlord a lot, but I need Prophesy of Pendor, so I guess it will be a long time until I play BL again.

 

[ssssnake]

I would happily put $200 into a Kickstarter campaign and spend another $100 to purchase a pendor dlc. Given how many hours I've played pendor, $300 would be a bargain for a pendor banner lord dlc.

 

[falconmwo]

there is some information???

 

[saxondragon]

The only thing I feel I can share is that I am in the early analysis phase. Meaning, I am running through several playthroughs of Bannerlord to get a sense of what features are partially implemented, what systems needs to be streamlined and improved, and what features are missing. I have many unanswered questions on mid to late game play and how the systems work and what the player experience is during this phase of play. I am 1000 days in on multiple playthroughs and still feel I have not experienced everything I want to in order to start making a design document.

 

[Plasquar]

All I read between the lines is that we will have PoP for Bannerlord at some point.

 

[NoriSilverrage]

I would happily put $200 into a Kickstarter campaign and spend another $100 to purchase a pendor dlc. Given how many hours I've played pendor, $300 would be a bargain for a pendor banner lord dlc.

Gonna echo this. If donations or something similar would help get this to be a real thing. I would happily donate!
Bannerlords has a lot of very nice changes and tweaks. It's a huge improvement over Warbands, but it doesn't have the soul of something like PoP.

 

[Ragnar the Pendorian]

POP the conquest

 

[Pacific_Salmon]

I would happily put $200 into a Kickstarter campaign and spend another $100 to purchase a pendor dlc. Given how many hours I've played pendor, $300 would be a bargain for a pendor banner lord dlc.

I agree, I'd happily donate some $$$ to get Pendor in Bannerlord. PoP is my favorite game of all time probably. So it would be well worth it.

 

[Jammen690]

I would happily put $200 into a Kickstarter campaign and spend another $100 to purchase a pendor dlc. Given how many hours I've played pendor, $300 would be a bargain for a pendor banner lord dlc.

Give me a link and I will donate as well. As others have said, I don't play warband anymore, I play The Prophesy of Pendor! I was actually considering reinstalling to do another playthrough of Pendor and lucked into this thread.

 

[froggyluv]

Alls I can say is heres hoping -SaxonDragon is a premier professional when its comes to modding. Ive been on more mod teams than have fingers but this guy stood out head and shoulders above anyone ive come across in the field - studio would be lucky to have him - a fully sanctioned DLC should be a no brainer for TaleWorlds

 

[ijese]

+1 on donations - sign me up

 

[Pind]

Bannerlord is better than vanilla Warband in almost every aspect; does it worth the money? IMHO, yes, absolutely, 100%

But on a side note, do I play Bannerlord more than Warband? The honest answer is no, and it's because a very simple reason: Warband has Prophesy of Pendor mod, Bannerlord hasn't.

I don't play Warband anymore, I play Prophesy of Pendor; I've enjoyed Bannerlord a lot, but I need Prophesy of Pendor, so I guess it will be a long time until I play BL again.

Every time I install Bannerlord to give it another try, within about 3 hours I usually just close it down and download PoP. Did that just now...

 

[Pind]

The only thing I feel I can share is that I am in the early analysis phase. Meaning, I am running through several playthroughs of Bannerlord to get a sense of what features are partially implemented, what systems needs to be streamlined and improved, and what features are missing. I have many unanswered questions on mid to late game play and how the systems work and what the player experience is during this phase of play. I am 1000 days in on multiple playthroughs and still feel I have not experienced everything I want to in order to start making a design document.

Any chance for a direct port over to Bannerlord, using the Warband mod as the design doc?

Having ran a game studio before myself I know that the conditions to create a great game are many and those things are never guaranteed. Prophesy of Pendor on Warband is one of the greatest games ever made, and it is a damn shame that almost noone has played it. Obviously, a lot of people into Warband modding have tried it, but honestly it deserves more of a spotlight-- as is.

As a creator it is understandable that you'd want to build on what you made before. That's a lot of ****ing work to do again just to make the same thing. But for me I see a lot of risk. Please consider doing a direct port which will be a guaranteed success. You could easily get that funded, and it would give you the time to put together a permanent team and give them the time to properly ramp up and gel together. Not to mention the project lead time to deal with all that other **** that comes with starting a company/project from scratch. Then after that first win (which for sure would be a win), you could always make a PoP2 or just keep building!

 

[saxondragon]

Any chance for a direct port over to Bannerlord, using the Warband mod as the design doc?

Having ran a game studio before myself I know that the conditions to create a great game are many and those things are never guaranteed. Prophesy of Pendor on Warband is one of the greatest games ever made, and it is a damn shame that almost noone has played it. Obviously, a lot of people into Warband modding have tried it, but honestly it deserves more of a spotlight-- as is.

