Please give casual multiplayer the love it needs too

[Amaranth the Druid]

im coming out of a long retirement of not posting just to say

you're thinking is questionable, its makes perfect sense to balance combat feel to the highest competitive level and not the bottom denominator.

its like balancing maps or items in other games for silvers or casual players.
They dont even know what they want.

 

[Scarf Ace]

Can you give me an example of competitive-focused mechanics affecting the non-competitive side of a game?

1. The equipment system is currently said to be global across all modes. It's a system that focuses on strict balance (for competitive) over customisability (non-competitive). Instead of having two different systems, they're going for a one-size-fits-all policy that doesn't actually fit all. This is especially puzzling because the new engine provides new ways in which to customise which Taleworlds has deliberately decided not to use.
2. The most recent info about modes that are not competitive states that the only large-scale default mode will be Siege. Apparently, Taleworlds doesn't see the appeal in mass field battles, when that's what any normal person would expect from the multiplayer side of a game where mass field battles are a core element.
3. The most recent info still says there will be no Battle mode at all, because apparently it's not as good a competitive mode as the new Skirmish. This ignores the fact that Battle mode is very useful outside of the competitive, especially for community events. A feature so simple and important shouldn't need to be modded in.

im coming out of a long retirement of not posting just to say

you're thinking is questionable, its makes perfect sense to balance combat feel to the highest competitive level and not the bottom denominator.

its like balancing maps or items in other games for silvers or casual players.
They dont even know what they want.

It should be obvious that you could have separate systems for different modes, but apparently you can't grasp that.

 

[Orion]

but apparently you can't grasp that.

Nicely said. I like it, but not where you put it. Let's try something else:

If you play stupid games, you will win stupid prizes.

but apparently you can't grasp that.

There, I think that has a better flow.

 

[Gibby Jr]

隐藏

Can you give me an example of competitive-focused mechanics affecting the non-competitive side of a game?

1. The equipment system is currently said to be global across all modes. It's a system that focuses on strict balance (for competitive) over customisability (non-competitive). Instead of having two different systems, they're going for a one-size-fits-all policy that doesn't actually fit all. This is especially puzzling because the new engine provides new ways in which to customise which Taleworlds has deliberately decided not to use.
2. The most recent info about modes that are not competitive states that the only large-scale default mode will be Siege. Apparently, Taleworlds doesn't see the appeal in mass field battles, when that's what any normal person would expect from the multiplayer side of a game where mass field battles are a core element.
3. The most recent info still says there will be no Battle mode at all, because apparently it's not as good a competitive mode as the new Skirmish. This ignores the fact that Battle mode is very useful outside of the competitive, especially for community events. A feature so simple and important shouldn't need to be modded in.

im coming out of a long retirement of not posting just to say

you're thinking is questionable, its makes perfect sense to balance combat feel to the highest competitive level and not the bottom denominator.

its like balancing maps or items in other games for silvers or casual players.
They dont even know what they want.

It should be obvious that you could have separate systems for different modes, but apparently you can't grasp that.

You must not have been around when Skirmish was announced as the new "competitive mode"; 90% of the competitive community was arguing against Skirmish and in favour of bringing battle back. Here's an example of the opinion of one competitive player on the removal of battle. You seem to be under the impression TW is catering to the competitive community of Warband by adding Skirmish. It is demonstrably doing the opposite of what the Warband competitive community want in regard to gamemode.

I would have liked free equipment selection to be the norm in Bannerlord MP as well; I like the variety of gear it lets you take and how it adds a level of economy management to competitive. I'm not in favour of the class system, and I've seen most other competitive players argue against it as well. There wasn't as much drama about that on the forum though so I can't remember any threads to point you to, but if you asked a competitive player which they preferred I'm pretty sure the majority would tell you they want free gear selection. TW is not catering to the competitive Warband community with this change either, they are just doing what they think will simplify the gear selection process.

You are making arguments based entirely on conjecture when you are completely unfamiliar with the Warband competitive scene. You keep arguing as though every competitive player is under the impression that competitive Warband is this huge thing that is super important. Nobody that has replied to you has made the point that competitive Warband has a large playerbase, instead they have pointed out the longevity of the community. Competitive Warband was 100% community run until 2017, and even then there was only one TW tournament in the form of Bucharest, with essentially no official support. Yet somehow the scene has managed to stay alive for this long. That's an impressive feat, especially for a game in which no competitive aspect was intended, and I don't see how TW offering a small amount of support to this scene in Bannerlord (when really we all know SP is gonna be by far the main focus) is a bad thing.

You also seem to think the Warband competitive scene is isolated. This is the strangest part of your post and indicates that you really aren't that active in MP for anything other than random native servers. There is a lot of crossover between the Warband competitive scene and mods like Mercenaries, and there are even a fair number of competitive NW players which dabble in competitive Native with some regularity. When I've played mods like PW everyone was always obsessed over their melee skill, even though they were on a mod with a completely different mode to Native, because a lot of people are naturally competitive. Evidently there is something about competitive Warband that attracts people, otherwise it wouldn't have survived for nigh-on ten years; the same can be said for NW competitive, which has hundreds of players that don't feature in competitive Native at all.

A lot of modern games have a competitive element to their MP. There is no harm in having some sort of competitive support ship alongside the other modes in Bannerlord. I suggest you read about the whole battle fiasco before you comment about that more; I am pretty sure I remember Callum confirming at some point throughout that backlash that there would be a mode very similar to Battle in Bannerlord?
Here's the reply I'm thinking of: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375172.msg8939987.html#msg8939987
There was more discussion about it here (non-competitive specific): https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375184.0.html

 

[Ratvioli]

Scrap this skirmish bs and give us the chaotic MnB MP experience, this is what the majority of people want, let the competitive scene mod the **** out of it to mimic this boring soulless gamemode that TW is trying to so hard advertise, if that's what THEY want.   

 

[578]

Casuals are overrated. Fromsoftware games continue to prove that high difficulty feels rewarding and we do not need casuals dumbing down experiences. That said, you still have siege and deathmatch, there is no reason for this thread. Stop whining, competitive players deserve their piece of the cake because they keep a big portion of this community alive, all the doom and gloom since the last dev blog is beginning to piss me off.

None of what I asked for is about dumbing down the game, and this would be obvious if you had read the thread properly. Alas, elitists normally don't bother with that sort of thing.
In addition, competitive parts of games aren't off limits to casuals, as there are ranking systems, and less serious modes do generally still reward you for being skilled.
The competitive scene, especially with its ridiculous elitism has probably done absolute jack to keep the M&B community alive. That achievement goes to primarily to battle events, roleplaying, custom maps, modding (especially of the native-compatible sort) and large servers.
Warband's competitive community is basically invisible. There's no bigtime twitch presence, "major" events are few and far between. Compared to far older games with less developer support, Warband's competitive community is nowhere. Small scale competitive just isn't M&B's strong point regardless of skill ceiling.

So therefore, if Taleworlds overemphasises the competitive side of MP to the point where it influences the rest of it, that'd be a bad idea.

Now you're just talking sh*t, won't bother.