POLL: Elected Fan Representatives in the TW Forums?

Would you like to be able to vote for fan representatives to articulate our interests to TW?

  • YES: We should have elections for fan reps across the board

    Votes: 9 10.3%
  • YES: We should have separate elections for different modules or areas of interest

    Votes: 7 8.0%
  • NO: We should have TW-sponsored polls about dev priorities, but no fan reps

    Votes: 26 29.9%
  • NO: Fan polls are a dumb idea entirely and they shouldn't be an influence on development at all

    Votes: 26 29.9%
  • DON'T CARE: I've already given up on TW entirely

    Votes: 11 12.6%
  • TURTLES: I like turtles

    Votes: 6 6.9%
  • TURTLES: For some sick, depraved reason I have no love for turtles in my icy, desiccated heart

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • OTHER: Specify in reply

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Total voters
    87

Currently viewing this thread:

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
I think this is not solution to problem. Everybody is writing us some suggestions to pass meetings. This will not work too. If current system will continue - it seems we cannot change - there should be less and very good filtered suggestions passed to top and CMs are already doing this good by reading forum.

If we try to discuss too much suggestions in these meetings this creates too long meetings where participants are exhausted. To discuss each suggestion longer we should go with less suggestions. So please lets end these discussions and do not make pressure to other devs / CMs here about passing your suggestions to top. This is already done. I only wanted contribution from top to forum but company grew too much and it seems this will not happen. This is not happening in other big companies too. After some point it seems this is impossible maybe I could not see how hard it is from place I stand.

So lets end discussing these and return normal. It will only make devs CMs here sad. They are trying to do their best. I do not want to open new discussions, conspiracy theories. Lets continue discussing game as we do always. Also I heard development will continue more months. So you will have time for new features to be added in future. Lets not rush.
 
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svelok

Sergeant
even if you think the company should follow the community's vision, people who vote on forum polls are a very, very small and not at all representative cross section of the community
 

Schmutz

Sergeant
WBM&B
Have you used the forum in the past year? It's a stupid idea. Also, I declare myself fan king, bow peasents! I order all of you, my loyal, lowly subjects to keep busting TW's balls. And you TW, get your **** together for ****s sake.
 

bishey

Recruit
I think this is overkill. The issue is not that there isn't enough suggestions or that the devs can't see those suggestions. The issue is how hard it is to convince TW about the necessity of a feature and what the scope of it's implementation should be.

I don't know how final decisions are made in TW but it's clearly flawed. Most suggestions are either put on the end of a ever growing list or negotiated down to it's most simple form where it barely solves the original problem.
 

Clsy

Squire
WBWF&S
The issue is how hard it is to convince TW about the necessity of a feature

i would say this statement is about 50% correct, is not about feedbacks but it is almost impossible to convince them being wrong
"feature" could be a time thing, maybe one day you will get it
but the road they choose to walk, the determination of their approach and vision seems impregnable



the multiplayer is a example
they could have use the existing smithing system they announced who knows how many years ago to let you create ridiculous customizable weapons
for example a scythe like this↓, and you could do it on the base game single player too, it is a EXISTING FEATURE
wh_main_vmp_cav_hexwraiths.png

but no we go for the E-SPORT class system and official exclusive dedicated server that no one liked
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
there should be less and very good filtered suggestions passed to top and CMs are already doing this good by reading forum
Maybe the communication should be going in the other direction, then?

After these meetings, CM's could tell us what the reactions were to popular suggestions - so we don't have to wonder why Siege AI or armor or anything else we care about isn't being fixed or isn't being prioritized?

OK - now that I actually wrote those words out - I recognize that it would probably just give people more reasons to be angry, which is why nobody would do it...

But I just don't have faith in TW anymore. It's been a year and I don't see any evidence that the game will get better. I'm just grasping at straws trying to figure out some sign - some rational basis - to start believing again. And I'm totally coming up empty.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Also, I declare myself fan king, bow peasents! I order all of you, my loyal, lowly subjects to keep busting TW's balls. And you TW, get your **** together for ****s sake.
You don't have enough right to rule around these lands so i won't recognize your claim and will fight you like the upstart barbarian warlord you are!

SMMRFQe.png
 
Well-intentioned, but it would cause ceaseless amounts of drama and if it did happen, the big streamers would be chosen which would cause triple forum drama.

