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[Poll-Debate-Suggestion] Revision 1h slash right strike on horseback

Which animation best reflects the 1H slash right strike?


  • Total voters
    54

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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Applicable to both MP and SP

Since we were able to test the game first hand, I always noticed a issue with one particular animation on horseback; the right one-handed slash.

As you may know, M&B's directional attacks have positional triggers, i.e. on horseback with a one-handed attack held you will notice a snap-click as you rotate, allowing for vertical (slash to the head of a footman) or horizontal (horizontal slash against rider - same height) strikes.

In Warband, despite the clunky animation, the hit window after releasing the hit was always reached after a trajectory that maintained a constant verticality; I call it "polo strike movement". In Bannerlord, on the other hand, although the swing arcs on horseback can be modified (+info here) by allowing the angle of tilt/rotation to be greater/lesser, there is too much inconsistency when it comes to performing optimal and accurate hits, both for the player and for the default AI.

The problem comes from the animation itself.

Wl9nD.jpg
giphy.gif

It is true that this is not the first time I talk about animations, however given that the kick animation has recently been corrected (which can be further improved, honestly); perhaps Taleworlds would like to "correct" this set of animations (only 1h slash right variations) to bring them closer to Warband-like performance on both a practical and aesthetic level.

A poll is included to measure general interest.
 
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Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Yes I have noticed this when first playing bannerlord, why I was always missing my target on horseback? Thought I was loosing my skills of years of playing warband!
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Yes I have noticed this when first playing bannerlord, why I was always missing my target on horseback? Thought I was loosing my skills of years of playing warband!
Exactly ๐Ÿ˜Œ .

You have to position the camera so vertically that you lose part of your peripheral vision with it (This didn't happen in Warband). That's terrible for us, the players... not to mention how complicated these swings are for the AI.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Exactly ๐Ÿ˜Œ .

You have to position the camera so vertically that you lose part of your peripheral vision with it (This didn't happen in Warband). That's terrible for us, the players... not to mention how complicated these swings are for the AI.
Wonder why they are changing these animations from warband? Are they trying to make the game realistic? Cause it doesn't seem like it ๐Ÿ˜•
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Wonder why they are changing these animations from warband? Are they trying to make the game realistic? Cause it doesn't seem like it ๐Ÿ˜•
Well... to be able to rotate the torso in this way is realistic?... oh mama, not to me! :roll: ๐Ÿ˜Œ. But regarding 1h swings...some people seem to have forgotten where we come from... a reminder in the form of a playtest.


The camera angle adjustment needed to get an optimal slash impact at heel height in Bannerlord is infinitely higher than Warband's default (which can be corrected in a much more organic way).
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Well... to be able to rotate the torso in this way is realistic?... oh mama, not to me! :roll: ๐Ÿ˜Œ. But regarding 1h swings...some people seem to have forgotten where we come from... a reminder in the form of a playtest.


The camera angle adjustment needed to get an optimal slash impact at heel height in Bannerlord is infinitely higher than Warband's default (which can be corrected in a much more organic way).
Nope not realistic at all! You're suggestion is more realistic! In warband, I could tell where I was going to swing, in bannerlord, it kinda felt awkward and not right. Yes I do agree it's the camera angle, after watching your vids.
 

Poddicus

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I think the Bannerlord animation for this specifically looks better but by ****ing God is it so much easier to hit **** while on horseback in Warband
 

Clsy

Squire
WBWF&S
that stroking animation is still one of the biggest mystery in bannerlord, if the guy need a wider strike then just do it in the first place. what a pain to see
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
You know what's funny (sarcasm - insert meme pain mask)? ๐Ÿ˜Œ ๐ŸŽป

That this has been suggested for quite some time. Both @XDaron here and @Silen here among others provided feedback during the closed/open beta (pre-release) period.

Here is a video by XDaron pointing out the same inconsistencies back then:

Feb 8, 2020

As we suggest this 1h swing with wind up from behind should be revised comprehensively (redo animation imho). BUT I've said it before, swings with 2h weapons like swords and polearms I would take back the warband penalties by converting a 2h wieldable weapon on foot to 1h on horseback (slower swing performance on small and thrust attack only with big ones - like in Warband). The only plausible thing in my eyes that can be wielded at 2h is the glaive (after reducing the attack angle and weapon size) relegating it as an swing "exotic weapon".
 
