[POLL] There Is Still No Public Roadmap, Will There Ever Be One? - Multiple Dev Response Are Now Included With The Package For Free!

To have a roadmap, or not to have a roadmap, which is your choice?


  • Total voters
    74

Users who are viewing this thread

gallows

Recruit
It's been a while since the talks of a public roadmap swept the forums, but despite all the requests from the community there still seems to be no sights of it. Is it really that hard to make one? I mean that question in the most sincere way, is it really that hard? I think I know why Taleworlds doesn't want to release a public roadmap, but it still doesn't fully make sense. After all this time in early access, folks over at Taleworlds must've asked themselves at some point: is this healthy? This level of public uncertainty, this level of ambiguity. Is this the base of a healthy community? Patience towards Taleworlds and its secretive ways are long gone now, this isn't pre-early access. We all payed our dues, and we deserve at least a base level of respect and inside knowledge about the fundamental long term goals of this project.

This isn't the time to "not create expectations", to "not bring hype up"; times of secrecy are over, whether or not folks over at the Studio gets it. Not sharing a basic roadmap is just causing the community to get frustrated, boil-up and explode into every possible place they can access developers. This situation here is very unnecessary, folks in the community might express it differently, but all they want are answers. All they want is a somewhat coherent image of the finished Bannerlord. So, why not share a long term roadmap? I know commitment is scary, possibility of having to cancel features, but situation is such that it needs to be done.

Here with me are some examples of possible ways to create a roadmap, for the Studios convenience;

Rebel Inc.: Escalation: Made by a small studio with a smash-hit under their belts. It's a very barebones roadmap with no concrete timetables, but it's still more than what we get around here. It's very easy to access, this specific image i've gathered easily from the most recent Steam post of the project (that is to say, no need to visit the forums or discord or any other 3rd party site to it's Steam page).

109bf8eb9405ec85614971fcf8d0964c51d57c4e.jpg

Due Process: First project of a studio consisting of around 16 folks. This is more akin to what I personally would like to see; detailed, timetabled and to the point. This particular roadmap is plastered all over the place, and very easy to get access to. Even a link to it is provided in the games Steam page. (also, if anyone here likes tactical shooters, do give it a look. Even in its unfinished state it's the best tactical FPS I've ever played)

Roadmap of Due Process: https://trello.com/b/bNPEji7l/due-process-roadmap

Star Citizen: Infamous first project of a studio about triple(?) the size of Taleworlds. Not much to say here, i don't expect or want anything of this kind, i personally prefer something like that of Due Process'. I'm putting this here just to provide variety.

Roadmap of Star Citizen: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/progress-tracker/teams


I'm tagging you @Callum, because you're the lead community manager.
I'm tagging you @Duh_TaleWorlds, just because of this :https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ect-another-code-refactor.443538/post-9701724

I would very much appreciate an answer from either of you.
 
Last edited:
Roadmaps = roads to disappointment... Either way, we do have info on what devs are working on, as Duh replied ^.

I still remember some people praising the "Valheim roadmap" (which wasn't even that detailed to begin with). And now it's over 4 months, there hasn't been any significant content added to that game (only the reskin of a troll and 2 bosses so far, which nobody asked for), and the roadmap has been pretty much cut in 2 for this year, we will only be seeing 2 "major updates" instead of 4. Yeah, I don't need a roadmap... I just need TW to keep going as they've been going with the great updates so far 👍. In comparison to many developers (indie and not), they're doing great work as far as I'm concerned.
 

WhyAmIHere

Yeah the roadmap exists. It's a disappointing roadmap that shows that TW isn't planning to add anything in the roleplaying realm and is content with it being a war simulator, but it's there.

Comparing it to Valheim seems awfully silly though being that Valheim is like half a dozen people and Bannerlord is upwards of 100.
 
Do you want a roadmap?
- Yes.
- Indifferent, but Yes.
- No, but actually Yes.

Take a pick. Give me your honest answer (even though you can only pick yes).
 

kreamy

Sergeant
It's been a while since the talks of a public roadmap swept the forums, but despite all the requests from the community there still seems to be no sights of it. Is it really that hard to make one? I mean that question in the most sincere way, is it really that hard? I think I know why Taleworlds doesn't want to release a public roadmap, but it still doesn't fully make sense. After all this time in early access, folks over at Taleworlds must've asked themselves at some point, is this healthy? This level of public uncertainty, this level of ambiguity. Is this the base of a healthy community? Patience towards Taleworlds and its secretive ways are long gone now, this isn't pre-early access. We all payed our dues, and we deserve at least a base level of respect and inside knowledge about the fundamental long term goals of this project.

