MP please remove penalties on using bows/mounts as infantry class and other game-play ideas

[Jesus__is__Lord]

I believe bannerlord's multiplayer needs to move away from the rpg elements of singleplayer

specifically the differing skills and abilities of different classes

i really enjoy the inclusion of the universal ability to use every weapon (using bows as infantry (which wasn't possible in warband)) and being able to mount every horse (also not possible in warband)

but, i think we should take that concept even further by removing the penalty on using bows or cavalry if your an infantry class ( or a archer class using a mount, cavalry class using bows, and archer + cavalry class having less foot speed then their armor/equipment weight would justify therefore a penalty on foot combat)

an infantry class trying to use a bow will not be able to shoot as accurately as an archer class, or be able to ride a horse at the same speed as an cavalry class

these penalties restrict players to playing their specific role on the battlefield instead of adapting

players should be able to ride horses just as quickly as cavalry class and shoot just as accurately as an archer class

this will help the infantry class as well as every other class adapt to different situations that require the use of different equipment/mounts

i believe that enabling characters to compete equally in archery and cavalry will encourage the use of different tactics and allow players to be able to survive in different situations

by allowing every class to equally use all equipment, players can now survive in situations that would otherwise been impossible

I believe the concept of players having a chance at winning in every situation is what makes the mount and blade series great

guaranteed deaths are a frustrating part of gaming, knowing that you cannot do anything to prevent your death leads to a poor gaming experience

i believe this is what players felt when they negatively responded to the game mechanic of "crush-through"

being unable to fight back in a situation where a "crush-through" will kill you no matter how good you are at blocking is frustrating and i think that is why players universally fought against the implementation of this mechanic in bannerlord

following that philosophy we should also remove other guaranteed deaths

one of those is couched lancing,

i believe that blocking couched lancing should be easier to do by chambering

if the chamber mechanic is too broken to use then you should be able to block the couched lance normally like other strikes

horse bump into an unblock-able strike should also be removed

knocking down opponents while going full speed on a horse is fine but please enable blocking while getting up earlier

the horse bumps are a lot better then in warband where players were more adept at consistently performing the horse bump unblock-able slash combo

horses have too much hp

your weight when mounting a horse should affect it's speed, so a heavily armored player shouldn't be as fast on a horse as a lightly armored player

a critical high damage strike should flinch a horse which interrupts the rider's attack (similar to if the rider was struck) so that cavalry cannot just tank through enemy strikes

the mechanic in singleplayer where players could dismount other cavalry from their mounts by doing significant damage to the rider should be introduced to multiplayer

i believe arrows do too much damage to heavily armored opponents

heavy infantry in bannerlord feels alot less effective in warband because of the new penalty to speed while holding a shield

this speed penalty would not be as noticeable if not for archers being able to out maneuver shield bearing infantry(although fighting infantry and archers at the same time is impossible with the new shield penalty bc infantry without shields will outmaneuver you if you do not drop your shield exposing you to archers so therefore the only way for infantry to be viable again is to remove the new speed penalty on shield users and revert to the warband's shield mechanics making it viable for a lightly armored shield bearing soldier to be able to fight both archers and infantry (and cavalry too if you had spear) all at once)

to counteract this i believe that quivers, or other ranged item's holsters should carry a speed penalty greater then that of shields, preventing archers/skirmishers from out maneuvering them, it is IMPORTANT that these ranged items can be dropped at any time to negate the speed penalty so that when an archer has dropped his quiver he can fight with the same foot speed as any other character with the same armor/equipment weight

there should be no speed penalty that is inherent in any class by default, only the speed penalty on the quivers or other equipment/armor they have

all characters should have the same speed if they have the same weight

i do not think that players who choose cavalry or archer class should not have the ability to fight effectively on foot

please add back the ability to wield bastard swords 1 handed without a shield again

you should not be able to be kicked if you are back peddling, kicks are something you have to walk into, not an attack you can charge and kick someone even if they are back peddling backwards

please drop all weapons when you die(not just weapons equipped), it is helpful to be able to loot every weapon a player might have, like when you run up to an archer and they put their bow away to melee so when you kill them their bow isn't dropped

please remove the speed delay in attacking the same direction twice,
this mechanic is useless bc players just hit the block button immediately after attacking negating this speed delay for same direction attacking
this mechanic just adds a pointless button press after each attack taking away from the simplicity of the game and defeating the purpose of having the mechanic to stop players from being able to spam a single direction attack

