Poll: Religion & Myth

[Haxbo]

We already have age of mythology.

What we lack is a realistic ancient greece type mod.

THATS WHAT THIS SHOULD BE/IS.

 

[theAthenian]

Fantasy.

I for one never liked mods who strived to be as accurate and realistic as possible. It ruins all the fun.
But anyways, even if you don't add mythological stuff, do add religions in some sort of way. Players should get morale boosts at temples for example and you should be able to chose your favourite deity.

 

[Phalanx300]

How exactly does something beign accurate ruins the fun? Its gameplay that could potentially ruin it. It being accurate doesn't. Actually gives a better gameplay experience if its accurate.

Look at this for example:

Spoiler

 

[laughingman90]

I would prefer it if you did add in mythic weapons and armor, they don't have to be "Super" weapons, just better than their regular counter parts. The difference in quality should reflect how hard it is to obtain these weapons and armor. Like the thing that I don't like about mods that strive to be too accurate whenever it gets hard to find ppl and places because of names that are hard to identify with names that end up being almost identical save for a single letter, also combat in some mods I've seen them slow the weapon speeds down and lower accuracy rates, all that does for me is slow down the battles you play and makes it less enjoyable all for the sake of realism. Not that realism is a bad thing just too much makes it the game less fun the same is true for the fantasy stuff too, what I'm saying is find a medium between the two and you will satisfy a broader spectrum of people that want to enjoy your mod. This turned into a lot of text and I think it kinda left what this topic was about sorry.

 

[vietanh797]

i prefer realism but myth should play a role(no super weapons or something)

I prefer having no religious super soldiers

Theban has religious super soldiers

 

[LuvSimplePlan]

i prefer realism but myth should play a role(no super weapons or something)

I prefer having no religious super soldiers

Theban has religious super soldiers

I prefer

 

[vietanh797]

I prefer

but Spartan also

 

[LuvSimplePlan]

I prefer

but Spartan also

thats my opinion........ 

 

[vietanh797]

thats my opinion........ 

guess we should stop it here or we will be flag as spam

 

[LuvSimplePlan]

thats my opinion........ 

guess we should stop it here or we will be flag as spam

yeah. 

 

[tigershark]

....I'm not quite sure I understand why including mythological elements would take away from the accuracy of the mod, although there's no proof of a god/goddess ever actually blessing someone it's still a rather common theme in alot of Greek literature and the RITUAL of religion was still rather important, hell ritualised combat was practised by the Greeks from time to time (battle of the champions anyone?)

The point I'm trying to make is, while the gods and goddesses and heroes may have had no practical physical effect, ignoring their importance in the time period is rather...well narrow minded, these are not modern people, they don't think the way we do nor do they have the same beliefs we do, while in our society it may seem plainly obvious to many a high power doesn't exist, to many in a Greek society, suggesting that the gods don't exist would have been seen as insane, people saw their gods everywhere and they worshipped their gods.

Now I'm not saying you should give the mythological element a huge part in the game, give everyone game breaking items ect. But ignoring it for the sake of "realism" would be .... well...Unrealistic. Look at it this way, I'm sure there were hundreds of "spears of Achilles" floating around but a commander who claimed to have one would get a hell of a morale boost from his men.

If you want to include it in a proper manner how about something like "taking the auspices" before a battle, your priest or you will gut an animal or see a certain bird and it will improve or damage your mens morale as they think the gods are with or against them, that is a historically accurate way to include the gods into it. It's a different time, not ours, while including these things directly would be against the spirit of the mod completely ignoring them would also go against the mods spirit.

 

[DoctorPringles]

....I'm not quite sure I understand why including mythological elements would take away from the accuracy of the mod, although there's no proof of a god/goddess ever actually blessing someone it's still a rather common theme in alot of Greek literature and the RITUAL of religion was still rather important, hell ritualised combat was practised by the Greeks from time to time (battle of the champions anyone?)

The point I'm trying to make is, while the gods and goddesses and heroes may have had no practical physical effect, ignoring their importance in the time period is rather...well narrow minded, these are not modern people, they don't think the way we do nor do they have the same beliefs we do, while in our society it may seem plainly obvious to many a high power doesn't exist, to many in a Greek society, suggesting that the gods don't exist would have been seen as insane, people saw their gods everywhere and they worshipped their gods.

Now I'm not saying you should give the mythological element a huge part in the game, give everyone game breaking items ect. But ignoring it for the sake of "realism" would be .... well...Unrealistic. Look at it this way, I'm sure there were hundreds of "spears of Achilles" floating around but a commander who claimed to have one would get a hell of a morale boost from his men.

If you want to include it in a proper manner how about something like "taking the auspices" before a battle, your priest or you will gut an animal or see a certain bird and it will improve or damage your mens morale as they think the gods are with or against them, that is a historically accurate way to include the gods into it. It's a different time, not ours, while including these things directly would be against the spirit of the mod completely ignoring them would also go against the mods spirit.

Well said, I heartily agree.

To further express my opinions, I want a sort of tangible mythology that isn't fantasy, like what tigershark is suggesting. I want it to have an effect on the game, but not in the sense that we'd be fighting cyclops and running around recruiting Hercules or Perceus.

That said, I'd also like for weapons and armor to be historically accurate, to a reasonable extent.