This isn't the time to "not create expectations", to "not bring hype up"; times of secrecy are over, whether or not folks over at the Studio gets it. Not sharing a basic roadmap is just causing the community to get frustrated, boil-up and explode into every possible place they can access developers. This situation here is very unnecessary, folks in the community might express it differently, but all they want are answers. All they want is a somewhat coherent image of the finished Bannerlord. So, why not share a long term roadmap? I know commitment is scary, possibility of having to cancel features, but situation is such that it needs to be done.

Here with me are some examples of possible ways to create a roadmap, for the Studios convenience;

Rebel Inc.: Escalation: Made by a small studio with a smash-hit under their belts. It's a very barebones roadmap with no concrete timetables, but it's still more than what we get around here. It's very easy to access, this specific image i've gathered easily from the most recent Steam post of the project (that is to say, no need to visit the forums or discord or any other 3rd party site to it's Steam page).

109bf8eb9405ec85614971fcf8d0964c51d57c4e.jpg

Due Process: First project of a studio consisting of around 16 folks. This is more akin to what I personally would like to see; detailed, timetabled and to the point. This particular roadmap is plastered all over the place, and very easy to get access to. Even a link to it is provided in the games Steam page. (also, if anyone here likes tactical shooters, do give it a look. Even in its unfinished state it's the best tactical FPS I've ever played)

Roadmap of Due Process: https://trello.com/b/bNPEji7l/due-process-roadmap

Star Citizen: Infamous first project of a studio about triple(?) the size of Taleworlds. Not much to say here, i don't expect or want anything of this kind, i personally prefer something like that of Due Process'. I'm putting this here just to provide variety.

Roadmap of Star Citizen: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/progress-tracker/teams


I'm tagging you @Callum, because you're the lead community manager.
I'm tagging you @Duh_TaleWorlds, just because of this :https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ect-another-code-refactor.443538/post-9701724

I would very much appreciate an answer from either of you.
should make a change.org petition for one

EDIT: nvm, they have the bullet point roadmaps which are better than nothing. (although, dont seem to indicate much - I feel like what you are talking about is long-term end product milestones (which, maybe, they dont have..?)...) i dunno...

The bullet points seem like short term goals (like this year stuff).
 

gallows

Recruit
These polling options don’t seem incredible objective.
Lmao I love the added "(even though it really wouldn't be)"
Do you want a roadmap?
- Yes.
I promised a poll, never an objective one:lol:.

I'm indeed, these being not much of a roadmap is my issue. Before i mention anything though, it is unnecessarily complicated to get access to. One has to find two different posts, in two different sub-forums in the Studios official forums. Why not just make it a single post and put a link to it in the Steam page (ala Due Process)? Why make people go digging (regardless of how easy it is), just make it into a single post and a put a link to it in the Steam page.

You folks never update these, and these aren't actually roadmaps. What kind of a roadmap never gets updated? "Sandbox Mode", "Ironman Mode", "Prison Break Missions", "Abdication" et cetera have all been added. Why are they still there? Additionally, all the bullet points that end or start with "improve", "balance", "tweak" or "fix" have no place in a roadmap of the kind I'm referring. Those are the kind of stuff you would put in a "persistent updates" section if you want it on a road map, not right next to brand new stuff. Speaking of brand new stuff, some things that are mentioned elsewhere in devblogs aren't found here: like the "Battle Terrain System". Unless the "Improvements to the way the world map interacts with field battles" is the same thing, in which case your messaging is inconsistent.

These two posts combined aren't a roadmap, they're posts for you folks to fall back on. Please, take the time to make an actual roadmap. A roadmap that at least gives a vague sense of the timetable of things (ala Rebel Inc.), makes it clear as to what each bullet point actually is, actually update it, and make it easy to access (put a link to it in the Steam page). To answer my own question: no, it isn't hard to do a roadmap. Why aren't you folks making one?
 
Last edited:

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
Nice moving of the goalpost.

- They didn't make a roadmap even though we asked them for one for so long!
- There's literally been two roadmaps since months ago
- But these are not the kinds of roadmaps that I want and approve of!

