Please make shield wall like this......

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shield wall formation is walking so slow and easy to break by calvery.
please make shield wall lik this

DCZK_.gif
 

Old-Bull

Sergeant at Arms
shield wall formation is walking so slow and easy to break by calvery.
please make shield wall lik this

DCZK_.gif

Damn. That looks effective, but how do you fit the 4 rows of people holding those shields under the wall? I don't object to getting nuts to butt to save my life, but those guys would have to be inside each other for all of them to be protected from arrows.

By the way, that row of shields still isn't going to stop the charge of a row of 1000-2000 pound horses running at 20 miles an hour.
 
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Antaeus

Veteran
Horses don't charge at walls.

On the other hand, nobody is stopping the horses riding around the sides and charging into the people on the other side, who's shields are now hopelessly entangled with each other and facing the wrong way.
 

Antaeus

Veteran
Horses don’t charge at people either, u less trained for it.

Let me rephrase myself:

I prefer to utilise my expensive war horses that I have put several years and many denars into training, by riding them around the flanks and charging them at opportunistic openings and weaknesses in the enemy line, rather than directly at the enemy line's strongest most charge resistant part, particularly if that part resembles a physical barrier that the horse will instinctively not want to run at.

Especially if that opportunistic opening is the backs of the entire enemy line facing the other direction with only limited ability to defend themselves.

But the wall does look great in isolation on video! Hell, without supporting archers or skirmishers, anyone could walk around that shield wall at a stroll and whack one of them on the head.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
Is there even any historical evidence of something like this being done? Because to me it looks like something either reenactors or well... LARPers would think looks super cool, and try it, without consideration for whether it would be actually tactically sound. What Antaeus mentions is one good reason why I think this might not have been a thing. Too immobile.
Would it protect against arrows? Sure. But so would a roman testudo, and that one does not entangle the shields nearly as much.
 

Seafoodking

Recruit
shield wall formation is walking so slow and easy to break by calvery.
please make shield wall lik this

DCZK_.gif
Don't get fooled by movies dude, shield walls got no chance against cavalry charges. The animal is 6-9 times of human body weight, and run 3 times faster at full speed. A war horse charging at you would send 10+ people flying, and imagine a thousand of cavalries. Only way infantries can protect themselves better against cavalries are 3m+ long pikeman. Aside from that cavalries are too expensive to charge into cheap peasants. I doubt a king would trade 20 peasants for a well trained cavalry.
 
Don't get fooled by movies dude, shield walls got no chance against cavalry charges. The animal is 6-9 times of human body weight, and run 3 times faster at full speed. A war horse charging at you would send 10+ people flying, and imagine a thousand of cavalries. Only way infantries can protect themselves better against cavalries are 3m+ long pikeman. Aside from that cavalries are too expensive to charge into cheap peasants. I doubt a king would trade 20 peasants for a well trained cavalry.
very good point. very true.

yeah I have tried the shield wall, the square formation, the ring formation, all easily break through by calvary charges.

even they have long spears, but seems like doesn't do much hurt to calvary.

I guess the infantry isn't smart enough to attack calvary with spear at the right moment
 

Seafoodking

Recruit
very good point. very true.

yeah I have tried the shield wall, the square formation, the ring formation, all easily break through by calvary charges.

even they have long spears, but seems like doesn't do much hurt to calvary.

I guess the infantry isn't smart enough to attack calvary with spear at the right moment
I think so too, and I think they should allow all spear thrust to have chances to knock horsemen off horses. A strong thrust may not go through armor to impale the man, but might push the man off his horse.
 
Is there even any historical evidence of something like this being done?
Didn't the Romans use interlocking shields in the 'Testudo' - formation and the Byzantiens used something similar called a 'fulcum' to advance through arrow fire.

Philip Rance: The „Fulcum“, the Late Roman and Byzantine „Testudo“: the Germanization of Roman Infantery Tactics? In: Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies. 44, 2004

And those were inspired by the Greek Phalanx where each soldier was covered by his neighbor's shield on his weak side. Just browsing a bit in wiki I find many historical examples from the classic ages and medieval ages.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
Didn't the Romans use interlocking shields in the 'Testudo' - formation and the Byzantiens used something similar called a 'fulcum' to advance through arrow fire.

Philip Rance: The „Fulcum“, the Late Roman and Byzantine „Testudo“: the Germanization of Roman Infantery Tactics? In: Greek, Roman, and Byzantine Studies. 44, 2004

And those were inspired by the Greek Phalanx where each soldier was covered by his neighbor's shield on his weak side. Just browsing a bit in wiki I find many historical examples from the classic ages and medieval ages.
The Testudo is a different kettle of fish compared to the thing from the video. In a Testudo only the first row has the shields forward, while the soldiers behind create a roof(and sides). They do not overlap the shields in front of them so awkwardly. From what I can see of the Fulcum you mentioned, it seems to be similar, with more emphasis put on protecting from above(though in a more gradual manner), than amassing shields to the front.

As for the phalanx, it's a completely different thing, as they did not have rows in the back trying to protect the first row with their shields.

My point of contention with what is in the video is that you have the back rows tangling their shields into a single mess at the front, that could be awkward to get out of to react to changing circumstances.
 
But I could see this kind of wall frightening horses - even trained ones. Horses do not want to smash into walls. Yeah, you are of course right, in the Testudo you do not need interlocking shields as they are rectangular but it becomes a necessity, when using round shields as in your video. I question the ability of making a proper testudo with round shields.
 
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