PLEASE STOP THE WARS EVERY 2 MINUTES I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE

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Do you think the war mechanic needs replaced with a more manageable diplomacy mechanic?

  • yes

    Votes: 37 100.0%
  • no

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    37

eritchie

Recruit
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You have to stop the wars being declared every two minutes it is completely ruining the game. Slow down the pace, create a diplomacy system, and stop the Khuzaits zerging the whole map. You actually cant travel back to your territories to recruit and manage your settlements without several wars being declared in the meantime. Its genuinely unbearable I am just trying to enjoy the game make custom armies, manage my towns and I cannot get 2 minutes without a war being declared, often as soon as i have made peace, its insane. Whatever mechanic is churning out the wars needs to be heavily nerfed or better yet replaced with a genuine diplomacy system and politics between kingdoms including trade agreements and alliances.

I am actually having to save over and over again and reload when war is declared just to go on a journey through my towns without losing multiple settlements before i get back to where i started. To travel between Danustica and Quyaz i might have to reload around 8 times to stop a war occurring. And this is even after defeating all empire factions to stop 'the conspiracy' Please do something about this soon.
 

BuckleUpBones

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Sometimes you just wanta go back to old captured towns and manage, but travelling too far from the frontlines and you will lose a castle or two.
 

cnebba

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Yup. That's what stopped my first play through. Now I just avoid the whole thing... But that cuts out so much good gameplay.
I'll acknowledge the early access - balancing a partially complete game whilst completing all the game mechanics, etc. must be well hard.
But,
Please, by the final release, let me build up a little kingdom, manage it well, and pursue some objective without having to re-fight Thermopylae every five minutes.
This is not about difficulty - you can beat the game readily enough - it's about game mechanics writ so large that they cancel any sense of player agency; "You might think you're a merchant prince son, but I can tell you for sure from this point you're just another scruffy warlord." So, the first time I encountered it, I naively tried to fight through to the other side - I remember thinking of myself as the 'Shield of the North', and expecting the slaughter to end at some point - what a kingdom I planned to build. But Nah, it just ground endlessly on. It still does. For early access I expect to accommodate - but some resolution that doesn't devolve into mindless 'rinse and repeat' warfare needs to be squarely on the development roadmap.

Forcing warfare without player agency detracts from many enjoyable game mechanics - simple example - instead of setting up a build queue in a town and continuing to play - revisiting periodically to keep things moving - it's better to just sit there on fast forward until the essentials are done. So why not just mod in a spare army or two, set your stats to max, and then ride around beating up on all comers? Oh, there's a battle simulator for that. Let's just play custom battles and forget about the rest. No, it isn't quite that bad, but that's where it heads if players can't influence the scope of play in a way that allows them to achieve something on their own terms.

A caveat though - one of this game's strengths is that it often feels quite medieval and somewhat out of the player's control - so long as credible player agency remains, this is a good thing (IMHO). Don't turn it into another generic strategy empire builder - just give me some agency about which game mechanic I am choosing to engage with, and let my achievements (in this case winning an enormity of battles) count for something.
 

Wehveechen

Regular
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Same. I don't even enjoy war, battles and conquests that much. I just want to get rich and make friends in peace and the endless pointless wars are pretty much in the way of that. If there was like, a point, goal or objective that justifies the wars and allows immersion, things would be much better.
 

eritchie

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I finally cracked and installed Diplomacy Fixes mod and my god its like a new game.. Use vortex to install it and its pretty easy. You can literally just turn off the wars if you want by putting huge timers on peace. Its completely configurable and will immediately change your game :smile:

Now finally i can go get all my companions kitted out, make custom armies, and just generally have fun... Thx a lot to the mod author. Its amazing how this guy can do in a couple weeks what Taleworlds have still failed too.. Seems like just assume the modders will fix it sometimes
 

Brodie

Regular
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The end game is barely playable specially with your own kingdom, I think there is much into it, more than many of you have seen so far but it's not polished. I think the way it is right now is more or less realistic (if a kingdom is strong enough to conquer other kingdom and is hungry for castles why wait?) but not so funny for the player who does not understand why the kingdoms fight to each other and what can you do to make a long lasting peace.

When you are a Vassal the AI ruler of your kingdom is the one who works this out but when you are the ruler with one castle/town and no loyal vassals it will become a nightmare. It is clear for me that you need to build up noble friends before become a ruler although I haven't tested yet.

I think the kingdom creation feature should be tied to have enough support from nobles that has promised to join your kingdom once it is created, and when you have certain number of supporters (measured by strength) your kingdom raises and supporters remain loyal because they are your friends. At least some days/weeks until they start to get fiefs from you.