Also, you overestimate the importance of roadmaps. They're just a simple and easy way for the developer to tell the players "this is what we may or may not include in the future, so shut up about the roadmap already".
 

Dreed89

Sergeant at Arms

gallows

Recruit
Nice moving of the goalpost.

- They didn't make a roadmap even though we asked them for one for so long!
- There's literally been two roadmaps since months ago
- But these are not the kinds of roadmaps that I want and approve of!

Also, you overestimate the importance of roadmaps. They're just a simple and easy way for the developer to tell the players "this is what we may or may not include in the future, so shut up about the roadmap already".
I knew of those two vague lists already, but as i explained in a very detailed form, when combined they don't make a roadmap. Roadmaps are important for the reasons i explained, they provide the community with a clearer image of the fundamental end goals of the project.

Yes, once a sufficient set of points have been completed, a new post will be provided.
Well, if you gonna bother making a new one, why not make it into a single post and provide a link to it in the Steam page. Just by doing those 2 simple acts, you will get half way to what i was proposing. You can post the combined half-way-there-roadmap to "General Discussion" subforum, instead of separating the two like you've done before. If you folks don't want to give an image of the complete end goals of the Project, than at least make the short-mid term goals easier to access and clearer.
 

five bucks

Squire
Nice moving of the goalpost.

- They didn't make a roadmap even though we asked them for one for so long!
- There's literally been two roadmaps since months ago
- But these are not the kinds of roadmaps that I want and approve of!
gallows said "long-term", so assuming that wasn't added as an edit, the goalposts aren't being moved.

Duh's Statement, while informative and welcome, doesn't appear to be a list of "long-term" goals. It's made mostly of short-term or ongoing things.

@gallows please don't be too harsh on Duh, he isn't paid to be a community manager and chooses to do this stuff in his spare time.
 

gallows

Recruit
gallows said "long-term", so assuming that wasn't added as an edit, the goalposts aren't being moved.

Duh's Statement, while informative and welcome, doesn't appear to be a list of "long-term" goals. It's made mostly of short-term or ongoing things.

@gallows please don't be too harsh on Duh, he isn't paid to be a community manager and chooses to do this stuff in his spare time.
Oh, i didn't know Duh was doing volunteer work, huge props for that. Sorry if I came across as being too harsh on you @Duh_TaleWorlds. I'm just trying to communicate about a matter that I think will improve the state of the community, and the relations between it and the Studio. I wanted to type this because the forums on the Bannerlord's side seems to getting unnecessarily and preventably cluttered with people eager to know more. That's all really, I personally don't even care much about the game, I just want to play something interesting when it's done and that's about it.
 
I like a roadmap as much as the next guy, but it sets expectations.

An example:
Things change - while developing one feature, you find it conflicts with another feature and there either has to be a big time investment to nake both work, or one gets cut, depending which one provides the biggest ROI.

However, a more non-commital roadmap (what to expect in the upcoming months) providing information on developed and ready-to-implement features (such as the feature to assign companions to their own clan, if I read that correctly) would be valuable. An estimated release date (patch 1.6.1) could be added. And if that doesnt happen, a very simple explanation would suffice (feature xxx conflict with xxx: postponed to 1.6.2).

Now it would set expectations, but realistic ones, and with updated communications and non-vague (we might/perhaps/if-the-stars-align) explanations the community would feel more involved.
 

StewVader

Sergeant

You're aware that what you linked is a vague list of nothing right? Your response is a true expression of why this game and TW have lost the community's confidence. The fact that you think that list is a reasonable roadmap or in any way what the community has been asking for, shows not only a true disconnect with the players, but also illustrates how little you seem to care.

You guys should just sell Mount and Blade while you still can, no one will buy games from you again after this fiasco.
 
Sorry if I came across as being too harsh on you @Duh_TaleWorlds.
No worries. I didn't think you were particularly harsh.

I wanted to type this because the forums on the Bannerlord's side seems to getting unnecessarily and preventably cluttered with people eager to know more.
The statements are a balance between sharing current work in progress and not building false impressions / expectations. Both of which are concerns that the community has voiced. Having said that, I do think additional information can be added. (And is, if people inquire in the thread. In particular after initial posting, but also at a later point - when there is time. They are ofc also updated when we release a new statement.)

The initial inquiry towards you was a serious one, since you noted that nothing of the sort exists and you gave a 5 point bulletin list as one of the examples (albeit prettier than what we share).
 
Top Bottom