As a creator it is understandable that you'd want to build on what you made before. That's a lot of ****ing work to do again just to make the same thing. But for me I see a lot of risk. Please consider doing a direct port which will be a guaranteed success. You could easily get that funded, and it would give you the time to put together a permanent team and give them the time to properly ramp up and gel together. Not to mention the project lead time to deal with all that other **** that comes with starting a company/project from scratch. Then after that first win (which for sure would be a win), you could always make a PoP2 or just keep building!

Thank you Pind for the words of support and encouragement. I am in the ending stages of another project now with a permanent development team. When we are finished, then I will turn the teams attention to POP and Bannerlord. It is not quite that simple as a direct port, as the structure of Bannerlord is not the same as it is in Warband. The clan system for example is integral to Bannerlord and it is not present in Warband. Warband we can own villages, and in Bannerlord that is not possible. The analysis and design needs to answer "where do we cut from or add to" in order to create the ending product. No matter the answer, there is extensive design, artwork, coding and time. I am not so worried about risk here as I am confident we can create an experience that everyone will enjoy for many years. The real question I am interested in answering is "What is the experience, and at what stage of play, do we want to implement?" For example, both POP, Warband and Bannerlord have issues during the latter stages of game play where the game becomes a grind. We need to create different types of challenges and systems to interact with to make play more "succulent" at that stage of the game. One of the more interesting aspects of the Mount&Blade (all versions) system is the transformative mode of play. You and your character grow in terms of what can, and indeed should, be interacted with during play. When we start out we pretty much ignore the larger political game and focus on a single character a few companions and a smattering of soldiers and doing missions. As we "Grow" we start to play the larger game surrounding kingdoms and lords and relationships. In POP we began to address that with the Knighthood order concept. I think that was a good first step, but still needs more pathways to follow and more intrigue, diplomacy options, lord interactions, and Knighthood order interactions to round out that end game experience.

 

[Columbkille]

The real question I am interested in answering is "What is the experience, and at what stage of play, do we want to implement?" For example, both POP, Warband and Bannerlord have issues during the latter stages of game play where the game becomes a grind. We need to create different types of challenges and systems to interact with to make play more "succulent" at that stage of the game. One of the more interesting aspects of the Mount&Blade (all versions) system is the transformative mode of play. You and your character grow in terms of what can, and indeed should, be interacted with during play. When we start out we pretty much ignore the larger political game and focus on a single character a few companions and a smattering of soldiers and doing missions. As we "Grow" we start to play the larger game surrounding kingdoms and lords and relationships. In POP we began to address that with the Knighthood order concept. I think that was a good first step, but still needs more pathways to follow and more intrigue, diplomacy options, lord interactions, and Knighthood order interactions to round out that end game experience.

Thanks for posting this! This is exactly why PoP was the most addictive game I played for many years. The way y'all designed the mid and late game and implemented qualis gems, Knighthood orders, super challenging 'boss' hordes, and cool, super expensive weapons and armor made the player always chase for more.

Bannerlord suffers where PoP excelled. It is a beautiful game, the battles are really something to behold, but I'll a start a new game, play to the point where I can beat any other lord in the open field in battle, and I just start getting bored with the game. It's not immersive enough for me to become enamored by its world nor is it creating any real enticing challenges for me later in the game.

Cannot wait to see what y'all could do with this engine and would be happy to pay almost any amount of money for a game like PoP for Bannerlord.

 

[Praxet]

Thank you Pind for the words of support and encouragement. I am in the ending stages of another project now with a permanent development team. When we are finished, then I will turn the teams attention to POP and Bannerlord. It is not quite that simple as a direct port, as the structure of Bannerlord is not the same as it is in Warband. The clan system for example is integral to Bannerlord and it is not present in Warband. Warband we can own villages, and in Bannerlord that is not possible. The analysis and design needs to answer "where do we cut from or add to" in order to create the ending product. No matter the answer, there is extensive design, artwork, coding and time. I am not so worried about risk here as I am confident we can create an experience that everyone will enjoy for many years. The real question I am interested in answering is "What is the experience, and at what stage of play, do we want to implement?" For example, both POP, Warband and Bannerlord have issues during the latter stages of game play where the game becomes a grind. We need to create different types of challenges and systems to interact with to make play more "succulent" at that stage of the game. One of the more interesting aspects of the Mount&Blade (all versions) system is the transformative mode of play. You and your character grow in terms of what can, and indeed should, be interacted with during play. When we start out we pretty much ignore the larger political game and focus on a single character a few companions and a smattering of soldiers and doing missions. As we "Grow" we start to play the larger game surrounding kingdoms and lords and relationships. In POP we began to address that with the Knighthood order concept. I think that was a good first step, but still needs more pathways to follow and more intrigue, diplomacy options, lord interactions, and Knighthood order interactions to round out that end game experience.

