Poll: Horse Hopping Must GO!!!

Horsemen can jump over pikes, the weapon with greatest reach, to avoid them but still manage to land

  • Agree

    选票: 95 70.9%
  • Disagree

    选票: 25 18.7%
  • Don't Care.

    选票: 14 10.4%

  • 全部投票
    134

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Ordonator

Regular
It's ridiculous already. I'm a pretty pisspoor player overall, but there's just one thing I can do well and it's pike a horseman off his mount. Well, now that this behavior is the newest rage in horse-whoring gayness, I can't even do that. Unless I hide around a corner or some nonsense.
 
Well, having just experienced the same ridiculousness that you did, I agree.  Horses should still be able to jump, but not so high, methinks.  Horse jumping should not be a valid way to avoid polearm-bearers when the horseman is charging straight at them.
 
While realistically, horses can jump really high, but it does, unfortunately, unbalance the game because they can jump STRAIGHT over a pike. This more or less defeats the purpose; so it may be worth to look at reducing the height they jump at.
 
I'd be half tempted to suggest they just get rid of jumping, except it does have valid usages like getting over obstacles or just goofing around. Horses can and do jump over fences, too, even with a rider. It's a sport.

Jumping over a guy with a big spear, though? No. Stabbing him in the face with your stubby lance while you're jumping over his spear? Double no.

A maneuver like that should take incredibly precise timing and catching the spearman off guard. If the horseman's timing was off at all, he'd still end up with a pike through his horse's leg or jammed through its belly, and he wouldn't be riding off. It sounds like in the OP, the spearman's having to line up a precisely aimed shot in a very narrowly defined area, and if the mounted guy jumps it messes up his timing and causes an impossible miss.

I think the fix would be making it so when you're trying to skewer a charging rider, timing is not a factor for you, but instead, angle. Just block, and the pointy end should be pointed wherever you're looking. If it's pointed out at a flat trajectory it'll have greater reach and hit sooner because the entire length will be extended horizontally-- raise it up a bit, and it'll hit later because it's more diagonal, but will strike an enemy that's jumping on top of you.

All in all it seems like we're lacking a 'point sharp bit toward enemy' function. There's really no way to passively receive an enemy charge, you're either swinging a weapon, actively thrusting with a point, or completely harmless. If a blocking player would just point their blade or point out toward the enemy, we'd see more conservative fighting instead of the up-close knife fights that everything seems to boil down to.
 
I'm with you on that one. A spearman shouldn't have to time it right to stop an cavalry charge. The speed of the horse moving into the weapon at a stand still should be quite enough.
 
I'm pretty sure this is a combination of factors.

One, right now polearm stabbing seems really off, timing seems like it requires some psychic ability and feels really unresponsive and slow, both from horseback and on foot.

Two, Horses hitboxes are almost assuredly wrong, I have heard many people complaining about this, sinkign your weapon visibly into the horses model over and over yields nothing, today I was pressed up literally against a horse swinging away with a sword, visibly watching the blade pass through it like a ghost.

I think its a combination of these two factors thats making this scenario so difficult.

P.S. I have cut a jumping horse out of the air during the couple days Ive been playing warband but Im not sure Ive stabbed one out of the air. I did stab a rider out of the air while he was falling after a dismount though :cool:
 
I just got a brilliant idea, lets do the following to multiplayer:

Make EVERY server 1v1!!! this way nobody gets an unfair advantage due to team imbalance.

Then, plant the two players 2 feet apart from each other with a long sword an tournament tunic each.

Now glue them in place, and make them unable to move, this way they can't sploit unfair stuff!

Furthermore, blocking is gay, so disable it, now let them hack at each other in a fair and balanced manner and everyone has an equal chance.
 
Vilhjalmr 说:
I chopped a horse's **** off with a scimitar as it jumped over me.

Why are you imagining that there are dicks on the horses?  :lol:

El-Diablito 说:
I just got a brilliant idea, lets do the following to multiplayer:

Make EVERY server 1v1!!! this way nobody gets an unfair advantage due to team imbalance.

Then, plant the two players 2 feet apart from each other with a long sword an tournament tunic each.

Now glue them in place, and make them unable to move, this way they can't sploit unfair stuff!

Furthermore, blocking is gay, so disable it, now let them hack at each other in a fair and balanced manner and everyone has an equal chance.

:???:

Well, that was constructive.  Obviously we shouldn't strive for some kind of balance in this game, nor should we comment on things that should be improved.  We should just release the game now, in fact. 

The advantages of not being mounted are few enough particularly on wide-open maps, and I agree with everything SpiderMandala has said here.
When a horseman leaps over a fence at your waiting men, he should be able to jump high enough to clear the fence and maybe even knock people out of the way, but he shouldn't be able to vault over everyone, avoiding pikes and the like, and hit the crossbowman 10 yards away.  This may be an issue of hitboxes, jumping height, or polearm stabbing, but it needs to be fixed.
 