 

[Haxbo]

....I'm not quite sure I understand why including mythological elements would take away from the accuracy of the mod, although there's no proof of a god/goddess ever actually blessing someone it's still a rather common theme in alot of Greek literature and the RITUAL of religion was still rather important, hell ritualised combat was practised by the Greeks from time to time (battle of the champions anyone?)

The point I'm trying to make is, while the gods and goddesses and heroes may have had no practical physical effect, ignoring their importance in the time period is rather...well narrow minded, these are not modern people, they don't think the way we do nor do they have the same beliefs we do, while in our society it may seem plainly obvious to many a high power doesn't exist, to many in a Greek society, suggesting that the gods don't exist would have been seen as insane, people saw their gods everywhere and they worshipped their gods.

Now I'm not saying you should give the mythological element a huge part in the game, give everyone game breaking items ect. But ignoring it for the sake of "realism" would be .... well...Unrealistic. Look at it this way, I'm sure there were hundreds of "spears of Achilles" floating around but a commander who claimed to have one would get a hell of a morale boost from his men.

If you want to include it in a proper manner how about something like "taking the auspices" before a battle, your priest or you will gut an animal or see a certain bird and it will improve or damage your mens morale as they think the gods are with or against them, that is a historically accurate way to include the gods into it. It's a different time, not ours, while including these things directly would be against the spirit of the mod completely ignoring them would also go against the mods spirit.

I agree. I don't mind mythological improving morale, but having centaurs and cyclopes would ruin this for me. It's like crusaders carrying a giant cross into battle. A morale boost sure, but i dont want any mythological beasts.

Also i don't think the spear of Achilles should give anything more than morale boost. If you want mythological super beasts and monsters go play age of mythology. There is NO realistic ancient greece mod, this one fills the void. Actually i can't seem to think of ANY game that takes place in ancient greece without monsters and gods. Age of mythology, God of war 3 etc. No one except rome total war. But thats not set in this period.

 

[GentleYeti]

I think a submod is a perfect idea. The community seems way to divided on this issue. Although i am one for historical accuracy I think it is important to note that to be historically accurate some aspects of religion do need to be involved in this game. Greece was dominated by concepts of mythology and gods. These might not have been real, things/or people but they still played a major role in the lives of the Greek people. I think there should be "legendary items" but all they are is a legend. They might not even be real, but bring with them a renown or morale value. People might think this weapon is a relic, but it is infact not. I also think that maybe having priests that give blessings is a good idea. Even if it is false, having the confidence that ones god is watching over you with favor would give a morale boost. Think of all the things that the gods encouraged as well, greek shield art and weapons were influenced by their gods..

I hope you take these facts into consideration when making your decision.

 

[tenerife_boy]

The mod is still in a alpha version and you are already thinking in  a submod???
GTFO! and do it yourself if you want

Maybe in a far faaaaaar future you will see a submod....

 

[DoctorPringles]

The mod is still in a alpha version and you are already thinking in  a submod???
GTFO! and do it yourself if you want

Maybe in a far faaaaaar future you will see a submod....

I think if Lynores was concerned about the mod being in Alpha, he wouldn't have bothered to post this thread asking about what to do with Religion/Myth. This tells me that he's at the point where he's seriously contemplating implementing it, so why wouldn't we be allowed to suggest ways to do so?

As an aside, or rather back on topic, I like the idea of the religion bit being a submod. I wonder how much more difficult it is to make a submod as opposed to a flat-out patch?

 

[tenerife_boy]

so it´s better to do as an posible addon like freelancer

 

[tigershark]

I'm still standing by the fact that not including religion in some form is as unrealistic as including Minotaurs. I'm not thinking we need godly blessing powers or anything, but certain religious acts would have a huge impact upon your morale, especially when one considers that soldiers tend to be quite a superstitious bunch as it is. 

 

[Phalanx300]

The poll is about blessings and magical equipment...

So what do you suggest then? In gameplay terms?

 

[tigershark]

Well for a start.

The thing I mentioned earlier, the ability to "Take the auspices" before a battle. Doing this would get you a message about sacrificing an animal to check it's innards for good or bad omens or watching the flight patterns of birds for the same thing ect. A good omen would massively increase your men's morale and make it more likely you'll win the battle and a bad omen will decrease your morale. Perhaps one should also add speeches so that a truly charismatic leader can turn a bad omen around with some luck.

If people REALLY want items from heroes, don't necessarily make them unique, very rare, but not unique. They'd be no better than standard equipment and would essentially just be a weapon or item that somebody CLAIMED to be from said hero or god, so it would improve your leadership and persuasion skills, from the prestige of being able to claim this.

Delphi. I'm not entirely sure how powerful Delphi was at this point in terms of prestige but. One could include Delphi's oracles simply because there tended to be a rather strong element of truth to their prophesies. They gathered information from around the world and deliberately made them vague enough that they could be correct, so why not in game have the temple at Delphi be somewhere you can go for information on current wars, the location of possible companions, possibly the location of known lords and maybe even the region that a certain item you really want is in. It'd just be a nice touch.

While the ability to get blessings to increase your stats is a wee bit unrealistic, temples could be included to an extent, paying vast sums to build a new statue too...Let's say Zeus, should improve your reputation with the city your building it in by a reasonable chunk, improve your rep with the cities lord, increase your renown slightly and POSSIBLY increase your honour? Just to represent the fact that a good citizen was supposed to support their "polis" and use their income on great projects.

That's all I can think of for now, my heads swimming, I'll get back to you after another coffee or three