Please fix/remove death in battle

[Arkyll]

When the game came out this was an option, now it is purposefully bundled in with the entire concept of death itself.

But the problem isnt necessarily that lords have a chance of dying, its that they have a chance of dying in battles that you fight.

This obviously means that factions that you dont fight will continue to grow and grow in size whereas ones that you fight with and against will dwindle in time.

Why there isnt also a chance (at the minimum) for lords to die in simulations too is beyond me. This is such a gigantic oversight.

This is yet another means for factions to snowball. Imagine how comfy the Khuzaits will be with full clans if you have been playing Vlandia for thousands of days.

This is honestly one of the things that needs fixing ASAP.

 

[Ling*]

Why there isnt also a chance (at the minimum) for lords to die in simulations too is beyond me. This is such a gigantic oversight.

This is a really good point, I too think that Ai Lords should definitely have a death chance during simulated battles. It would balance out the other factions that you don't fight by allowing their lords to take casualties, and would make the world feel more dynamic and independent of player input. Obviously I think this should be an optional feature, as some people may not want this mechanic in their playthrough as much as I do.

 

[Galvar]

They said around (IIRC) 4-5 months ago that they're aware of this issue, but consider it a low priority. Seeing the amount of threads about this issue, players don't consider it a low priority though.

Thankfully modders came to our rescue and there are some mods that disable death in battle. Personally I use this one. There was also a mod that introduced death and surrender in all simulated battles, but it hasn't been updated since December, so I don't know if it works. It's called AI Values Life.

Anyway, I expected them to fix it in a few months. Months have passed and we got no update on this. I'd like them to finally address this issue again. Are they really gathering data for bugfixing deaths in battle for that long?

 

[Arkyll]

They said around (IIRC) 4-5 months ago that they're aware of this issue, but consider it a low priority. Seeing the amount of threads about this issue, players don't consider it a low priority though.

Thankfully modders came to our rescue and there are some mods that disable death in battle. Personally I use this one. There was also a mod that introduced death and surrender in all simulated battles, but it hasn't been updated since December, so I don't know if it works. It's called AI Values Life.

Anyway, I expected them to fix it in a few months. Months have passed and we got no update on this. I'd like them to finally address this issue again. Are they really gathering data for bugfixing deaths in battle for that long?

Wish I knew about Staying Alive beforehand. Didnt even know a mod fixed the problem.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Nah kill em all! All bots must die! 1 Clan to rule them all(when they're all dead)!

 

[Julio-Claudian]

This is a really good point, I too think that Ai Lords should definitely have a death chance during simulated battles. It would balance out the other factions that you don't fight by allowing their lords to take casualties, and would make the world feel more dynamic and independent of player input. Obviously I think this should be an optional feature, as some people may not want this mechanic in their playthrough as much as I do.

I think they said they plan on implementing that at some point but it's taking forever.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I think they said they plan on implementing that at some point but it's taking forever.

Yes IIRC it's going to be 2% and 2% chance for live battle as well. I hope they adjust the AI breeding too and make sure there is an age range of children at the game start so there will be a steady replacement of new adult over the first 20 years.

As it is there's only a few and then a wave when the new babies start become adults, but it's not good enough because of fertility age% and child count penalty, if they don't happen to make a few in the early game, the women probably won't at all over the next 15 years.

Need some Orphanages and Cabbage patches.

 

[Bluko88]

When the game came out this was an option, now it is purposefully bundled in with the entire concept of death itself.

But the problem isnt necessarily that lords have a chance of dying, its that they have a chance of dying in battles that you fight.

This obviously means that factions that you dont fight will continue to grow and grow in size whereas ones that you fight with and against will dwindle in time.

Why there isnt also a chance (at the minimum) for lords to die in simulations too is beyond me. This is such a gigantic oversight.

This is yet another means for factions to snowball. Imagine how comfy the Khuzaits will be with full clans if you have been playing Vlandia for thousands of days.

This is honestly one of the things that needs fixing ASAP.