Thank you for your hard work, and for your great POP mod. Made on the basis of Warband, it is so different qualitatively, in every sense. I still play it to this day because it's fun. It has long been subscribed to the pages of POP in various social networks in order to find out news, thoughts about the release of POP on the Bannerlord platform. Seriously, the new POP is intriguing before it even hit development. Will Mattenheim show up, Barclay? What is beyond the forests of the Noldor? or the Rocky Mountains? It's all wildly interesting and intriguing
I think many would be grateful if you found the time to drop a couple of lines about POP on BL))))

 

[Rusmack]

I think there are two things than made late-game PoP much more captivating than any of the two Natives. The first one is that the prophecy made it a clear goal to "reclaim what is yours" and unite Pendor under your rightful rule, something that Native only has as a "challenge run condition", basically. The second one is existence of long term goals for this, such as befriending Noldor or getting many hidden places. Honestly, the fact that every faction has so much inner problems that are going on, it just adds depth to travelling through those areas. Like, you know you will get assaulted by Snake cult in Empire, Heretics in southern Sarleon or Inquisitors in D'shar, and it adds so much character to each region that Native Warband lacks entirely and native Bannerlord underdelivers because, while these groups are there, they are so bland that they trigger no interest whatsoever.
For entirety of the 2021 I've been mastering a tabletop RPG, using PoP as a setting. It was unreal. This world has so much going on, that while I had to add detail to expand the experience, it required so much less from me because the world was so rich in the first place. While at first I wanted to explore bits and pieces of every region with my players, the sheer complexity made me stuck in the Empire and it's inner troubles for a long, long time. And just exploring the map, the family relationships, and the fief distibution among the lords told so much story by itself it was worryingly easy to build lore on top of that. In no time I had so much inner conflict that it kept us entertained for entire year. (for example, why there are three Legatus brothers who all own fiefs in separate parts of the kingdom? Maybe they had something in the past that made them hate and disown each others? Or why Rimusk, cunning bastard, owns two villages, one under a dux and one under an emperor? Why Shadowspawn legion base themselves in Cez and can that mean that Cez and it's lord, Kyros Dux, are rebellious against Marius, who destroys old Empire cultural ways and embraces Pendoric ones? And many many more. Other nations also had similarly interesting distribution of characters (Like multiple barons of Sarleon who own only villages and lords who actually have castles) and it makes me wonder if the devs really considered their placing or is it that my mind is just too creative on creating those backstories.)

 

[saxondragon]

I think there are two things than made late-game PoP much more captivating than any of the two Natives. The first one is that the prophecy made it a clear goal to "reclaim what is yours" and unite Pendor under your rightful rule, something that Native only has as a "challenge run condition", basically. The second one is existence of long term goals for this, such as befriending Noldor or getting many hidden places. Honestly, the fact that every faction has so much inner problems that are going on, it just adds depth to travelling through those areas. Like, you know you will get assaulted by Snake cult in Empire, Heretics in southern Sarleon or Inquisitors in D'shar, and it adds so much character to each region that Native Warband lacks entirely and native Bannerlord underdelivers because, while these groups are there, they are so bland that they trigger no interest whatsoever.
For entirety of the 2021 I've been mastering a tabletop RPG, using PoP as a setting. It was unreal. This world has so much going on, that while I had to add detail to expand the experience, it required so much less from me because the world was so rich in the first place. While at first I wanted to explore bits and pieces of every region with my players, the sheer complexity made me stuck in the Empire and it's inner troubles for a long, long time. And just exploring the map, the family relationships, and the fief distibution among the lords told so much story by itself it was worryingly easy to build lore on top of that. In no time I had so much inner conflict that it kept us entertained for entire year. (for example, why there are three Legatus brothers who all own fiefs in separate parts of the kingdom? Maybe they had something in the past that made them hate and disown each others? Or why Rimusk, cunning bastard, owns two villages, one under a dux and one under an emperor? Why Shadowspawn legion base themselves in Cez and can that mean that Cez and it's lord, Kyros Dux, are rebellious against Marius, who destroys old Empire cultural ways and embraces Pendoric ones? And many many more. Other nations also had similarly interesting distribution of characters (Like multiple barons of Sarleon who own only villages and lords who actually have castles) and it makes me wonder if the devs really considered their placing or is it that my mind is just too creative on creating those backstories.)