I understand that having the class system with inherent weakness in each class is supposed to encourage players to play only that role, but i believe that players will naturally differ in their playing styles and that there isn't a need to punish other classes from playing outside their role and being able to survive more situations

if there is a situation where players will tend to go towards a "meta" such as archer class who then mounts a horse(assuming that this play-style isn't fun for the majority of players), then that specific class's equipment needs to be balanced, rather then inherent abilities of the player such as running speed (like having arrows do less damage to heavy armor)

i believe that given the correct balance, there will be a good variety of play-styles without the need of restricting debuffs in the abilities of respective classes

please include battle mode or a "one life mode" in matchmaking

battle mode's worst part was waiting for a new round once you have died, with matchmaking instead of waiting for a new round you can just go back into matchmaking and find a new battle alot more quickly,

i think battle mode should be designed with 1 round so it could be easily integrated with the matchmaking system (people would constantly quit the game if they died instead of waiting so it wouldn't make sense to make multiple rounds if the teams were going to be constantly uneven/ or if they would be uneven due to gold/resource deficiency if you would try to fill up the empty teams with new players between rounds)

with 1 round you wouldn't have the problem of snowballing either (one team getting massive resource advantage and making winning unrealistic for the other team)

another problem of battle mode was when the last couple of people were off in the corner of the map hiding or running away (like with cavalry)

we can solve this by having a decreasing map size like they do in fortnite

instead of having the map decrease in size around a randomly generated point like in fortnite i think that the map should decrease in size around the highest density of players point,

so for example between 2 similar sized armies the highest average density point would be in-between them (in the middle), so the map would decrease slowly in size towards the highest density point to force combat between the two armies

this way players are encouraged not to camp alone, hide, or run away because they have keep within the decreasing map size by following the highest density point where the most other players therefore making battles take less time and be more engaging for the majority of players

also consider speed up the decreasing map size based on the disproportion between the two armies,
so if one army is annihilated and only a small amount of people are left on the other team the map size would decrease in size at a quicker rate

please consider removing the player height option,

the differences in size affects the range of kicks and melee strikes, bc i dislike playing as a large character and having my viewing angle tilted to look at shorter opponents

having other players out range me and out kick me is frustrating

i believe this variable in character height leads to ghost hitting, where players weapons do not touch you but you still die, i notice as a short character fighting other short characters the weapons sometimes do not visibly hit my character but i will still die from the weird hit boxes due to 2 short characters fighting one another

i believe more rewarding combat starts with equality in combat effectiveness

please allow spears to damage/rear cavalry while holding the attack button (which holds the spear up) i do not think that a horse should be able to run through a spear even if the attack hasn't been released yet or is slow or not timed right,

the spear is a pointy object, and if it is held in front of you in any attack a horse should not be able to run through it

i think that you could assign the bracing mechanic to a spear when the attack button is held so that if a horse runs into your spear it will rear/be killed

please consider making all large weapons that do not fit on your waist fall when you change weapons,
like large pikes or large 2 handed axes

make arrows/bolts on the ground destructible,

i want to destroy the arrows/bolts on the ground so that they cannot be used again

please bring back the ability to wield bastard axes/swords 1 handed without shields
i think you removed this ability bc players would die when their shields broke and the bastard axe/sword didn't automatically switch to 2 handed mode

