Poll - Are u satisfied with how TW has been tackling this EA?

Are u satisfied with how TW has been tackling this EA?


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Razeo

Regular
I voted 'Neutral' simply because Mexxico is actually trying his best to do his part by communicating with us the consumers. If it wasn't for him I'd voted 'Bad'.
 

bestmods168

Sergeant
I never play the previous Mount and blade, and I'm enjoying this game, but I also think that this game have too many missed opportunities. It could be a historical game, like Skirim or Total war series , but is just a pleasent game.
What I find most difficult to understand, is that there are several factions and kingdoms on the map, and there is no interaction between them, except the war, and even it starts and ends without we realizing why.
You should play warband and its mods. Then you will understand people's frustrations especially when taleworlds have a statement that goes something like this: ...we can make a mod similar to yours and it will be okay to do so...(via terms from the mod tools).
 

Cowbbebop

Sergeant
this game could be the game of the decade if the lore and the rpg side was better exploited.
But no it is disappointing, every thing look very generic in the game, especially npc because the personality trait does nothing, The combat is way too easy, the map is too full of city, villages and castes that you feel the map smaller than warband, no space no wilde. You are too important and powerful way too soon and in the other side, it s way too painful to lvl up your ability. That idea of "influence" was the worst idea ever and totally unimersive. You call to arms people who hate you or you never met and lead a army like it was nothing... army is nothing, siege in nothing because it is happen all the time in the game... so there is no drama and no intensity : Easy to take a castle/ easy to lose one. NCp party can't even get refuge in friendly settlement when they are chased.. they run stupidly until you catch them.. No real dialogue option , nothing to do except war and find a robotic wife to get her gear, get a city, become too powerful, get bored and start a new campaign and dreaming about the beautiful mod in progress on modb.
 

bestmods168

Sergeant
this game could be the game of the decade if the lore and the rpg side was better exploited.
But no it is disappointing, every thing look very generic in the game, especially npc because the personality trait does nothing, The combat is way too easy, the map is too full of city, villages and castes that you feel the map smaller than warband, no space no wilde. You are too important and powerful way too soon and in the other side, it s way too painful to lvl up your ability. That idea of "influence" was the worst idea ever and totally unimersive. You call to arms people who hate you or you never met and lead a army like it was nothing... army is nothing, siege in nothing because it is happen all the time in the game... so there is no drama and no intensity : Easy to take a castle/ easy to lose one. NCp party can't even get refuge in friendly settlement when they are chased.. they run stupidly until you catch them.. No real dialogue option , nothing to do except war and find a robotic wife to get her gear, get a city, become too powerful, get bored and start a new campaign and dreaming about the beautiful mod in progress on modb.
lol. if only these features were implemented correctly, the game would be on a good path. Didn't in warband, the parties can just run into a settlement? If you wanted to pursue them you would have to siege the settlement right?
 
That was a top quality post, thanks. (You could replace the pretentious "Skinner Box" with "grinding" though.)
It goes to show how Mount and Blade's design is, and always was, haphazard and presumably idiosyncratic to the lead designers (Armagan and Steve?). It seems there was no coherent effort to make a better, smarter design for Bannerlord.
Which is a shame, but let's hope there's a modder or two who is serious about design and creates the "as it should have been" experience not only by piling up new random features and models, but by changing and adding game mechanics to make the gameplay actually fun and meaningful.
It's interesting how some players new to the franchise are happy with this, innocently unaware of the gaming bliss that was Warband+mods.

It sounds like there were conversations and design elements that were seeking to make the game more engaging (though, more complex) and those ideas were scraped.

I am also really hoping that a Modding team will have enough access and dedication to create the game many people were hoping for.

There seems to be an identity crisis going on between people (and developers) who want a linear story driven fantasy RPG that is incredibly easy to play and those who want a more sand-box 'create your own story' style game that is difficult to master and more of a simulation (AKA: A game that forces you to get better at the mechanics, rather than babysitting you into thinking you're getting better (perks)).

