POLL: How are people liking the 1.8.0 Beta?

How are you liking the 1.8.0 Beta?

  • It is a dream come true that has massively improved my experience

  • It exceeded expectations

  • Some good & some bad

  • It was a waste of time that can't be played with the mods I like

  • It actively made the game worse

  • I like turtles

  • For some insane reason, I hate turtles


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Users who are viewing this thread

bonerstorm

Genghis Khan't
Sergeant
Dev or link i don't mind. I know this isn't a game made for me its for everyone but at least 50% of the people share rpg vision of the game. A battle simulator isn't enough to carry the campaign.
Well I did a walk down memory lane and @five bucks and @Apocal and @Kentucky 『 HEIGUI 』 James were all there... but not the dev comment I was looking for.

Maybe one of them remember when and where a dev was asked something like "When will feasts be implemented in the game?" and responded "You guys want feasts? Really? Why? Nobody's even considered adding feasts."
You could limit it to clan leaders only. sorted.
Also peacetime. Also maybe lords don't always need to go out with massive armies and they can leave all but an elite honor guard at their castles.

This stuff isn't hard to do. They just don't want to do it. Without mods like Diplomacy that add a messenger mechanic, the game's just not playable because trying to talk to a specific lord is a torturously boring and extended exercise.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Well I did a walk down memory lane and @five bucks and @Apocal and @Kentucky 『 HEIGUI 』 James were all there... but not the dev comment I was looking for.

Maybe one of them remember when and where a dev was asked something like "When will feasts be implemented in the game?" and responded "You guys want feasts? Really? Why? Nobody's even considered adding feasts."
I have a vague memory of something like that but can't find it either. Possibly because the dev's post didn't contain the keyword "feast".

There's this comment from Callum saying he thinks feasts would break the game (lol?) https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/feasts-by-bloc.451066/page-2#post-9795419 this one from Duh saying it's not part of their plans https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/beta-patch-notes-e1-7-0.448523/page-13#post-9771115 this one from Duh weighing up potential pros/cons and concluding by saying it wasn't in their plans https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...or-you-taleworlds.440590/page-23#post-9673649 and this one from Mexxico saying it would be easy for him to add feasts https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...owballing-problem.434547/page-68#post-9687348
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
That´s why Mexxico is gone I guess :iamamoron:

But whatever, feasts won´t be added by TW. No matter how often we ask for them.
 

bonerstorm

Genghis Khan't
Sergeant
There's this comment from Callum saying he thinks feasts would break the game (lol?)
One thing I think it's fair - if still frustrating - to keep in mind is that lord AI is painfully painfully badly stupid. TW devs are so bad at this that it's understandable that they'd get tummyaches thinking about telling them to code like a third or fourth thing.

When playing a soldier in the sultan's army using Bloc's freelancer mod, I got a pretty good idea of what lords do - which is basically **** nothing.

The sultan:
  1. Patrols ineffectually around his fief - too slow to catch anything except for bands of like 200+ looters
  2. Calls a big army to patrol even more ineffectually - because he's slower - around his fief
  3. He sometimes chills at his fief for like 2 or 3 days, sometimes recruiting a couple dudes
  4. When he's at war, he goes REALLY SLOWLY to defend sieged fiefs
  5. Or he goes REALLY REALLY SLOWLY to besiege fiefs
  6. Then he RUNS OUT OF FOOD and NEEDS TO GO HOME
10/10 AI GENIUS GOTY

In case it isn't obvious: there is no reason for lords to be patrolling all the time with massive parties, because they're too slow to catch anything. If they were fast enough to catch things, then endgame bandit spam wouldn't be as much as a problem.

Feasts should totally be a thing, but it conflicts with the "vision" of always being at war to no effect for no reason forever.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
One thing I think it's fair - if still frustrating - to keep in mind is that lord AI is painfully painfully badly stupid. TW devs are so bad at this that it's understandable that they'd get tummyaches thinking about telling them to code like a third or fourth thing.

When playing a soldier in the sultan's army using Bloc's freelancer mod, I got a pretty good idea of what lords do - which is basically **** nothing.