but having the option to wield bastard swords/axes 1 handed is very useful please put it back into the game

perks that influence the way combat functions (battle joy giving unfair advantage in swing speed) should be removed

perks are a terrible addition to the game that further takes away from fair battle by adding unfair advantages to players

players should ideally have all the same abilities to compete in combat but be differentiated by skill

losing to someone of higher skill encourages players to practice

losing to someone bc of a perk or other unfair method ( any that gives an unattainable advantage to another ) is frustrating and a bad design

please make every user interface able to be disabled,

i turn on the command console (hit alt and ` at the same time) and enter ui.toggle_ui to disable everything so i can focus on gameplay

i wish i had the option of turning only cross-hairs on so i could aim, but besides that i like having no distractions

 

[Namakan]

no.

 

[Danny5]

Basically having no troop types, just have 1 troop that can use everything? The class system would be of no use, players would just select one 'troop' and that's it. Sorry I don't agree with this. I also like RP in mp, being an archer only, or a berserker only unit. But having the ability for other soldiers to use other equipment won't be fun. Maybe for deathmatch?

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

Basically having no troop types, just have 1 troop that can use everything? The class system would be of no use, players would just select one 'troop' and that's it. Sorry I don't agree with this. I also like RP in mp, being an archer only, or a berserker only unit. But having the ability for other soldiers to use other equipment won't be fun. Maybe for deathmatch?

there are still troop types, choosing different gear, archers choose bows, cavalry use mounts and infantry get 2 handed weapons

but if there is a situation where an infantry mounts a horse i think he shouldn't be penalized with lower speed while using the mount, or if he uses a bow by having less accuracy

this way there will never be a situation where you would lose just bc your stats are lower because you cannot keep up with an enemy cavalryman who is kiting you because of your decreased speed, or be out shot by an archer who has better accuracy because of penalty against your accuracy bc of the loadout you chose

your limit should only be your own, you shouldn't be penalized for trying to compete in archery or cavalry, (or foot combat either if you are cavalry or an archer (they are given a lesser foot speed penalty that doesnt correspond to their equipment weight))

i think having a fair and equal ability to use weapons and mounts will lead to more diverse and interesting gameplay bc you can theoretically survive every situation rather then being doomed if you are in a situation where you have to use either a bow or a mount (given you are the class that isn't specialized for that loadout)


also you said "i like RP in mp"

i assume this means "role-play"?

when i said rpg, i was only referring to the penalties that are given to infantry when using bows or mounts, or cavalry when using bows, or archers using mounts, or archers and cavalry fighting on foot (there is an unjust speed penalty to lightly armored archers that is unjustified if he drops the quiver which i could imagine is hard to run with)

 

[Danny5]

there are still troop types, choosing different gear, archers choose bows, cavalry use mounts and infantry get 2 handed weapons

but if there is a situation where an infantry mounts a horse i think he shouldn't be penalized with lower speed while using the mount, or if he uses a bow by having less accuracy

this way there will never be a situation where you would lose just bc your stats are lower because you cannot keep up with an enemy cavalryman who is kiting you because of your decreased speed, or be out shot by an archer who has better accuracy because of penalty against your accuracy bc of the loadout you chose

your limit should only be your own, you shouldn't be penalized for trying to compete in archery or cavalry, (or foot combat either if you are cavalry or an archer (they are given a lesser foot speed penalty that doesnt correspond to their equipment weight))

i think having a fair and equal ability to use weapons and mounts will lead to more diverse and interesting gameplay bc you can theoretically survive every situation rather then being doomed if you are in a situation where you have to use either a bow or a mount (given you are the class that isn't specialized for that loadout)

I don't think this would work out in terms of balancing and fairness. Maybe have it when an infantry or even an archer using a mount, they'll be a speed penalty and manervouring. Cause imagine if a berserker from sturgian would ride a horse with heavy armour, he'll be unstoppable. Also the fact that the glaive is OP as is. Perhaps like what I said before, this might be suitable for deathmatch?