In my last playthrough I cost me a lot of charm building with 0,15 learning rate to finally get one vassal (Ergeon) in my kingdom, he deserted 10 seconds later. I had -37 relationship with him so maybe that was the reason but Ergeon is an honorable man (Honest +1) his word should last longer than 10 seconds even with that relationship penalty traits should mean something.

To sum up, the problem will not be solved creating artificial mechanics to control behaviors. They only need to finish the actual mechanics that are not finished/polished/balanced and then test the results and decide if after that do we need more mechanics on top. If they create artificial patches to make the EA version more fun for us it will delay the release as they cannot test properly the actual mechanics.
 

Brodie

Regular
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1
I finally cracked and installed Diplomacy Fixes mod and my god its like a new game.. Use vortex to install it and its pretty easy. You can literally just turn off the wars if you want by putting huge timers on peace. Its completely configurable and will immediately change your game :smile:

Now finally i can go get all my companions kitted out, make custom armies, and just generally have fun... Thx a lot to the mod author. Its amazing how this guy can do in a couple weeks what Taleworlds have still failed too.. Seems like just assume the modders will fix it sometimes
Mods could solve the fun problem, specially meanwhile the game is still in full development, but that mod sounds like cheating. I understand some people like to cheat or play in easier difficulties but I don't. So I´ll keep learning the systems and make suggestions to improve them until they are finished.
 

eritchie

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Mods could solve the fun problem, specially meanwhile the game is still in full development, but that mod sounds like cheating. I understand some people like to cheat or play in easier difficulties but I don't. So I´ll keep learning the systems and make suggestions to improve them until they are finished.
It is basically impossible not to just cheat once you have the mod installed and turn on and off wars as you please.. But its more enjoyable than the grind of constant war. Until there is actually some mechanics involved in the diplomacy for this game it is a big improvement. As far as i can tell there is a chance that a faction will declare war on you everyday and the faction that does so is completely random (it can be an already defeated faction with 0 settlements or the Khuzaits with half the map. This is just about the most infuriating thing about the game. War declarations are not based on anything just completely random and happening all the time. And then the wars themselves are so random too. On this playthrough im doing the Vlandians were losing their last settlement in Vlandia and after i took it I noticed a new red banner at Phycaon (east empire) they had literally left their homeland to take a keep that was around 9-10 days away from their last remaining settlement.
 

VBMeireles

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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To say the "war mechanic" should be replaced would be too much IMO. I think a longer imposed (and not breakable by any means) truce would solve most of the problems. A longer minimum time at war once a war has been declared (maybe same time as the minimum truce time) would be welcome too. I got tired of wars taking just the same time I took to actually "get there" with my army before peace is declared again.

For a more concrete sugggestion:
How long would it take for me, in, say, the westernmost extremity of the map, cross towards the easternmost extremity in a 2000 man army (low speed), siege a city up, build 4 trebuchets, completely destroy its walls and attempt to take it over? A month? Two? Three? The minimum time of peace/war after either is declared shouldn't be below that in any situation at all.

IMO wars and truces shouldn't consist of days or months, but years. It's a matter of game design choices however, and there's also the problem of snowballing. It seems that shorter wars (between shorter truces) seem to be the chosen way of slowing down certain kingdoms' stampedes.
 
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Veli-Matti

Master Knight
WBNW
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Good post OP, having wars constantly is tedious and stressful and if this was intentional I don't know what TW was thinking. It's actually making me not want to play the game since our faction goes to war with another faction literally right after making peace with the previous faction and it never ends.
 

Mindstrip

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Sorry. I am totally in your side. I made my warning about holding 25 days truce days until new replacement is ready. It was obvious players will get sad and gameplay will be effected badly.

Anyway I learnt how new mechanism will be. There will be daily payment for truce. So if truce is broken daily payment will stop too. This will prevent kingdoms breaking truce. This is a good solution but if I was giving final decision I hold 25 days truce days until this new mechanism is ready it was only a small code block preventing new war decleration if there was a truce in last 25 days. Also wars are 2x-3x compared to 1.3 in 1.4 (for example average war count at a moment is 5-6 in 1.3 and 12-13 in 1.4) this is also a bug related to new developments at these systems due to this problem snowballing again started and 1-2 factions usually destroyed in first 2-3 years because there happen lots of hostile actions in all borders because every faction have 3 wars in average.

My suggestion is play 1.3 until 1.4 is ready. I also open this comparision thread(s) to save game aganist possible wrong decisions in future. For example if at 1.4 these problems continue you can vote I prefer 1.3 to 1.4 in next voting. However I am 90% sure they will be fixed and 1.4 will be better than 1.3 however currently 1.3 is better than 1.4 because of these problems according to me. Please be patient. These problems are currently in beta branch and beta branch is a branch for adding new developments and getting feedbacks so I think it is normal beta branch has some broken mechanics your feedbacks will make it better. By the way I do not accept sending broken mechanics to even beta branch but I cannot prevent this to happen in some scenarios.

mexxico for president btw❤
 

Waybook

Sergeant
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1
There should be almost constant wars. Can you imagine being a vassal for a king and there is peace for years? Sounds boring.