I will settle for @Dejan and others creating Polls, maybe after collecting all feedback there are Polls with the top-requested / top-seen reccomendations and people can vote to help prioritize. The important things I gleaned from Mexx's response (as well as other posts and tidbits from other devs), is that Dejan and others are under fire and get barely anytime to collect all of the feedback let alone present on their findings for a long time.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Maybe the communication should be going in the other direction, then?

After these meetings, CM's could tell us what the reactions were to popular suggestions - so we don't have to wonder why Siege AI or armor or anything else we care about isn't being fixed or isn't being prioritized?

OK - now that I actually wrote those words out - I recognize that it would probably just give people more reasons to be angry, which is why nobody would do it...

But I just don't have faith in TW anymore. It's been a year and I don't see any evidence that the game will get better. I'm just grasping at straws trying to figure out some sign - some rational basis - to start believing again. And I'm totally coming up empty.
Maybe slightly off topic but... Is it me you are talking about in your signature? "only he and I remain"? :oops:

Edit: ah, no, I see that you gave me for lost. I am still here! I am sad, for a moment I thought we had something special going on :sad: Now I have no other choice than to challenge @Demoulius to a duel for your heart.
 
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It's not that the community is failing to be heard, its the fact that the person making the final decisions isn't spending enough time considering these suggestions and their vision of the game is simply different then what a lot of us want
This is really important to understand, especially when we do communicate with the Devs. It's important though to keep articulating what the problems we have with the game are and what we think would fix them. We can't make the Boss concede and add "targeting a group at a specific group" for instance, but we can and should remind anyone at TW that will listen that this is a popular request and would solves many combat issues.
vanished from the forums since the closed beta
Maybe he saw how bad cavalry AI is and needs some time alone.
 

Schmutz

Sergeant
WBM&B
You don't have enough right to rule around these lands so i won't recognize your claim and will fight you like the upstart barbarian warlord you are!

SMMRFQe.png
Pah, I have the god given right, how dare you stir up my subjects with this doomed to fail complot. Duel me tomorrow 9 pm utc+2 if you have the marbles.
 

Aurex

Regular
WB
@mexxico made a very impassioned response to the "Bannerlord was a grift" thread in which he argued that TaleWorlds is NOT grifting us in BL's development, but conceded that there are structural issues with TW's communication strategy.

I suggested that the current ad-hoc approach to considering suggestions doesn't seem to be working and that @Dejan could take advantage of polls to be able to deliver a better sense of what the community wants prioritized.

Then I had a completely insane idea: what if TW held regular elections through timed polls in the forums for a limited number of us to be recognized as authoritative voices of the community? Maybe quarterly?

That way we all - TW AND fans - could have confidence that productive conversations are happening without digging through a maze of forum posts, which are often plagued by fog-of-war rumor-milling and arbitrary opinions without a basis in fact.

Those who want realism-oriented changes in the mass combat mechanics could vote for @Terco_Viejo or @Philozoraptor ... whitepilled fans who want active players with detailed feedback to be in the mix could vote for @Apocal or @AnandaShanti ... redpills who want sweeping changes in the design philosophy could vote for @Aurex or @vonbalt or @Kentucky 『 HEIGUI 』 James or @Bloc ... blackpills who just want to watch the world burn could vote for @danEN or @MadVader ...

The best part is that we'd finally end the pointless discussions about what "the majority of the fans want" - since everybody who's invested in Bannerlord's future will have to put up or shut up, with no further ambiguity.

EDIT: Note that I'm totally ignorant of the MP-side of the forums and have only been back regularly for the past couple months, so please don't get insulted if I missed out on obvious heavyweights. I was just listing people I've seen who are still active recently in threads I've paid attention to.

Also one thing I want to be considered is - if fan reps are a good idea - whether it makes sense to have different fan reps for the MP & SP communities as well as reps for discrete communities like RPG or military history or esport fans.
While I find your post excellent, would agree on principle and it's definitely a good idea which I would usually support wholeheartedly, I'm not sure it would... end well (even assuming Taleworlds was on board with this idea, of course.) Let me explain, as it as to do with the current forum situation.

Some people who are popular and would probably be selected for this due to an abundance of well-written posts, general pleasantness or eccentric but charming personalities and fun, witty posters great at memes and retorts might not necessarily be the best people to represent the community. And representing a community through an elected council while most people on the forums are already fighting all the time on the most basic level ("I love the game, love you to death TW" *VS* "This game is done for, I'm outta here" *and* "I have constructive criticism for you") doesn't seem like it would lead to a healthy discussion. Those elected might disagree amongst each other, at times even vehemently: there would obviously be some "redpillers" alongside a lot of "I support TW I'll buy elephants" fighting each other and poking fun at each other's parentage.