It sounds like the leadership have decided to support the easier, more accessible (console friendlier) version of the game which means that people who were looking for a deeper experience are going to be consistently disappointed by where the base-game ends up (People who enjoyed Prophesy of Pendor or Viking Conquest, for example). << This is also been a touch point for Crusaders Kings 3, so it's not just taleworlds struggling with this.

I'm not sure if this will be an issue in the long-term: so long as the base game is solid and fully moddable (And there are some mod teams with strong visions and support from devs).
 

Bluko88

Regular
Just wondering how do players view Bannerlords progress.
I have to say "Bad", because I cannot in good conscience recommend this game to anyone.

Granted, yes the game is in Early Access and there's a global pandemic going on. So not only is the game "unfinished" but development is probably being slowed. Although game development should be one of the least adversely workforces given the general nature of their work. But fair enough I'm not a game developer so IDK.

But what I do know is the game is close to having been in Early Access almost a year now and what do we have to show for it? We got settlement icons (a mod that existed early on), we got almost all the Perks, Character Death, and we've got Rebellions. That's not very much and frankly it's not renewing any real interest in the game. Also much of what I mentioned still needs tweaking.

It kind of begs the question what's the point? Why trickle out all these little updates? I just can't see this game ever garnering the interest it did the Spring of 2020. If sales never pick up again why is time and money being put into this? I guess I'm glad TW is fixing some things, but like most games, new patches also bring new bugs/problems too.

My suspicion is TW was in bad spot early 2020, either people left or money was running out, possibly both. (Seriously why release the game to the public only to refactor the code right after?) So they make the desperate move of going Early Access. Game does surprisingly well, probably better then they hoped for. So they've probably got some cash again, but not the initiative to capitalize on it since the plan was really to abandon the game.

I want to make it clear I'm not one of the "TW sucks! Worst developer ever!" people. There are much much much worse game development studios out there. And obviously there are (or were) some very talented individuals working on Bannerlord. This game engine has the potential to put many AAA studio/publishers to absolute shame. But what TW is doing now will not get us to that point. Seriously what's the deal about taking existing mods, changing them a bit and saying they did it? But when the community offers feedback, the answer is usually "Nope! Can't do that!"

I guess I'm in the camp of: Mods will save the game. But the longer this EA malarkey goes on, the less likely passionate individuals will remain to contribute anything. Honestly what prompted me to create an account here is the sheer quagmire this game is in. Also doesn't help the community seems split into "Cheerleaders" and those writing "God is dead!" on the bathroom wall.
 

Pensaci

Sergeant
It sounds like there were conversations and design elements that were seeking to make the game more engaging (though, more complex) and those ideas were scraped.

I am also really hoping that a Modding team will have enough access and dedication to create the game many people were hoping for.

There seems to be an identity crisis going on between people (and developers) who want a linear story driven fantasy RPG that is incredibly easy to play and those who want a more sand-box 'create your own story' style game that is difficult to master and more of a simulation (AKA: A game that forces you to get better at the mechanics, rather than babysitting you into thinking you're getting better (perks)).

It sounds like the leadership have decided to support the easier, more accessible (console friendlier) version of the game which means that people who were looking for a deeper experience are going to be consistently disappointed by where the base-game ends up (People who enjoyed Prophesy of Pendor or Viking Conquest, for example). << This is also been a touch point for Crusaders Kings 3, so it's not just taleworlds struggling with this.

I'm not sure if this will be an issue in the long-term: so long as the base game is solid and fully moddable (And there are some mod teams with strong visions and support from devs).

The thing about this is Game become such a complicated thing. There are people see it as a medium of art, while many trying to heavily optimize it to be as competitive as physical sports. You can call one that focus on simple pleasure a game, yet also those masterpiece-ish world-realizing ones, and I would think both are fair.