also you said "i like RP in mp"

i assume this means "role-play"?

when i said rpg, i was only referring to the penalties that are given to infantry when using bows or mounts, or cavalry when using bows, or archers using mounts, or archers and cavalry fighting on foot (there is an unjust speed penalty to lightly armored archers that is unjustified if he drops the quiver which i could imagine is hard to run with)

Yes I meant role play.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

I don't think this would work out in terms of balancing and fairness. Maybe have it when an infantry or even an archer using a mount, they'll be a speed penalty and manervouring. Cause imagine if a berserker from sturgian would ride a horse with heavy armour, he'll be unstoppable. Also the fact that the glaive is OP as is. Perhaps like what I said before, this might be suitable for deathmatch?

Yes I meant role play.

i do not think a berserker fighting on horse would be op, i think without the speed penalty for using horse as inf, he would be the same speed as cavalry, without a lance, so still vulnerable,

but even if he did have a lance, he would only be just as powerful as any other cavalry

every class would have an advantage in their respective field thanks to the initial equipment selection to their class,

i am only suggesting that the penalty for using other weapons or mounts be taken away so everyone can compete on a level playing field,

if you are worried that one class will be the only class picked, (and it isn't fun to play with) then that class should be balanced,

i think that even if all these penalties were removed players would still have a healthy distribution between the classes

of course i could be wrong, but i think it is worth a try, perhaps when custom servers are out

 

[Poddicus]

Haven't you made this thread already like three times

 

[CaNpoG]

Haven't you made this thread already like three times

Indeed he has. Probably like 4 times already if not more. It's always either "I want a super-soldier who can do anything and use any equipment like heavy armor and a longbow AND ride around with a horse with a glaive" or that weird s*** with him wanting armor to deflect arrows.

 

[VicbossOG]

"please allow spears to damage/rear cavalry while holding the attack button (which holds the spear up) i do not think that a horse should be able to run through a spear even if the attack hasn't been released yet or is slow or not timed right,

the spear is a pointy object, and if it is held in front of you in any attack a horse should not be able to run through it"

Yes let's make cavalry so useless that nobody ever plays it again. This is just a bad idea in so many ways. If you can't get the timing right to rear a horse then maybe practice more instead of asking for an auto-kill cavalry button/weapon?

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

"please allow spears to damage/rear cavalry while holding the attack button (which holds the spear up) i do not think that a horse should be able to run through a spear even if the attack hasn't been released yet or is slow or not timed right,

the spear is a pointy object, and if it is held in front of you in any attack a horse should not be able to run through it"

Yes let's make cavalry so useless that nobody ever plays it again. This is just a bad idea in so many ways. If you can't get the timing right to rear a horse then maybe practice more instead of asking for an auto-kill cavalry button/weapon?

thank you for responding,

i understand your fears that cavalry would not be a viable class is this was implemented,

but i think it is worth a try,

the spear in warband was alot faster then in bannerlord so wielding the spear against infantry and cavalry was viable bc the spear was fast enough to deal with both at the same time,

however in bannerlord the spear is alot slower so you either have to wield a spear and kill only cavalry or wield anything else and kill only infantry (2 handed weapons would be viable if horse bump didn't negate your ability to block therefore you need a weapon to rear cav) and therefore i think that new mechanics need to be introduced to help infantry,

i think infantry is under powered and that cavalry should be more of a support role rather then just tanking through hits as they now are IMO

in napoleon cavalry were that support role bc bayonet could kill cav in 1 hit,

even with that people still enjoyed playing cav, bc their role is to skirmish and hit enemies from behind, not to have the ability to stand and fight as they do as seen in siege now in bannerlord,

i suggest trying new mechanics, and if it does not work then we can simply revert to the old mechanics

 

[Aresthor]

Your brain on reddit.