The sultan:
  1. Patrols ineffectually around his fief - too slow to catch anything except for bands of like 200+ looters
  2. Calls a big army to patrol even more ineffectually - because he's slower - around his fief
  3. He sometimes chills at his fief for like 2 or 3 days, sometimes recruiting a couple dudes
  4. When he's at war, he goes REALLY SLOWLY to defend sieged fiefs
  5. Or he goes REALLY REALLY SLOWLY to besiege fiefs
  6. Then he RUNS OUT OF FOOD and NEEDS TO GO HOME
10/10 AI GENIUS GOTY

In case it isn't obvious: there is no reason for lords to be patrolling all the time with massive parties, because they're too slow to catch anything. If they were fast enough to catch things, then endgame bandit spam wouldn't be as much as a problem.

Feasts should totally be a thing, but it conflicts with the "vision" of always being at war to no effect for no reason forever.
But you could just have feasts at peacetime and it wouldn't add to lords' workloads meaningfully because, as you said, they usually don't catch bandit parties anyway.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Maybe one of them remember when and where a dev was asked something like "When will feasts be implemented in the game?" and responded "You guys want feasts? Really? Why? Nobody's even considered adding feasts."
They've never said that, as far as I know. The two devs who worked on campaign stuff and interacted most often mentioned they were brought up and discussed but there were no plans:
I am on the fence with this feature. Feasts only really make sense if there is a good bit of attendance - which means lords and ladies need to prioritize them over other activities and those tend to be mostly military or self-preservatory in nature. Naturally, they could just be limited to periods of peace... but those can be few and far. Maybe I shouldn't be so concerned about logical decision making and just welcome the return of Harlaus the Butterlord. Or it's worthwhile even if it's rare. I don't think that they are impossible, in fact, I am sure that they will continue to be discussed but they are not part of the current priorities.
About feasts, I want them too and if added I can easily modify npc AI calculations and lords would go to settlements which have feast. I said this internal before, it is a risk free feature. However I did not hear any plan about them yet.
 

azakhi

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&S
They've never said that, as far as I know. The two devs who worked on campaign stuff and interacted most often mentioned they were brought up and discussed but there were no plans:
I get Duh's response there. I was testing some stuff and recording war declarations. Seems like there are more than 10 wars declared in a single game year. The pace is very crazy to have feasts at the moment. First that needs to change.
 

Aurex

Veteran
WB
Without the vassal defection bug, I'd say it would be a decent patch if these were bi-weekly patches.
As it stands and given the time passed since the last patch, I'd give it a 2/10.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I get Duh's response there. I was testing some stuff and recording war declarations. Seems like there are more than 10 wars declared in a single game year. The pace is very crazy to have feasts at the moment. First that needs to change.
If feasts were only held during peacetime then they would not have any negative impact on lords' wartime behaviour.

However I do definitely agree that the pace of the game needs to become less crazy, and there needs to be longer periods of peace. In order to make the game more playable, and also to make peacetime last long enough so feasts can last.
 

Ling*

Knight at Arms
I get Duh's response there. I was testing some stuff and recording war declarations. Seems like there are more than 10 wars declared in a single game year. The pace is very crazy to have feasts at the moment. First that needs to change.
My suggestion would be to add enforced Peace Treaties where if a faction makes peace and signs the treaty they are prevented from declaring war or attacking the other faction for X number of days/years. This could bring up an interesting mechanic to work alongside defection/rebellion because some lords may feel resentment towards making peace, or their desire for personal revenge against the enemy faction with whom they have made peace outweighs their loyalty to the faction causing them to declare war independently and be expelled from their faction for breaking the treaty.

At any rate this peace treaty system would greatly reduce the frequency of wars.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I get Duh's response there. I was testing some stuff and recording war declarations. Seems like there are more than 10 wars declared in a single game year. The pace is very crazy to have feasts at the moment. First that needs to change.
I don't think most players will notice or care if feasts **** up factions every so often.
My suggestion would be to add enforced Peace Treaties where if a faction makes peace and signs the treaty they are prevented from declaring war or attacking the other faction for X number of days/years.
It is usually other factions declaring war on them.
 