Taleworlds would find itself with the same issue of discording opinions, even if they had to listen to a smaller number of people - having different "reps" from different communities would also make sense, but using what kind of ratio? Would esports fan have more or less saying power (figure of speech) than the roleplay community, and who would decide that if needs be? It seems all very complicated to set up to me.

That said, I'm not one hundred percent sure it would put an end to the pointless discussion about what the majority wants, for the simple reason that the majority of the users right now are probably (not writing this in an offensive way, mind you) casual gamers who bought it, will probably play and enjoy it for 20 to 50 hours only to then move on. They mostly do not interact on the forums, it's just us old farts trying (each one of us in their own way) to steer the ship in what we feel is the right direction. The casual gamer probably wants an accessible game, fast-paced and chaotic with short battles and not much emphasis on logistics or roleplay. People like you and me (from what I've gathered, apologies if I'm incorrect) might prefer a more tactical game focused on character progression, with much more emphasis on roleplay and general feeling of immersion, and I'm pretty sure we will never really agree with casual gamers.

Many times while browsing through the forum I stumbled upon such good suggestions and so many good ideas about developments that I just wish Taleworlds would genuinely stop for a while and listen and appreciate the amount of thoughts people give to this game and how good, no... how great it could and should be. To conclude, if Taleworlds was absolutely onboard with it, posting here and explicitly saying: "Great idea, we will be having one or two dev and a community manager interact with you twice a week" I would absolutely try and participate to the discussion. If they kept silent... well. I think it would just be a waste of our time and goodwill.

I would also probably vote for you as you seem level-headed and consistently take the time to write some great stuff.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
Maybe slightly off topic but... Is it me you are talking about in your signature? "only he and I remain"? :oops:

Edit: ah, no, I see that you gave me for lost. I am still here! I am sad, for a moment I thought we had something special going on :sad: Now I have no other choice than to challenge @Demoulius to a duel for your heart.
My mistake! I knew that I'd screwed up somewhere in my list and I couldn't figure out why your profile doesn't show "Last Activity" - probably because you were actively active as I made the post?

I guess I got caught up in the poetry of 13 lost warriors, but you probably shouldn't have been on the list. Unlike with @Demoulius - I can't find anything you posted that was embarrassingly wrong. Also the one post where you got confrontational wasn't with me at all; it was some other guy who suggested that EA was cynically released to take advantage of the lockdown, which was clearly ridiculous.

By the way, in that thread some other guy made the assertion that communists invented the word "racism" and I didn't back that up because it's a muddied history for which there's scant scholarship. It's half-true but not a hill I felt like dying on for the sake of explaining.

The short story is that Trotsky wasn't the first to use the term "racism" but he was the first to popularize it with a modern meaning and the political connotations it holds. Prior to that, "racism" or more commonly "racialism" referred to the pseudoscientific theory that races of humanity exist with distinct biological differences as well as the concomitant idea that some are superior to others and that race-mixing is dangerous.

Longer story: Trotsky didn't "invent racism" as a pseudoscientific theory, but he was the first to give widespread currency to the idea that "racialism" had become a political ideology in and of itself, which he termed "racism". In retrospect, this was obviously true.

To be fair to repeaters of the "communists invented racism" meme, the Marxist community latched on to the term afterwards and used it as one of their standard array of insults (the most popular being "fascist") to levy against liberals + conservatives in Western democracies - and it was effective because it was often accurate. It was also glaringly-hypocritical given the treatment of non-Slavs in general and Jews in specific in the Soviet Union... but so was a lot of Soviet propaganda.

There's an old joke poking fun at Soviet "whataboutism" where an American diplomat is being led through Moscow by his Soviet counterpart, who repeatedly extolls the virtues of the Soviet system and how the trains in Moscow always run on time, unlike the decadent, imperialist New York subway. They arrive at the station and the train is ten minutes late but - before the American even has a chance to cock his eyebrow - the Soviet diplomat says, "Well at least we didn't kill all the Native Americans!"

Here's an apologia for Trotsky by a modern Leninist which covers the basics of the situation and is mostly not incoherent garbage.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Well, that really is a conversation for the off topic section. I probably shouldn't even have commented on your signature but I couldn't help it :lol: but let's not derail this thread too much. I will gladly accept my Grey Knight title and leave it at that.
 
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