your opinion on the mechanics proposed in the thread is:

  • I wish that these mechanics are implemented in the nativ game more or less as they are in the thread

    Votes: 20 46.5%
  • I would like it in the base game if the archers were balanced

    Votes: 2 4.7%
  • I wish it was tested and then a survey was opened to decide whether to keep it.

    Votes: 11 25.6%
  • I would like it in the mods

    Votes: 7 16.3%
  • I really don't want it and in the comments section I will argue why!

    Votes: 3 7.0%

  • Total voters

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On bannerlord we have the mechanics of weight that affects the speed of movement and if I am not mistaken, as in warband, defines the ENCUMBRANCE.
So let's take full advantage of it.
If an infantryman with a shield sees an arrow sticking into his shield, the problem does not arise, since there is talk of an addition of 25 grams.
But if this infantryman finds himself having 50 arrows on the shield, then it is 1250 grams, therefore 1.2 kg more.
if an arrow weighed 100 grams, then it would be an addition of 5 kg

If we then consider a javelin, with a weight ranging from 700 grams to 1 kilogram, then we understand that the weight that is added to the shield turns out to be intolerable at some point (4 javelins add 4 kilos ..)

This without considering any properties of the javelin.
For example, a ROMAN PILUM, once stucked in the shield cannot be easily extracted due to the hooks and bends in an attempt to extract it. This in order not to allow the extraction and to be able to encumber the opponent in lifting the shield and moving, which forces the shield holder to throw it to the ground so as not to be hindered.

So I wanted to suggest to the developers, but also to ask the community for an opinion, about adding some mechanics that takes these features into account and makes the game more balanced.

the encumbrance is a mechanic that should be made more and better.
Certainly a soldier in heavy armor has a lot of weight on him but he is certainly not prevented from moving his arms easily.
And maybe one who goes shirtless holds with his two arms a weapon whose moment of inertia is very high and this prevents him from performing fast actions with it, yet his overall weight is low.

Therefore the first subject has a HIGH OVERALL ENCUMBRANCE but a LOW LOCAL ENCUMBRANCE (arms).
The second subject has a LOW OVERALL ENCUMBRANCE but a HIGH LOCAL ENCUMBRANCE (arms).

The weapons have already included the mechanics of the local encumbrance, and it is precisely linked to the different moment of inertia of the various weapons, which depends on the weight and distance from an axis of rotation,and it is evident by the different swing and stabbing speeds.
So there is nothing in weapons (I suppose) to change.

In defense instead (the shields) there is something to do in my opinion.
It is therefore the LOCAL ENCUMBRANCE tied to the arm that bears the shield.

So let's consider 2 types of encumbrance:
-ENCUMBRANCE-WEIGHT: the encumbrance deriving from the weight (shield weight + stuck arrows weight + stuck javelins weight)
-ENCUMBRANCE-SHAPE: the encumbrance deriving from other characteristics (such as a pilum embedded in a shield)
- the sum of the two gives us THE TOTAL ENCUMBRANCE on the affected limb.

here are the mechanics that I want to suggest:
1) link the lifting and displacement speed of the shield to the TOTAL ENCUMBRANCE.
2) tie the speed of movement of the character not only to the total weight (and it is already done through the encumbrance weight) but also to the ENCUMBRANCE-SHAPE.


It would be enough to add a statistic to the various throwing weapons or ammunition: the encumbrance-shape stat.
-the arrows have a very low encumbrance-shape (but a large number of arrows ...).
-javelins already have a high encumbrance-shape (linked to the fact that their center of mass is a little far from the point where they are stuck and this moment of weight force must be balanced by that of the arm, which gets tired over time).
- a pilum has a very high encumbrance-shape, due to the fact that once stuck it CAN FOLD and the encumbrance does not depend as much on the weight as on having a stick that slams on the ground every time you move the shield, forcing you to make a choice : throw the shield or drag it behind me?
The folding of the pilum will happen with a certain probability, not 100%.

clearly these three type of weapons have their encumbrance-weight linked to their weight...

In this way the infantry, while collecting the arrows ON THE SHIELD, acquires a debuff in the movement speed.
Javelins become more useful than arrows against someone with a shield.

This mechanic establishes a SUBSTANTIAL difference between javelins and arrows, which is not a difference based on the damage parameter, but on the weight parameter.

6 javelins on a shield can equal 60 arrows.
In terms of damage?
no, in terms of weight -> encumbrance -> slowdown.
Therefore the javelins have short range and even if they do not inflict damage because they are blocked with a shield, they can give an obstruction such as to force the unit to clean the shield or to throw the shield (on order be clear).
So the arrows need to be fired from a distance and for some time to be able to accumulate on a soldier's shield.
On the other hand, few javelins are thrown, but they weigh so much as to cause annoyance.
Also, not all javelins are created equal.
Why did the Roman soldiers launch the Pilum before charging for the enemy?
to hit the enemy itself?
if they hit it, well, but the main purpose was that the pilum fit into the enemy shield and twisted becoming inextractable from the shield, which therefore had to be thrown away because it was no longer transportable given the increase in encumbrance


In the case of arrows, these can be "broken" by reducing this additional weight by half and you must have time to complete the cleaning animation (3 strokes of your weapon to break the arrows, so you need an associated key to do it) .
That the 3 blows slightly damage the shield I leave it to the people's decision :smile:
If, on the other hand, you do not want to break the arrows but you want to totally remove the obstacle, there are 2 methods:
A) remove the arrows by hand one by one and to do it you have to throw the shield on the ground and extract the arrows individually.
B) throw the shield and look for a clean one.
Since the arrows weigh little, many arrows are needed to have a real encumbrance on the shield and therefore time to shoot them and a great distance that gives that time.
So it's a strategy that requires "distance and / or time"

