[Poll] Armor Crafting

[Jamin85]

I find it odd that they are including weapon crafting and customization but not armor. I would really like to see armor crafting implemented as well. It would allow the player to customize their gear and would eliminate endless searching for the best lordly arm pieces as long as you can afford it. I get that this would be additional work/time to implement but I think it would be worth it. What are your thought?

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Due to the way models are made for a character, this is basically impossible. The most crucial part of making a model for a character to wear is "rigging" which means assigning different values to parts of the model so they move with the arms and legs, and to prevent clipping. It is basically impossible to line up all the models exactly without making them all mostly the same, i.e. the same layout, the same position of the waist, the same "thickness" etc. It would also be a lot harder to render since having lots of different texture materials on one character, even if those same materials are used elsewhere, is much worse for performance.

They already have a system where the shoulders are separate from the torso armour and can be interchanged, but it looks overly bulky and there are tonnes of clipping issues.

Weapons on the other hand are just static meshes which never change shape, so interchanging them is much much easier.

 

[Jamin85]

Due to the way models are made for a character, this is basically impossible. The most crucial part of making a model for a character to wear is "rigging" which means assigning different values to parts of the model so they move with the arms and legs, and to prevent clipping. It is basically impossible to line up all the models exactly without making them all mostly the same, i.e. the same layout, the same position of the waist, the same "thickness" etc. It would also be a lot harder to render since having lots of different texture materials on one character, even if those same materials are used elsewhere, is much worse for performance.

They already have a system where the shoulders are separate from the torso armour and can be interchanged, but it looks overly bulky and there are tonnes of clipping issues.

Weapons on the other hand are just static meshes which never change shape, so interchanging them is much much easier.

That makes sense. I guess I was think more about being able to craft the existing armor sets already in the game. I don't know how Bannerlord will work as far as armor modifiers (Thick, Reinforced, Lordly, etc) but I think it would be nice to be able to create the best of any armor as long as you have the crafting skill and money.

 

[FBohler]

Due to the way models are made for a character, this is basically impossible. The most crucial part of making a model for a character to wear is "rigging" which means assigning different values to parts of the model so they move with the arms and legs, and to prevent clipping. It is basically impossible to line up all the models exactly without making them all mostly the same, i.e. the same layout, the same position of the waist, the same "thickness" etc. It would also be a lot harder to render since having lots of different texture materials on one character, even if those same materials are used elsewhere, is much worse for performance.

They already have a system where the shoulders are separate from the torso armour and can be interchanged, but it looks overly bulky and there are tonnes of clipping issues.

Weapons on the other hand are just static meshes which never change shape, so interchanging them is much much easier.

You're presuming free model customization there, but the armor crafting may be just for textures and some very limited model combinations.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Although a cool idea in theory, it'll be wayyyy too complicated to do, especially with the amount of clipping we have with SET armours, I think it'll look a mess if armour crafting came into play.

 

[FBohler]

Although a cool idea in theory, it'll be wayyyy too complicated to do, especially with the amount of clipping we have with SET armours, I think it'll look a mess if armour crafting came into play.

Maybe it won't look much worse than what we have currently.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

You're presuming free model customization there, but the armor crafting may be just for textures and some very limited model combinations.

If it's just different texture then it's the same as what exists in warband to some capacity, and then it's not really customisation, it's just different items.

 

[FBohler]

Call it what you want, armor crafting system can be implemented using simple and subtle customization.

Materials, shapes and forms can be easily swapped with minimal to no model change.



Sure, it won't be as deep and interesting as weapons.

 

[JuanNieve]

I would be satisfied if the lordly version of the armors would be distinguishable from their normal versions. Also, I'd prefer that the greaves would be apart from the main body armor for more combination options.

 

[vonbalt]

Customized weapon crafting + commissioned armor pieces from existing sets with different proprieties like masterwork, lordly, balanced and etc like the mod Silverstag do would be the best of both worlds combined since dynamic armor creation like weapons seems basically impossible to do right because of animation rigging and etc like other people already commented here.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Materials, shapes and forms can be easily swapped with minimal to no model change.

That was true in the 2000s but you can no longer get away with this. Small details are part of the model nowadays. Unless you want everything to look flat and put up with shading errors everywhere, texture edits are limited to colour swaps and some very modest changes to the way materials look. If armour customisation exists in bannerlord it will essentially be different models you swap between, which is basically just the ability to choose between a couple of variants.

 

[FBohler]

I don't know about you, but for me normal & bump mapping and specular mapping make a big difference in visual, even giving impression that the models are different.

Just the ability to pick materials and hues for parts of the armor would be cool enough for me.
Cloth (padded, plain, etc) vs leather (plain, riveted, quilted, etc) vs mail (rings, scales, etc) vs plate. Imagine these options to sub-parts of armor like waist, chest, back, shoulders, gorget, and so on.

 

[Honved]

I don't think it's important for the player to be able to craft armor, but having the option to have looted armor "fitted" to your character, repaired to top condition, or customized in minor ways over some period of time would add to the game.  Pick up a set of armor after a battle, and the odds of it fitting your character should be relatively low.  You SHOULD have to take it to a skilled armorer to have it adjusted or fitted.  The same skilled armorer should be able to repair damaged armor over time, so that "rusted" set you found that looks great on your character, but the stats have taken a serious hit, could then be brought back up to par with a little time and money.

Doing such repairs on the road should be next to impossible for metal armor types (and for crafting weapons), since a proper forge, bellows, and anvil aren't exactly portable, but an armorer in the party should be able to patch up most leather and cloth types of armor.

