Please give casual multiplayer the love it needs too

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Scarf Ace

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
Reading the latest devlog, it's striking how similar it is to previous ones that were about multiplayer: Emphasis on strict balance, competitive viability, small player numbers, and so on. Basically, the entire blog post is about how this flagship gamemode for MP is an incredibly curated experience.

I think this design philosophy is a complete 180 from the mindset that gave Warband MP its success.

I don't have anything against the inclusion of such a mode. If TW wants to build a healthy esports scene, that's great. However, I worry that this mindset is also going to harm Bannerlord MP by having it seep into places where it just doesn't belong, places where I think the majority of multiplayer will happen. In addition, overemphasising 6v6 competitive multiplayer in a world saturated with 10-12 player competitive games might make people watching from the outside overlook the far more unique and attractive aspects of multiplayer, which I think are mostly embodied in the more casual side of M&B.

My greatest concern is the class system. You pick a class and a perk. That's that. No more exact gear customisation. The idea of course is to give the developers more control over how players equip themselves to create a more balanced experience.
However, if we look at fan favourite, more casual modes like Siege, DM, TDM, and so on, choosing balance over customisation seems like a total misstep. It's far from uncommon to see people deliberately choose loadouts that are suboptimal in such modes, because they're just hopping on to have some fun. It's not necessarily about winning, kdr, or anything like that.
To me it would therefore stand to reason that if anything, customisation should be heavily emphasised outside of competitive gameplay, to a degree that should totally outdo Native Warband.

For example:
Provided technical limitations don't get in the way, bringing custom weapons into multiplayer would be absolutely awesome. Have it be a menu alongside the face customisation or so. You would of course have different weapon parts for each faction, so that you aren't running around with a very Vlandian looking weapon when playing as the Khuzaits, for example.
Whether you're designing weapons to be the most optimal, to be the most suited to your individual playstyle, to look cool, or just to be silly and humiliating to get killed by, all reasons are equally valid. I normally don't like corny phrases like "self-expression", but I think it's part of what makes Warband so fun, and something that should be pushed further in Bannerlord.

This carries over into the gameplay itself. I hope that testing will not only be about competitive modes and making everything wonderfully balanced and whatnot. Casual modes are probably gonna be as frequently played as, if not more frequently played than competitive, and so getting them right is at least as important. Of course in this case, testing would be more about other aspects: Raw fun, balancing clear-cut vs chaotic gameplay, variety, sense of scale/"epicness", etc.
Mount & Blade is known for the scale of its battles, this capability should be taken advantage of. Siege is obviously good at this, but a mode for big field battles is just as important because castles and cities impose limitations on how you play. A balance would have to be struck here between keeping downtimes low enough without going respawn-crazy.

Well, those are one guy's thoughts at least.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Scarf Ace said:
My greatest concern is the class system. You pick a class and a perk. That's that. No more exact gear customisation. The idea of course is to give the developers more control over how players equip themselves to create a more balanced experience.
However, if we look at fan favourite, more casual modes like Siege, DM, TDM, and so on, choosing balance over customisation seems like a total misstep. It's far from uncommon to see people deliberately choose loadouts that are suboptimal in such modes, because they're just hopping on to have some fun. It's not necessarily about winning, kdr, or anything like that.
To me it would therefore stand to reason that if anything, customisation should be heavily emphasised outside of competitive gameplay, to a degree that should totally outdo Native Warband.
While I think the new system is better design-wise and that I would personally enjoy it more, I have to admit I'm disappointed about this too.
There have been too many players who have voiced their discontent on this subject at this point to be ignored.
I think it would be a massive missed opportunity if Taleworlds chooses not to include Warband style game modes as well.

I'm excited for the new multiplayer systems. I just wish I could go back to playing Warband style multiplayer but in Bannerlord's engine.