In the case of javelins, these weigh much more than the arrows, so it takes less to add bulk to the enemy.
They cannot be broken, but you can extract them manually.
Javelins weigh much more than arrows, so it is not strictly necessary to throw a lot of them to annoy the shield-wielding unit.
In this case you need shorter distances and times than archers, therefore from short distances, perhaps one or two javelin throws allow you to step back to launch others and once you run out of ammunition the enemy is forced to make a decision:
1) or to throw shields to chase you, otherwise they would never reach you because of the slowness.
2) keep the shields and abandon the pursuit, but knowing that you are slow keeping those shields and having to choose whether to keep them and not to risk not reaching your companions in time in a given moment of need, or throw them and have a lesser defense to the rest of the battle.
3) abandon the chase, find a place to clean the shields (it takes time) and then go back to battle.

  • The PILUM, once it sticks into the shield, adds a much larger encumbrance than the javelin, not due to the weight, but from the fact that half of the PILUM (all the metal part) has broken through the shield and the entrance hole, acting as a fulcrum, makes the wooden part of the pilum hang towards the ground (thus touching the ground as you move) and the metallic upward towards your face, body or arms.
  • it is possible to extract the PILUM, but only after leaving the shield on the ground, aiming the pilum (which lights up) and pressing the extraction button.​
  • The removal time (duration of the animation) is 3 times longer than that of the removal of normal javelins.​
  • Extraction of the pilum also further damages the shield.​
  • In an attempt to extract it, if the extraction is interrupted (because an enemy is looming and the shield must be taken back), the pilum folds and becomes non-extractable.
  • it is however possible to equip the shield (with increased encumbrance).
  • As long as there is a PILUM embedded in the shield, it is not possible to put the shield on the back.
  • You have less ammo than the javelin.
  • The pilum is a javelin, therefore weight as much as a javelin.

The PILUM strategy is aggressive unlike the simple javelin that must be used by stepping back.
You throw the pilum, hit the enemy shield and then charge.
If the enemy to whom the PILUM stuck in the shield has not let go of the shield, he risks being hindered heavily (he cannot move well).
If you give it up, the risk is that it has to block directionally.
The Pilum, when it is shielded, if it does not fit into the shield it will bend anyway both due to the impact and to the fact that the metal part is made of soft iron just for it to fold, therefore it is unusable if it folds and cannot be raised back, recovered for reuse.
I repeat: unusable if it folds.

axes instead of adding encumbrance-shape (and they do it anyway but in less quantity than javelins) they do shield damage.

all INTEGRAL PROJECTILE (intact arrows, javelins, throwing axes, non-bent pilums, weights etc.) are recoverable and reusable.
Broken arrows and folded pilums are not recoverable.

The idea is to be able to act on the balance between ranged/skirmisher units, units with shields through factors other than damage, armor values or shield resistance.

The idea is very general, so any defects you are free to modify by arguing them.
One thing is clear: If the distance classes are strong (at the moment), this should not exempt us from suggesting mechanics that still make sense.
Alternatively, it is the remote classes that need to be rebalanced, if necessary.

(I tend to use spear infantry classes)
But in general, if you like the idea In general, if you like or attract the idea, give an opinion that it is CONSTRUCTIVE and therefore think about how to hold this mechanic and how to balance the archers.

Know that I have other suggestions regarding the balance between the various units.
This thread may make it appear that you "upgrade" some units remotely, especially archers, but be aware that there are many ways to balance archers.
And I urge you not to consider damage only as parameters, but there are many quantities to work on to bring a balance.
For example:
-reducing accuracy for AI is a method (although a system is needed to tell which enemy unit you want to target).
-Another method could be to "remove the crosshair-reticle".(on the absence of the reticle-sight we say that it will make it an option of the game settings checkable)
-or perhaps add an oscillation that decreases with the increase of the archery skill and that is counterbalanced by the movement of the mouse. (Therefore it simulates having to keep the bow still or crossbow)
- maybe we have to review the damage inflicted on certain types of armor (for example those with a lamellar or plate structure) by the arrows and maybe insert a sort of "glancing" as for the spears, making sure that if the bullet does not hit well, it just deviates (but here the system has to be worked out well, so I urge you to think of one)
At the end of each of my posts,below it, you can see the writing.
Those written are links that take you to the thread I wrote.
They are all hint threads.
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An image fitting this thread:


This is me in captain mode after I (literally) shielded our troops from fire of two squads of Khergit Horse Archers.
I generall i would really like to test the idear.

About pilum bending. This is still getting discussed a lot and i don't think they where really ment to bend.

I actually agree with the videos that the pilum was not meant to bend.
I think from time to time they did bend. But it is not more difficult to remove a bended pilum than a straight one.
I actually agree with the videos that the pilum was not meant to bend.
I think from time to time they did bend. But it is not more difficult to remove a bended pilum than a straight one.

The goal was not to bend completely, but enough to make it difficult and dangerous to rely on the shield again.

The metal was soft enough, but clearly the bending of the metal was not an event that always occurred.
Mainly it was the tip of the metal that did not allow an exit of the weapon from the entrance hole.
The softness of the metal however allowed a series of oscillations which, if accentuated by the struggle (clash between the scutum and the shield) or by the movement or even by the attempt to extract it, could lead to such bends (not necessarily large) that made the shield annoyingly unusable and not removable the pilum.

I share in part what is said in the videos, because the bending of the metal was not to be a consequence of the only impact due to the throw, but also of the series of impacts due to the rest of the fight.

In general the encumbrance increased a lot :smile:
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