Of course, most of the in-game features have already been finalized or just need a few tweaks, so I wouldn't expect such drastic changes this late in the development cycle.

 

[RoboSenshi]

I think the OP meant that with enough money to pay a blacksmith or crafting skill on your own, you could craft armors that already exist in the game. Additionally, if your bank account is flush you can further improve the armor piece, Knightly, Lordly etc. Traveling the entire map as a king or Lord searching for the armor you want would be annoying and unrealistic. I'm all for armor crafting.

Sadly customizing armor beyond superficial aspects seems impossible so this solution works very well.

 

[fedeita]

Due to the way models are made for a character, this is basically impossible. The most crucial part of making a model for a character to wear is "rigging" which means assigning different values to parts of the model so they move with the arms and legs, and to prevent clipping. It is basically impossible to line up all the models exactly without making them all mostly the same, i.e. the same layout, the same position of the waist, the same "thickness" etc. It would also be a lot harder to render since having lots of different texture materials on one character, even if those same materials are used elsewhere, is much worse for performance.

They already have a system where the shoulders are separate from the torso armour and can be interchanged, but it looks overly bulky and there are tonnes of clipping issues.

Weapons on the other hand are just static meshes which never change shape, so interchanging them is much much easier.

You are right when you say there's no way to alter the original shape and features of a model without slipping into clipping, at least not with the actual system. 
I see the armour customization as something simplier, take as example a brigandine: you can change the colour, the type of visible rivets or the shape of small parts of it like the collar or sleeves, you can work also on underlayers material like linen-padded-mail.
If we talk about helmets there's really no limit as all of them are already shaped to fit every kind of armour.

 

[FBohler]

Due to the way models are made for a character, this is basically impossible. The most crucial part of making a model for a character to wear is "rigging" which means assigning different values to parts of the model so they move with the arms and legs, and to prevent clipping. It is basically impossible to line up all the models exactly without making them all mostly the same, i.e. the same layout, the same position of the waist, the same "thickness" etc. It would also be a lot harder to render since having lots of different texture materials on one character, even if those same materials are used elsewhere, is much worse for performance.

They already have a system where the shoulders are separate from the torso armour and can be interchanged, but it looks overly bulky and there are tonnes of clipping issues.

Weapons on the other hand are just static meshes which never change shape, so interchanging them is much much easier.

You are right when you say there's no way to alter the original shape and features of a model without slipping into clipping, at least not with the actual system. 
I see the armour customization as something simplier, take as example a brigandine: you can change the colour, the type of visible rivets or the shape of small parts of it like the collar or sleeves, you can work also on underlayers material like linen-padded-mail.
If we talk about helmets there's really no limit as all of them are already shaped to fit every kind of armour.

Basically this.

Craft lordly armor with cosmetic enhancements by changing textures / bump maps / normal maps / specular maps.

 

[Piconi]

I think the most feasible is just changing the metal or leather colour to certain degree.

I dont know wheather their engine is triangulating quaded models, but models oughtt to be quaded as they are being animated slightly ( we ve seen the shoulder pads flapping separately on a khuzait horseman some time ago), but since my 3D modeling is very humble to non existent after 4 years of not touching any program of sorts, i wouldn't know for sure.

What i DO know is that you CAN customise your character more than before. We have underlayer which can be any cloth with "unarmored" attribute.
Then we have "head", "body", "cape", "arm", "leg" armor layers, the "cape" being one giant mixed group of scarves, animal pelts, cloacks, shoulder armor and capes. I was very loud for shoulder armor being in a separate group from others mentioned in it, i even just recently opened this thread in the Suggestion child board of Beta for it.
As it is now, only 2 "cape" layers include both shoulder armor AND a cape of some sort. You cant have more that 1 "cape" layer on you character so you need to choose;either shoulder armor or a cape/pelt/scarf/cloak.
Something can be done in this area so we have more layers of armor, and maybe cloth color and metal color of already exsisting items (iron,steel,bronze, silver, gold), then the armor crafting feature as such wouldn't really be necessary, as we would have huge freedom in customising the general armor apearance inside some reasonable boundaries.

 

[Captain Obvious]

If I'm completely honest, I think they only part of this I'd support is having different levels of an armour piece (lordly, cracked etc).

 

[FBohler]

I think lordly pieces of armor should be customizable with, for example, gilding, rivets and small plates with coat of arms in specific spots.

None of these would interfere with models clipping.

Again, not as deep and interesting as weapons, but fair enough for me.

 

[Honved]

Minor decoration of armor was common: a few rows of brass rings on a suit of chain mail in place of the iron ones, gilded inlays in decorative patterns, and colorful cloth tabards worn over the top of the armor.  Armor wasn't so much "customized" as hand-made in the first place to fit the wearer, so in most armies of the period anything above the mass-produced (but still hand-made) "standard issue" equipment was generally unique, created for a specific individual with the prestige and wealth to afford it, but that's difficult to recreate in a video game where all of the pieces have to fit together without clipping or other visual issues, while having to make 50-100 different sets of armor for all of the Lords in order to achieve that "unique" aspect.

It might be more practical to have several "similar" textures which can be applied to the appropriate standard model, meaning that functionally from a design perspective they would be identical aside from that texture, but they'd still appear to be unique.  While "color" could be different, the range of colors should be limited to slightly different shades of metal, possibly with brass, silver, or gold-leaf fasteners and furnishings, NOT garish hues of red, blue, green, and yellow that make it look like the armor was painted.  Colors and patterns on tabard textures SHOULD be highly varied, while not changing the basic underlying model.  This I see as being common during the timeframe, and easily implemented in a game.