I'd just like to point out that if we are to have any semblance of historic accuracy, all swadian mounts MUST have penises!

I cannot comment on khergit, nord or vaegir.
 
El-Diablito 说:
I'd just like to point out that if we are to have any semblance of historic accuracy, all swadian mounts MUST have penises!

I cannot comment on khergit, nord or vaegir.
And what of Rhodock horses?
 
That sounds kind of boring El-Diablito. Why don't we just have knights not jump over people's heads while stabbing them in the face with their lance at the same time like superhuman freaks?

Lances on horseback were very effective in warfare, s'true, but so were pikemen to counter them.

I don't think this game should rely strictly on rock paper scissors, I think sometimes horseman should beat spearman, bowman beats shield guy, and two-handed axe beats bow, but it shouldn't be because of weird gamey tactics.

Being able to land a lance-point in somebody's face while you're jumping over the reach of their polearm seems quite implausible, but I could see someone getting that down to a science since jumping doesn't seem to reduce your coordination for melee attacks in Mount & Blade. They can game the system because it doesn't simulate everything and (supposedly) dominate with a cheap tactic.

I think jumping and timing a hit to coincide with it should increase the damage of said hit, but it should be a two-way street. If you jump on somebody's spear you should be rightly skewered. I think, the current system already allows for this contingency (although M&B:Warbands doesn't give a message for momentum damage so I can't tell). It sounds like spear jab timing is just weird and wonky though.

Preparing a spear to receive a charge is a classic medieval combat strategy. I haven't tried it in Warbands yet, but I seem to recall in native M&B it's rather impossible. Spearmen are a joke in basic Mount & Blade. Native Expanded rather fixed this (harshly, I should point out) by having spearmen couch their lances while standing still. Any cavalry within 5 feet of a readied spearmen would get skewered, which got pretty silly when one spear shish-ka-babbed five horses in a row but, heck, it's feasible.

Respect the pointy bits! Reckless tactics should get us killed, we ought to have to think a little when we're fighting instead of just spinning and jumping and chest-bumping like loons. At any rate, there ought to be a point to trying to use a spear against horsemen.. I've been knocked off a horse far more often by a swung axe or sword than any spear by a wide margin. Hell just give us the option to swing the spear, we'd be more effective the way it is now.

I feel I'm getting a little offbase when I'm just arguing with myself like this, so I'll wrap up this terribly over-long post.
 
Whenever I watch a horse jump in an equestrian setting, the speed at which they move through the air when they jump is much slower than that of a gallop.
 
El-Diablito 说:
I just got a brilliant idea, lets do the following to multiplayer:

Make EVERY server 1v1!!! this way nobody gets an unfair advantage due to team imbalance.

Then, plant the two players 2 feet apart from each other with a long sword an tournament tunic each.

Now glue them in place, and make them unable to move, this way they can't sploit unfair stuff!

Furthermore, blocking is gay, so disable it, now let them hack at each other in a fair and balanced manner and everyone has an equal chance.

You're totally missing the point. I don't care if a horseman can ride my ass down while I'm playing as a swordsman or archer or whatever.  There has to be one, solid direct counter to such a widely used style of play. I thought it was pikeman. Apparently its not.

There shouldn't be one Troop-archetype to rule them all. It's stupid and it makes people want to quit the game. And I'm not alone on this one.
 
Ordonator 说:
There shouldn't be one Troop-archetype to rule them all. It's stupid and it makes people want to quit the game. And I'm not alone on this one.

I think there is a certain balance with sword + shield vs bow vs horseback, but it seems to me at present that spears are mostly useless.

I should point out though, I haven't put them to very much use yet in Warbands. I could be wrong, I just have no reason to doubt your assessment. It jives with how regular M&B works, and it certainly doesn't seem to be any easier.

I'm going to get back into playing the game and not worry about it too much. If I get a chance to try taking out horsemen with a spear I'll give it a shot and see what the odds are for myself.
 
Usually I'm an archer or a horseman so it usually doesn't apply to me but I have had some seriously messed up misses while using lances in the same situation. I think they should increase horse landing damage from a full speed run because horses arent going to be able to land a jump like that with a fully armored individual on their back and just run off unscathed, maybe include the armor equation in falling damage for horses if not people.
 
Ravenheild 说:
Usually I'm an archer or a horseman so it usually doesn't apply to me but I have had some seriously messed up misses while using lances in the same situation. I think they should increase horse landing damage from a full speed run because horses arent going to be able to land a jump like that with a fully armored individual on their back and just run off unscathed, maybe include the armor equation in falling damage for horses if not people.

Yeah I'll take more damage from getting trampled from behind; as long as there's no way I can get mowed down while facing a horseman with a spear.
 
If falling off a horse would hurt, then perhaps people would reconsider placing themselves higher off the ground.
 
I'm not playing beta so I'm not sure, but my guess is that you can easily counter that with an overhead attack of an axe, or a stab of a shorter (but still long enough) weapon like a Great Sword.
 
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