HugoTheFrenchMan

Master Knight
My suggestion would be to add enforced Peace Treaties where if a faction makes peace and signs the treaty they are prevented from declaring war or attacking the other faction for X number of days/years.
Might reduce it by a very small amount.

War with the Southern Empire done, Sturgia declares war on you, you peace out after winning for a bit your truce with the Empire is up and right back to fighting them it is.

Unless the truces were like 2 years long it wouldn't do much since every faction borders at minimum 2 to 3 other factions.
 

Ling*

Knight at Arms
Might reduce it by a very small amount.

War with the Southern Empire done, Sturgia declares war on you, you peace out after winning for a bit your truce with the Empire is up and right back to fighting them it is.

Unless the truces were like 2 years long it wouldn't do much since every faction borders at minimum 2 to 3 other factions.

You could make X any number and balance it to taste. X could be 5 years for example, the devs would just have to play around with the number until they hit the sweet spot of peace vs war.

It is usually other factions declaring war on them.
@Apocal True, but atleast this would prevent the same faction from making peace and then immediately going to war with your faction again. Vlandia can't just spam wars against Sturgia in this case for example, and vise versa. And if the peace treaty timer is long enough, you can have this effect overlap with other factions you have recently gone to war with. For example: Sturgia declares war on Vlandia - They fight - They sign a peace Treaty for 5 years - Southern Empire declares war on Vlandia - They fight for 2 years - They sign a peace treaty for 5 years - Neither Sturgia nor Southern Empire can declare war against Vlandia for another remaining 3-5 years, and Vlandia can't declare war against them.
 
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five bucks

Knight at Arms
My suggestion would be to add enforced Peace Treaties where if a faction makes peace and signs the treaty they are prevented from declaring war or attacking the other faction for X number of days/years. This could bring up an interesting mechanic to work alongside defection/rebellion because some lords may feel resentment towards making peace, or their desire for personal revenge against the enemy faction with whom they have made peace outweighs their loyalty to the faction causing them to declare war independently and be expelled from their faction for breaking the treaty.

At any rate this peace treaty system would greatly reduce the frequency of wars.
I don't think most players will notice or care if feasts **** up factions every so often.

It is usually other factions declaring war on them.
Yep, other factions declaring war is the root cause although your own faction being too willing to declare war while already at war is also part of the issue.

But it's true that peace treaties alone won't solve the problem.

My solution is: reduce the base likelihood of factions declaring war at all, for any reason (ganging up on strong faction, grabbing land from weak faction, extracting tribute, etc). This should reduce wars declared from both external and internal sources, and will make periods of peace more common in the game.

We then risk players getting bored if wars don't happen often enough and they can't pass a war vote due to too many lords opposing war (though this is a separate problem), and not enough work for mercenaries who cannot vote for war. So in the interest of pacing, we introduce a peacetime "soft cap" which influences how likely your faction is to vote for a new war, and slowly increases over time. If you have been at peace for a year, a war declaration becomes very very likely if there is even a slight reason for your faction to want war.

This does not totally replace the usual war/peace system though, only influences it. Your faction will still go to war for the same reasons, but the usual reasons will be less likely to start a war on their own if enough time has not passed yet.

This "peace soft cap" plus lower default tendency for war can be rationalised as clan leaders acting like humans rather than battle robots; experiencing fatigue from too much war and wanting to manage their fiefs, so not voting for war even if it theoretically would get them a good outcome. But if they have had time to manage their fiefs, they too get bored during peace and warmongers begin to push for any excuse for war.

TL;DR: factions declare war less often, but declare war more often if they have not been at war for a while.
 
Thanks! I hate it! I absolutely hate this version of the game. Yeah, it has a few nice things and you just had to break modding to do it. Great. This is how crappy your game is: No one likes it without mods.
 
Thanks! I hate it! I absolutely hate this version of the game. Yeah, it has a few nice things and you just had to break modding to do it. Great. This is how crappy your game is: No one likes it without mods.
I a EA game man it's going to have updates. Just don't play until 2 weeks after release. it should be ok then.
 
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