Hi Rusmak,

Thanks for the interesting post. To answer your question succinctly, it is both yes, and no. Much of POP was designed explicitly, but other parts were set up to be “implied”.

We as humans are designed to recognize patterns and create meaning from actions. I personally realized this phenomenon years ago when creating a game that used procedural processes to create a game map. The map was “painted” with very generic two layer concepts of “Race” and “Density” that would generate out a fantasy map of cities, towns, castles, villages, manors, monster lairs etc. Race was the predominant racial influence, and density referred to a series of probability tables that dictated what type of “location” it was generating.

What was remarkable was once the map was completed I could “read” the map and determine relationships even though there was no relationship explicitly intended in the generation process. In other words, the “meaning” was extrapolated by myself as I read the map and connected the dots.

The one clear instance of this was when we generated in a wilderness area two Orc castles close to a small human farming village. You clearly knew that the Orcs would raid that village just by their proximity.

In Pendor, we “set the table” so to speak in we created the cultures and backstory and populated castles and villages with lords. Some of it was absolutely explicit some of it was random. The extent of the meaning you likely are creating is a combination of knowing the context of the area and reading the map and looking for connections.

As a role playing gamemaster you are especially primed to create narratives with your players to create a meaningful interactive experience with them. This, creating extensive meaning by reading the game map, is more of a testament to your own skills as a gamemaster and storyteller than something we as designers did in the game world.

This very phenomenon, as you so well-articulated, is one of the main reasons I am a proponent of procedural generation.

 

[samarai]

Thank you Pind for the words of support and encouragement. I am in the ending stages of another project now with a permanent development team. When we are finished, then I will turn the teams attention to POP and Bannerlord. It is not quite that simple as a direct port, as the structure of Bannerlord is not the same as it is in Warband. The clan system for example is integral to Bannerlord and it is not present in Warband. Warband we can own villages, and in Bannerlord that is not possible. The analysis and design needs to answer "where do we cut from or add to" in order to create the ending product. No matter the answer, there is extensive design, artwork, coding and time. I am not so worried about risk here as I am confident we can create an experience that everyone will enjoy for many years. The real question I am interested in answering is "What is the experience, and at what stage of play, do we want to implement?" For example, both POP, Warband and Bannerlord have issues during the latter stages of game play where the game becomes a grind. We need to create different types of challenges and systems to interact with to make play more "succulent" at that stage of the game. One of the more interesting aspects of the Mount&Blade (all versions) system is the transformative mode of play. You and your character grow in terms of what can, and indeed should, be interacted with during play. When we start out we pretty much ignore the larger political game and focus on a single character a few companions and a smattering of soldiers and doing missions. As we "Grow" we start to play the larger game surrounding kingdoms and lords and relationships. In POP we began to address that with the Knighthood order concept. I think that was a good first step, but still needs more pathways to follow and more intrigue, diplomacy options, lord interactions, and Knighthood order interactions to round out that end game experience.

Hi Saxondragon,

Super excited to hear that yourself and your team are dedicated to bringing PoP to Bannerlord. The biggest drawback I saw in the mod (besides the fact that it's barrier to entry was pretty high if you're not cheating (if you're bad at the game like me, lol)) was the vanilla warband combat system, which has gotten a little dated. Of course, we'll have to wait a while, but I'm already mentally salivating at the possibilities of bringing this rich world to Bannerlord's updated engine.

Was just curious, now that PoP seems to be set to move into pre-production relatively soon, is there any way we, as fans, will be able to support you and your teams venture? I'm not much of a coder so I probably wouldn't be able to contribute directly to the development process, but I (and I imagine some others) would probably be happy to drop a certain amount per month via a Patreon or something if it would help you guys substantially.
No worries if it's not something you've thought about yet, but I think I speak for a not-insignificant portion of fans who want to help you bring this vision to life!

 

[Praxet]

Fat agree from me

Hi Saxondragon,

Super excited to hear that yourself and your team are dedicated to bringing PoP to Bannerlord. The biggest drawback I saw in the mod (besides the fact that it's barrier to entry was pretty high if you're not cheating (if you're bad at the game like me, lol)) was the vanilla warband combat system, which has gotten a little dated. Of course, we'll have to wait a while, but I'm already mentally salivating at the possibilities of bringing this rich world to Bannerlord's updated engine.

Was just curious, now that PoP seems to be set to move into pre-production relatively soon, is there any way we, as fans, will be able to support you and your teams venture? I'm not much of a coder so I probably wouldn't be able to contribute directly to the development process, but I (and I imagine some others) would probably be happy to drop a certain amount per month via a Patreon or something if it would help you guys substantially.
No worries if it's not something you've thought about yet, but I think I speak for a not-insignificant portion of fans who want to help you bring this vision to life!