What they should do:
1) They should limit wars, so that being at war with several kingdoms at once happens less often.
2) And there need to be breaks between wars, like for a week or so.
3) After a significant army is destroyed in battle, it should be easy to convince that kingdom to accept peace.

But otherwise, there should be constant wars. Or else there isn't much to do. Bandits are too easy in mid-late game.
 

Maximuuus

Regular
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When you're going to be at peace for about 4 in game hour, you'll just understand that it's boring because theyre is nothing to do^^
I agree that endless war is boring... but peace is also boring atm...
 

eritchie

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I disagree... there is so many of things that could be added to the game that you could do during peacetime. Proper quests that utilise the third person game, involve voice acting, and give more rewards than just some better troops occasionally. More construction and infrastructure projects which you play more of a role in and require more management and give better rewards, not to mention intrigues within and between factions, more diplomacy features, feasts, and possibly map events that happen and require response from the player (invasions, rebellions, natural disasters, etc) So much that can be done with this game model to make peacetime actually much more fun than constant war and then make the fights in the late game harder, more decisive and less repetitive.
 

eritchie

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Also we need more logical AI to make the wars more fun. Like the AI armies could go to towns and castles near to one another, this is mimicked by friendly AI armies who would respond by defending the castles and towns nearby. So you might have multiple armies all taking towns and castles close to one another and being shadowed/ attacked by the opposing armies. it would then feel a bit more like coordinated invasion/ war rather than armies and parties going off in all different locations. Yes it would make it more predictable what the AI was going to do but I am not sure this would be a bad thing. Would make it feel more like a real war rather than just random skirmishes and battles all over the place..
 

jonstr

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As the ruler of your kingdom you should also be able to give orders to your clans. Like having them stationed in a region, defending/attacking a city. Now they just run around and you just hope you have some friendlies on the other side of the map if someone declare war on you. If not you have to drop everything and run across the map... They should draw inspiration from Total War to be honest. Peacetime would be more fun if you had to manage food production, unrest etc and not just drop 200K in the city and queue all builds and leave it..
 

TheShermanator

Veteran
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There should be almost constant wars. Can you imagine being a vassal for a king and there is peace for years? Sounds boring.

What they should do:
1) They should limit wars, so that being at war with several kingdoms at once happens less often.
2) And there need to be breaks between wars, like for a week or so.
3) After a significant army is destroyed in battle, it should be easy to convince that kingdom to accept peace.

But otherwise, there should be constant wars. Or else there isn't much to do. Bandits are too easy in mid-late game.
+1. War should be frequent, but victories should be meaningful.

On that note, there need to be war exhaustion and tribute mechanics. I'm thinking of the simple ones from the Diplomacy Fixes mod, but lots of possibilities abound. In some capacity, if you are inflicting a lot of casualties on a large enemy, especially an aggressor, they should eventually weary of the casualties and offer peace. Also, there should be more ways to take defeats in war vs. unconditional surrender / annihilation - like a tribute system, 1x or recurring. (Not the negotiated $1M for 10 seconds of peace, to be clear.)
 

eritchie

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+1. War should be frequent, but victories should be meaningful.

On that note, there need to be war exhaustion and tribute mechanics. I'm thinking of the simple ones from the Diplomacy Fixes mod, but lots of possibilities abound. In some capacity, if you are inflicting a lot of casualties on a large enemy, especially an aggressor, they should eventually weary of the casualties and offer peace. Also, there should be more ways to take defeats in war vs. unconditional surrender / annihilation - like a tribute system, 1x or recurring. (Not the negotiated $1M for 10 seconds of peace, to be clear.)
Ok lets put it this way.. There should be a way to run a build your own kingdom campaign where diplomacy is a much more important factor in managing your foreign relations and avoiding war, If people want constant war they can have it (by behaving in a way that makes other nobles despise you etc). But if you build very good relations with other kingdoms, or there rulers are weak/ appeasers they are much less likely to go to war with you. Also you could build good relations with a faction by fighting together with them against a common foe (requires alliances), again improving relations. Maybe prestige/ notoriety play a role. My main issue is that there is literally no reason for these war declarations it is just a chance that x faction will declare war on you every morning. I have just modded it out the game right now but would really like there to be a better system which presented a challenge that wasnt just win 20 battles in a row and take 10 settlements in a row. That is not a challenge. Currently the only challenge in the game after the initial one is how many thousands of men you can kill before you are worn out and need a rest, or they are defeated. Often you end up just taking and retaking the same settlements because by the time you sieged down one you have lost two others.