Scarf Ace said:
Mount & Blade is known for the scale of its battles, this capability should be taken advantage of. Siege is obviously good at this, but a mode for big field battles is just as important because castles and cities impose limitations on how you play. A balance would have to be struck here between keeping downtimes low enough without going respawn-crazy.
I'm confused at the lack of focus on this aspect. You'd think they'd want to capitalize on what made Mount & Blade popular in the first place.
Not that this won't be present in multiplayer, but I find it odd that they're giving this so little attention considering that this is the primary appeal of the series.
Maybe a dev blog will prove me wrong.
 

Dethikus

Banned
WBNWVCWF&SM&B
Yeah, this was the biggest disappointment to me when it was announced. An absolute travesty. I'm a single player guy, multi doesn't have much draw for me, in any game. But the freedom of equipment along with the Battle gamemode was like no other game I've played and I became a multiplayer guy for awhile. The customization of gear, choosing your load-out piece by piece, depending on the scenario or team compositions. It was just so great, and the 1 life battle mode felt really good along with that. Then TW destroyed it all. They had this awesome crazy unpredicatable fun formula and they're throwing it away. This was awhile back and I do think they said battle mode would be coming back, but the equipment selecting would not be.

TLDR; TW have **** the pooch and will not be swayed. Is is for the money? Sweet esports shekels? Balance obsession?  :facepalm:
 

BayBear

Knight
I am withholding judgement of the perk system until after giving it a good go. Tbh the Warband model is not particularly fair with the current snowball effect. My read on it is Taleworlds wants everyone to start on a level playing field and let individual skill be the defining difference maker, not top tier equipment.

I would be surprised if the Warband system isn’t available or couldn’t be modded into private servers, or at least some semblance of the old model.
 

HUMMAN

Banned
Well i liked custom weapon and etc. But i  think TW should have just few competitive modes they trust and rest of multiplayer should be custom&fun modes created by the community. I dont even think there is a need for siege multiplayer option, community would create and select the best siege multiplayer mode for themselves. Helping community and free thinking-trying always brings best results and good game modes. Take an example Warcraft III maps, dota was born there. Blind valve brought back custom map-mode sprit much later in dota2, and right now there is dotaChess mode which attracts many new players from other genres an becoming a new game itself. Similarly counter strike & team fortress were mods of half-life. Same story in warband. So TW should try to create a free atmosphere as much as possible in multiplayer too, letting people host free servers etc. For money skins are a good proven way of income, (not affecting gameplay and stats just differing style&texture of armor and weapon) emphazing  "self-entity".
 

lolbash

Master Knight
WBNWVCWF&S
overemphasising 6v6 competitive multiplayer in a world saturated with 10-12 player competitive games might make people watching from the outside overlook the far more unique and attractive aspects of multiplayer

There will still be modes like Captain Mode, TDM, Deathmatch and duels.

However, if we look at fan favourite, more casual modes like Siege, DM, TDM, and so on, choosing balance over customisation seems like a total misstep.

The learning curve is a very common complaint in Warband multiplayer, and it didn't help that the more kills youu get, the more gold you have to spend on more armor and better weapons and horses. This allowed players with skill to conpletely dominate the game. Theres also a reason why most of the popular mods are TDM and Siege is because of the high playercount, its easier to get kills and hide your KD ratio with the other hundred players who have no idea what they are doing.

The class system I believe is suppose to lower that gap so that new players can pick knight gear and elite infantry to still be able to fight and win some kills.
 

BayBear

Knight
HUMMAN said:
For money skins are a good proven way of income, (not affecting gameplay and stats just differing style&texture of armor and weapon) emphazing  "self-entity".

Please no skins. Taleworlds has the benefit of having no shareholders to appease, they don’t need the petty cash flow.
 

HUMMAN

Banned
BayBear said:
HUMMAN said:
For money skins are a good proven way of income, (not affecting gameplay and stats just differing style&texture of armor and weapon) emphazing  "self-entity".

Please no skins. Taleworlds has the benefit of having no shareholders to appease, they don’t need the petty cash flow.
Firstly i dont believe skins ruins anyting in gameplay if adding nothing. Money is not  bad if used as a tool, it is harmful when used as aim. I am sure extra money would bring better projects just like how Armagan Bey spends Warband's sweet money on Bannerlord project. Also skins are keygate to free to play genre and larger player base. It would be possible to have freetoplay bannerlord multiplayer with skins for example. It would benefit everyone, TW, players who buy and players who dont buy.
 