Nah this is fine. (/end sarcasm)

I've been thinking of making a post like this myself. So this is the state of the Southern Empire, the only Kingdom I've joined, as of 1106 in a current playthrough with no reloads. So I haven't really skewed the results in my favor. Also I have not committed any Executions.

*Note I got one Khuzait Clan to join SE as well as a former Rebel Faction. Also Ira apparently gave her Mom the middle finger and married into the Western Empire (so much for inheritance LOL). A few characters from SE have died of old age, but majority are battlefield deaths.

Southern Empire (excluding my Clan):

Spoiler

Now here's Vlandia, a kingdom I've had 0 war interaction with basically. Only deaths are from old age.

Spoiler

And while yes I do inflict a fair amount of character causalities on neighboring Kingdoms, if the game eventually comes down Vlandia vs. Southern Empire - Vlandia is going to have a huge advantage being able to field way more parties. While I may be able to defeat my neighbors by grinding them down here, in the end, by participating in battles I've effectively handicapped my Kingdom being the Grim Reaper.

I realize the current battle death rate is going to be knocked down to something like half of what it currently is, but it needs to happen sooner rather then later. Anyone playing now with it enabled is going to have a very skewed save file - which is not helpful for any future testing.

It is absolutely imperative that deaths be enabled in A.I. battles, otherwise as OP stated, you're going to create real snowballing problems late game - if not outright make the game unplayable.

Granted the rate should be fairly low - but it's a really bad move to punish the player for actively playing the game. Sure the player enjoys some advantages, but the A.I. has its share of cheats too.

In all honesty I believe this is so horribly skewed that I should stop playing altogether as none of these saves will be viable for much.


Nevermind the fact that all Clans will eventually become Tier 6 as is too. There really should be some Renown loss implemented for losing battles. Having every Clan/Character being able to field huge Parties is also going to damage the Late Game experience in its own ways. I realize balancing food production, etc. is difficult but Characters/Clans should be relatively straight-forward. There's no excuse for its current inception, especially when it's been months here already.

Edit: Did the math SE (my Kingdom) has 11 Clans and 63 Nobles while Vlandia has same 11 Clans and 87 Nobles. And things will only get worse if I continue this save.

 

[fanugi]

Nah this is fine. (/end sarcasm)

I've been thinking of making a post like this myself. So this is the state of the Southern Empire, the only Kingdom I've joined, as of 1106 in a current playthrough with no reloads. So I haven't really skewed the results in my favor. Also I have not committed any Executions.

*Note I got one Khuzait Clan to join SE as well as a former Rebel Faction. Also Ira apparently gave her Mom the middle finger and married into the Western Empire (so much for inheritance LOL). A few characters from SE have died of old age, but majority are battlefield deaths.

Southern Empire (excluding my Clan):

Spoiler

Now here's Vlandia, a kingdom I've had 0 war interaction with basically. Only deaths are from old age.

Spoiler

And while yes I do inflict a fair amount of character causalities on neighboring Kingdoms, if the game eventually comes down Vlandia vs. Southern Empire - Vlandia is going to have a huge advantage being able to field way more parties. While I may be able to defeat my neighbors by grinding them down here, in the end, by participating in battles I've effectively handicapped my Kingdom being the Grim Reaper.

I realize the current battle death rate is going to be knocked down to something like half of what it currently is, but it needs to happen sooner rather then later. Anyone playing now with it enabled is going to have a very skewed save file - which is not helpful for any future testing.

It is absolutely imperative that deaths be enabled in A.I. battles, otherwise as OP stated, you're going to create real snowballing problems late game - if not outright make the game unplayable.

Granted the rate should be fairly low - but it's a really bad move to punish the player for actively playing the game. Sure the player enjoys some advantages, but the A.I. has its share of cheats too.

In all honesty I believe this is so horribly skewed that I should stop playing altogether as none of these saves will be viable for much.


Nevermind the fact that all Clans will eventually become Tier 6 as is too. There really should be some Renown loss implemented for losing battles. Having every Clan/Character being able to field huge Parties is also going to damage the Late Game experience in its own ways. I realize balancing food production, etc. is difficult but Characters/Clans should be relatively straight-forward. There's no excuse for its current inception, especially when it's been months here already.

