Polearms

[Rando]

I was thinking that with polearms they should increase the other weapon proficiencies. Like an awlpike would also increase your two handed proficiency, while an iron staff would increase your one handed. proficiency. Now, it shouldn't increase near as rapidly as say if you were using a war sword; maybe about 1/3 as fast. This would make using polearms off of a horse more interesting.

 

[tsuken]

if the two-handed weapon skill doesn't effect the way you can handle two-handed polearms in any way, it shouldn't increase the skill.

I think all polearms, both one-handed and two-handed are only effected by your polearm skill.

 

[Rando]

Well you see, if polearms were minorly effected by those other proficiencies than using a 2 handed sword would benefit polearms somewhat but not the polearm proficiency specifically.

 

[tsuken]

if polearms were minorly effected by those other proficiencies

Then i think you're completely right, but I dont think it effects it in any way.

 

[corksacker69]

i think the proficiencies system should be revamped. there ouhta be 6 'styles' of weapon usage, 2 handed, 1 handed, dual weld, throwing, crossbows and archery. there could be different skills cooresponding to the different weapons, like swords, maces, short bows, long bows, polearms, etc.

 

[Ilex]

So your "warrior" can hit everything with a long bow, but cant even hit the ground with a short bow? Any idea behind this?

 

[DaLagga]

I always wondered the same thing... Why is it that my character can be a godlike daemon of much death, doom, and destruction with 2-handed swords, but can't even hardly swing a 1-handed sword? And why can he snipe someone's eye at 50 yards with a bow, but can't hit crap with a crossbow? Some skill points really should carry over to similar weapon classes.

 

[Keemo]

I could be wrong but I thought solid training with a bow took nearly twice as long as with a crossbow, similar to why the arquebus gained a lot of popularity because it was cheaper and faster to train troops with.

 

[Kyanor]

I could be wrong but I thought solid training with a bow took nearly twice as long as with a crossbow, similar to why the arquebus gained a lot of popularity because it was cheaper and faster to train troops with.

Well, like I said before, why would the crossbowmen be one of the most revered mercs in medieval history, because the weapons were hard to manufacture, taken care of, reload and prob still took alot of skill to be used efficiently. You could always train peasents with long bows and use them as volley firers, crossbow couldn't do that because of the much more flat trajectory but true aiming crossbow was easy, reloading and maintaince was hard. The bow was simply a glorified wooden stick with a string, crossbow on the other hand was a mechanical device.

 

[UnfathomableJ]

Longbows take much more time to train peasants to use than a crossbow. A peasant could learn how to operate, maintain, and use a crossbow in a matter of weeks, but it took many years for a non-warrior to become proficient in the longbow. Crossbows were stigmatized as much as modern day "Weapon of Mass Destruction", as a peasant of ignoble birth and little training could kill a knight, baron... even a king with a lucky shot.

Thus they were both valuble weapons: the longbow was the mainstay weapon of the backbone men-at-arms, but the crossbow was a great tool for partisan warriors as well as a weapon of terror, thus explaining why Pope Urban II banned them, and why the Second Lateran Council banned Arbalests.

Another advantage is that crossbowmen naturally made better guards against infiltrators and sparse, small formations as the crossbow could be kept cocked for extended time and as a result allowed for quicker firing and easier aimed.

All in all, the crossbow is far from useless--a conscripted warrior with a crossbow could be very dangerous. For all intensive purposes the longbow was only considered a stronger weapon simply because it was "more honorable".

 

[Cleitan]

You know with a long bow, you can take out targets at like the distance of a football field? Thats crazy, thats like a gun target range. I saw this guy with a really long bow doing that at the rennisance faire last year. He was getting alot of head shots on the targets and ended with a groin shot lol. WOuldnt want to mess with a longbowman

 

[UnfathomableJ]

Actually, the average for well-trained longbow men was well above a football field (100 yds) and closer to 1/8 mile (200 meters).