This is very subjective but I don't understand this "customization" thing, apart from those five minutes of trolling while running around naked which I got bored of pretty quickly. Whenever I changed equipment in Native it was just to upgrade to a better armour or weapon, I didn't particularly like the look of any piece of gear over another, and if I were just after a good look I'd find the equipment selection to be too limited for that purpose anyway. I like the direction they're taking with this as it seems more balanced and prevents snowballing to hell.

The only actual "choice" which mattered to me was the weapon. Sometimes I preferred using a two handed weapon, sometimes I wanted more range so I picked a sword over an axe, or a mace. Even if this type of selection is limited for the sake of balance, I'm fine with it, although there could be a distinction between "competitive" modes and "casual" modes, with the latter enjoying more freedom in equipment choice. I also remember that Callum a while ago mentioned something about custom gamemodes, which perhaps could play a part.

If I wanted more "look" customization /even/ in competitive modes in terms of clothing and armour, I think skins which don't impact stats could be a good option, and I'd be happy with that system.
 

HUMMAN

Banned
Well you want to pay for multiplayer mode, private servers, also will cry to perk system and other stuff TW will do bad  :mrgreen: Good luck, but i gotta accept your idea is better.
 

Ahmed_Ten

Recruit
OP, you can just read the latest dev blog to know that his is just a fleeting dream. Better to face reality and just find a different game dev to make the game for us. Im going to tel you now, it won't be Taleworlds in the near future.

Read more about it here

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,382758.0.html
 

donraj00

Recruit
Stop ****posting, there are still siege and battle modes going to be in the game. Also along with the commitment they've given to making the game moddable I seriously doubt they are going to restrict servers from being able to have customizable loadouts et cetera...
 
Can we just focus on making good single player first. Single player is why this game excists, multiplayer is secondary priority. Post launch they can improve multiplayer for all i care, i will play it at some point, but single player is what makes or breaks this game.
 

Noudelle

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Ruler of Calradia said:
Can we just focus on making good single player first. Single player is why this game excists, multiplayer is secondary priority. Post launch they can improve multiplayer for all i care, i will play it at some point, but single player is what makes or breaks this game.
I don't see why multiplayer should be a secondary priority. A lot of people will buy this game in large part because of the multiplayer, me included. If they release the game with a half-finished multiplayer component, then they'd be stuck with a PR ****storm which they would rightfully deserve.
It would all depend on the context of how the choose to release the game but either way, releasing one half of the game and not the other isn't good for their image.
 
Noudelle said:
Ruler of Calradia said:
Can we just focus on making good single player first. Single player is why this game excists, multiplayer is secondary priority. Post launch they can improve multiplayer for all i care, i will play it at some point, but single player is what makes or breaks this game.
I don't see why multiplayer should be a secondary priority. A lot of people will buy this game in large part because of the multiplayer, me included. If they release the game with a half-finished multiplayer component, then they'd be stuck with a PR ****storm which they would rightfully deserve.
It would all depend on the context of how the choose to release the game but either way, releasing one half of the game and not the other isn't good for their image.

Agreed. Although I would play Bannerlord's campaign way more than I played Warband's, since it appears to be greatly improved and less repetitive, multiplayer is the main reason I play Mount & Blade and most of the games in my steam library. If they released the game with broken multiplayer just because it's a "secondary priority" and "can be fixed post launch" I'd be pretty pissed.

Also, I have no data to back this up so this is pure speculation from my personal experience, but I believe that while the majority of players is found in singleplayer, those who play multiplayer are usually those who play thousands of hours.
 

578

Banned
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
Casuals are overrated. Fromsoftware games continue to prove that high difficulty feels rewarding and we do not need casuals dumbing down experiences. That said, you still have siege and deathmatch, there is no reason for this thread. Stop whining, competitive players deserve their piece of the cake because they keep a big portion of this community alive, all the doom and gloom since the last dev blog is beginning to piss me off.
 
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