Like call a game of a genre, is we trying to align it to a defined expression. This should be a after process that help us understand a game, rather than making it. I think when we talk about 'depth' 'deeper experience',or say 'immersion', most of the times what we really trying to describe is 'true' game experience. The feeling that it is relevant and inspiring, which coming from the best of it's time and self-completion as a single thing itself to it's reasonable extend. It's like WoW didn't come to be because it's story or it's gameplay, which is at the time, and you can say still, the best although heavily competed, but because it's cohesion, completion as a single thing. This is the same thing about GTA is but not just a action story game. So my point is something like this: A good game is about good game experience. Then accessibility is to deliver this experience as much as you can.

I feel like this is a situation where shining objects on the surface take the eye. To me Prophesy of Pendor and Viking Conquest is great not because they have many features or mechanics. In fact I don't think VC is that great because it falls short on extend. Like it is not about just offering everything you can, because not realize them is worse. As a player we tend to notice what's more direct and visible, so we often pick the names. Like skill, or camp, I would even say balance. But the true symptom is more often than not beyond us. It would be too far to call them flavour items, and unfair, but in a sense of matter they are on the narrow extends. What I am trying to say is also not player can't understand thus their opinion/feedback doesn't matter. But in a way, I believe sometimes players, or say we don't know what we really want.

As you also mentioned CK3, take it for an example Ck3 is surely barren in many way compares to CK2. It is torched yes and I think many of those points are solid and true. But I also still think CK3 is way superior to CK2, even if we can't even properly manage city right now. So is BL to WB, to me. I believe people that want a 'deep game' won't be disappointed, by the regard of honesty in real way ofc not just expression, as long as native does it right, achieves what it set out to be, arrives at the extend and delivers a game experience it deserves.

Modding however is the kind of topic I guess. I do get the point, and from the Warband days, I completely understand what mod really is and how much Taleworlds' game can be done. But just when you come from a situation like not very good EA, when you perceive the game as unfinished, it will be a bittersweet process. In my opinion modding is to bring the base game to the next level at it's best, enhance the game at it's least, fueled by enthusiasm and inspiration. It's hard to see a modding community can eventually fix a game. Especially when the world trending to be more online, digital assets and virtual value is tangible as never. I am not very optimistic about the relation between modders and modders and devs.

Sorry if what I am trying to say comes as very confusing! It has to do with my not native tongue and rookie mind.

For the most part tho I feel like I share the sentiment and in a way agree with you.
 

Pensaci

Sergeant
I have to say "Bad", because I cannot in good conscience recommend this game to anyone.

Granted, yes the game is in Early Access and there's a global pandemic going on. So not only is the game "unfinished" but development is probably being slowed. Although game development should be one of the least adversely workforces given the general nature of their work. But fair enough I'm not a game developer so IDK.

But what I do know is the game is close to having been in Early Access almost a year now and what do we have to show for it? We got settlement icons (a mod that existed early on), we got almost all the Perks, Character Death, and we've got Rebellions. That's not very much and frankly it's not renewing any real interest in the game. Also much of what I mentioned still needs tweaking.

It kind of begs the question what's the point? Why trickle out all these little updates? I just can't see this game ever garnering the interest it did the Spring of 2020. If sales never pick up again why is time and money being put into this? I guess I'm glad TW is fixing some things, but like most games, new patches also bring new bugs/problems too.

My suspicion is TW was in bad spot early 2020, either people left or money was running out, possibly both. (Seriously why release the game to the public only to refactor the code right after?) So they make the desperate move of going Early Access. Game does surprisingly well, probably better then they hoped for. So they've probably got some cash again, but not the initiative to capitalize on it since the plan was really to abandon the game.

I want to make it clear I'm not one of the "TW sucks! Worst developer ever!" people. There are much much much worse game development studios out there. And obviously there are (or were) some very talented individuals working on Bannerlord. This game engine has the potential to put many AAA studio/publishers to absolute shame. But what TW is doing now will not get us to that point. Seriously what's the deal about taking existing mods, changing them a bit and saying they did it? But when the community offers feedback, the answer is usually "Nope! Can't do that!"