I prefer Bannerlord's animation obviously but the difference in mouse positioning for attacking targets on foot feels so odd compared to Warband. You can get used to it after a while but Warband's just feels better.
 

Hans 77

Knight
WBWF&SVC
Warband combat just played out so much smoother and more responsive than Bannerlord. Why we went away from a better system, I have no clue.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Perhaps due to the time frame of the game, bannerlord is a game way before warband, so their fighting was different, and they didn't know that there was a better way of swinging.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Never actually thought about this, but it rings a bell. I remember various times I would miss the target when it really should be a hit..

@AVRC
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
Alright, that explains why I have to try extra hard to hit anything with the swing. Now someone investigate the lance thrust, both upper and lower one, I know for a fact that the upper one goes in an arch making you land blunt strikes sometimes. The linear path of warband's strikes was definitely more predictable, but I can see why TW did that, it looks more realistic, but it hurts gameplay. I think they should find a middle ground.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Alright, that explains why I have to try extra hard to hit anything with the swing. Now someone investigate the lance thrust, both upper and lower one, I know for a fact that the upper one goes in an arch making you land blunt strikes sometimes. The linear path of warband's strikes was definitely more predictable, but I can see why TW did that, it looks more realistic, but it hurts gameplay. I think they should find a middle ground.
Oh @Terco_Viejo should look into that, lol
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Oh @Terco_Viejo should look into that, lol
Honestly, I don't see much of a problem with the lower thrust. With the upper thrust, it is true that the trajectory of the attack is tilted too much to the left and I think that looking for a hit window with a more straight trajectory would facilitate better accuracy.

Here is a little test:



Modified vs Native
Dramatized
Rqy0V.jpg

As I say, the animation is not the problem, the problem here (imho) is the position of the weapon with respect to the release-reception moment... let me explain.

Currently in combat_parameters, you can define weapon position by setting values according to xyz axes. The problem is that we can't adjust them properly (plausible) because we need rotation values for xyz (leak of that kind parameters in xml files). In the video test made from the tools editor, I have rotated the lance and I think that with a more open release angle, the reception would fit into the hit window much more naturally and accurately.

This, I think, would be easy for Taleworlds to implement.

That said, in the lance thrust animations I think the problem lies more in the position of the weapon (weapon offset rotation xzy) than in the animation itself, unlike the 1h swing slash animation which I think should be reworked in its entirety (sets).
 
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Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
Honestly, I don't see much of a problem with the lower thrust. With the upper thrust, it is true that the trajectory of the attack is tilted too much to the left and I think that looking for a hit window with a more straight trajectory would facilitate better accuracy.

Here is a little test:



Modified vs Native
Dramatized
Rqy0V.jpg

As I say, the animation is not the problem, the problem here (imho) is the position of the weapon with respect to the release-reception moment... let me explain.

Currently in combat_parameters, you can define weapon position by setting values according to xyz axes. The problem is that we can't adjust them properly (plausible) because we need rotation values for xyz (leak of that kind parameters in xml files). In the video test made from the tools editor, I have rotated the lance and I think that with a more open release angle, the reception would fit into the hit window much more naturally and accurately.

This, I think, would be easy for Taleworlds to implement.

That said, in the lance thrust animations I think the problem lies more in the position of the weapon (weapon offset rotation xzy) than in the animation itself, unlike the 1h swing slash animation which I think should be reworked in its entirety (sets).
Yikes, I didn't know it also goes to the left. When I said it goes in an arch I meant in the Y plane:
jaf8uTL.jpg
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Cav buffs? no thank you.
The Subcomandante would be ashamed to read that sentence :iamamoron: .
948px-SubMarcosHorseFromAfar-head.jpg


Really? a buff? :lol: To me this suggestion ranks right up there with the swing arc reviews.... combat fundamentals... buffs are menavlion crushthrought and other **** like passive perks. But hey, you're free to vote.... I'm just surprised you voted based on that ๐Ÿ˜Œ(y) .
 

Joe Friday

Veteran
Damn, I've had thousands of hours in Warband and could never consistently hit my target from horseback with the sword. I almost always either slashed over my foe's head or swung so close to my mount's side that I swear I shaved some hair from his ribs. If anyone else had the same issue or knew what I was doing wrong I'd like to know.
 
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