 

[Danath]

the longbow was only considered a stronger weapon simply because it was "more honorable".

For each crossbow shoot, a good archer can shoot over 3 or 4 shoots. And with long bows the damage and range are similar Crossbows are very heavy, wear a chain mail, sword and crossbow.... And bows can be used riding horses.

Btw... what was the topic?

 

[Fidelis]

the longbow was only considered a stronger weapon simply because it was "more honorable".

For each crossbow shoot, a good archer can shoot over 3 or 4 shoots. And with long bows the damage and range are similar Crossbows are very heavy, wear a chain mail, sword and crossbow.... And bows can be used riding horses.

Btw... what was the topic?

Longbows couldn't pierce plate armor unless it hit at a right angle from a close range, but crossbows could.

 

[Rando]

Yea this thread has gotten somewhat out of control. I don't hold anything against longbow/crossbow users. All I was saying was that some polearms are one-handed, some polearms are two-handed. The only problem I see is that there is absolutely no reason to use a two-handed polearm. So I was just trying to think of a way to kinda give some incentive to use two-handers while not really stomping on one-handers (since a lot of people like sword and shield off a horse but use a two handed weapon on a horse). Then people started talking about similar proficiencies working together (which I agree with) and why longbows are teh sex. So yea, all I'm really SUGGESTING (in the suggestion forum, not the talk-about-how-awesome-bows-are forum) is that using a melee/ranged weapon should effect all of your melee/ranged proficiencies respectively (not equally of course, I'm just refering to some trickle over points).

 

[buukenshin]

Actually Longbows could be used for amrour piercing, they just needed special arrows ( bodkin arrows )

that would be a good feature, different types of ammunition.

 

[Danath]

An idea. Instead of:
One handed
Two handed
Throwing
Polearms
Archery
Crossbow

should be:
Swords
Axes
Maces
Polearms
Archery and crossbow
Throwing

 

[bewing77]

I could be wrong but I thought solid training with a bow took nearly twice as long as with a crossbow, similar to why the arquebus gained a lot of popularity because it was cheaper and faster to train troops with.

Well, like I said before, why would the crossbowmen be one of the most revered mercs in medieval history, because the weapons were hard to manufacture, taken care of, reload and prob still took alot of skill to be used efficiently. You could always train peasents with long bows and use them as volley firers, crossbow couldn't do that because of the much more flat trajectory but true aiming crossbow was easy, reloading and maintaince was hard. The bow was simply a glorified wooden stick with a string, crossbow on the other hand was a mechanical device.

Yeomen in England where required to train with longbows every sunday after church since it takes very long time to become proficient with it. Skeletal analysis has even shown that longbowmen developed abnormal muscle and bone structure because of the power required to draw a longbow. The crossbow on the other hand was easy to operate and was very powerful (it was even banned by the church for a period of time). The drawbacks where that it was expensive to manufacture (both the weapon and the bolts) and fired much slower.

Actually Longbows could be used for amrour piercing, they just needed special arrows ( bodkin arrows )

that would be a good feature, different types of ammunition.

I think bodkins are already in the game, just as a damage bonus. Anyways, yes, bodkin arrows could penetrate chainmail, but not plate. Modern tests have been made to verify this. Against plate longbows could only hope to kille the horses or get lucky and hit between the plates.

Back to the topic: I think that yes, there should be some ammount of crosstraining. Even though you are not proficient with a certain weapon a seasoned warrior can handle combat better than a recruit. And some moves are similar between weapon types.

As for weapon skills there should be more different classes. Something like:
Slashing swords
Thrusting swords
Two handed swords
Axes and hammers
Maces
Two handed slashing and blunt weapons (axes and warhammers)
Slashing polearms (poleaxe, polehamer, (halberd prehaps?)
Thrusting polearms (spears, pikes)
One handed polearms (lances, one handed spears)
Archery
Crossbow
Throwing (should realy be separeated to)

And maybe also add a mounted combat skill?