I guess I'm in the camp of: Mods will save the game. But the longer this EA malarkey goes on, the less likely passionate individuals will remain to contribute anything. Honestly what prompted me to create an account here is the sheer quagmire this game is in. Also doesn't help the community seems split into "Cheerleaders" and those writing "God is dead!" on the bathroom wall.

Yea. I think the point about financial situation and business aspect hits the spot. This is a business at first annd after all, right? It's like the hottest bucket now is Cyberpunk 2077, we can see how ugly and disastrous from outside. But only them the guys know how hot the water is. In the end, we all lose actually.

My take is this is an ambitious journey that went wrong. So now we at a point of "already this far" and "take turn already".
 

Revverie

My main problem with this game is how many features and design choices feel so bleak, old, and uninteresting, just look at the Arenas: They're literally the same in every faction where the only thing that changes is the weapon they use. This serves as an example for how lazy the designers were while making it, they just copy pasted it from Warband, and this problem is applied and carried into the whole game, when you start a new game nothing is going to change if you pick one faction or the other, the devs didn't cared to give variety, they thought this shallow approach fulfilled it's purpose and just let it like that. I hate that, I sincerely completely hate this aspect and I will never like this game for this exact reason. I'm being edgy I know, but it's the truth. Those things that needed a serious update were just left like that, like hideouts, and those that needed way more solving were replaced for even more terrible choices, like companions or marriage. This game underachieved.
 

Mitty

Recruit
EXACTLY THIS :
(by Stromming)
1. I am not satisfied with the output of TW, however it is Covid times and a lot of people work from home, so this is not something we can really do anything about.
2. I am not satisfied with the design choices that the apparent leadership makes about what features make it into the game and which are cut due to being "too complex". This also relates to the dumbing down of AI (or at least wanting to dumb down) which we have all experienced (Horse Archer) and heard about from various devs
3. I am not satisfied with the official responses from certain key people in TW and certain community facing staff. It feels like when we do see them pop-up, they all have very PR-esque, copy&paste non-answers.
4. I am overwhelmed with how fantastic other staff has been. Mexxico, MArdA, Duh, to name a few. There are more awesome devs/artists etc that have posted very long and in-depth posts, but I haven't seen them as much, so I can't remember the names (nor can I find the posts).
 

five bucks

Squire
Lack of communication (except for from a few employees), lack of a long-term set of design goals for the game shared with the community, the disappearance of Armagan engaging with the community since the multiplayer beta, refusal to even confirm the simplest things like whether features from the last game are coming back, and very slow pace are my issues.

I was expecting Bannerlord to have started early access development around the core of Warband, and then start adding the new features onto that, and that seemed like a reasonable expectation to me; but somehow we've regressed in many areas, with no acknowledgement from TW on why, or on when it will be rectified. And that's incredibly disappointing, to see the expectations I had set very low for Bannerlord still not matched after 10 months in EA.

TW said during this EA they wanted to "engage with users on their forum" but @Mitty has it right when he says that TW's community managers are full of non-answers, and that's on the few occasions they deign to answer at all.
 

Revverie

Short answer: no
Long answer:
c6GAvyR_d.webp
 

The Sign of 33

Sergeant at Arms
WF&S
Straight out VERY BAD. Mexxico is honest and aware of the staff and management problems but just the fact we have him doesn't change the answer to that question. To be satisfied with this whole EA process, one needs to expect stuff as if the company has a single employee, the progress in any given time so far never felt like it's coming from a company with around 100 people, rather as if a bunch of students working on a project at most and if TW still can't make it work after this kind of support since the actual sales seems to be a success, we will probably never see a really professional game developer company we hoped for.
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
The thing is the main problems of the game still haven't been changed in any way since the launch of EA and TW has only been doing small tweaks that just make the game less bad rather than making it good. I would recommend warband SP over bannerlord SP simply because of mods, and I would recommend warband mp over bannerlord because bannerlord MP is a failure and it's not close to being fixed.
 
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