I found the same thing happening in my current play through and usually i quit by now but i want to see how this all works out as far as army power goes. I broke off from the Western Empire to start and I have recruited some nobles to my side and I am actually doing really well in this play through but I need to recruit more nobles all the time. How did you recruit the rebel noble? I can't figure out how to do that and they just run around my map attacking looters. Is there a dialog option i am missing? Then i thought i would attack the towns that are rebelling but it doesnt come up as an option when i get to their town. I go to the diplomacy screen and there is no option to wage war. What am I missing?

 

[stevehoos]

Trying to talk logically with some of the dev choices in this game is a lost cause.

 

[black_bulldog]

Trying to talk logically with some of the dev choices in this game is a lost cause.

Idk about logic, but it's clear that TW really doesn't care about player feedback, unless it fits into their vision for the game, whatever the **** that is...

 

[nyarlathotep1975]

Nah kill em all! All bots must die! 1 Clan to rule them all(when they're all dead)!

wrong game. if you want to rule over some corpses try graveyard keeper

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

wrong game. if you want to rule over some corpses try graveyard keeper

How is it the wrong game? Execution is one of the few actual features added to the game warband doesn't have. It makes it too short and easy, but it's fully functional unlike almost every other new non-wb feature.

 

[nyarlathotep1975]

it is the wrong game cause TW forgot to implement a feature that let´s you rule over corpses.
sry. I´m german, sometimes i forget that we don´t have humor and can´t make jokes.

 

[Antaeus]

I love death in game. We need more of it. I particularly enjoyed it when they turned the frequency up while testing.

What they need is a replacement mechanism that keeps up with deaths. Turning wanderers into lords would help. A few more teenagers at game start would too.

 

[Julio-Claudian]

Yes IIRC it's going to be 2% and 2% chance for live battle as well.

I don't get why that hasn't already been patched in after so many months. None of the mods which fix it work past 1.5.7, I tried 1.5.8 but it felt like a downgrade for that reason.

 

[Philozoraptor]

Dont worry guys, its EA, after few years they will have all bugs related to this feature ironed out and will switch it to 2% by changing one line of code.

 

[MostBlunted]

I don't get why that hasn't already been patched in after so many months. None of the mods which fix it work past 1.5.7, I tried 1.5.8 but it felt like a downgrade for that reason.

They like to see us suffer

 

[AndrewArt]

I love death in game. We need more of it. I particularly enjoyed it when they turned the frequency up while testing.

What they need is a replacement mechanism that keeps up with deaths. Turning wanderers into lords would help. A few more teenagers at game start would too.

I too want death for the player and NPCs. But the low rate of death is fine, it makes it feel more significant when it's rarer, it just needs to happen without player interaction as well. 1-2% death chance for lords, companions, and the player, gives everyone a chance to live to a longer age (though many won't), and it would be just fun to see who manages to do that. The player can also avoid death a lot easier than the AI can, so a death chance in battle for us too would be desirable, for me at least (can give it as an option, for example as part of Ironman mode, along with autosave for no save-scumming temptation - this would promote a path to more immersive gameplay)

 

[Bluko88]

I love death in game. We need more of it. I particularly enjoyed it when they turned the frequency up while testing.

What they need is a replacement mechanism that keeps up with deaths. Turning wanderers into lords would help. A few more teenagers at game start would too.

The frequency isn't the problem so much for me, as I'm glad there are some real consequences for battle. (Though admittedly how Characters die in battle should be less random chance, and more deliberate action/consequence i.e. taking a lot of damage or being headshot.) But the current state of the game isn't equipped to handle this much death. Companions just barely spawn enough to keep up a good Clan roster for your needs (though this makes Companions seem even more lifeless, since you know they are utterly disposable).

As far as I know the only way for new Clans to come into existence is through Rebellions. But Rebellions aren't that common and the new Clans rarely survive. If there were other ways for Clans to come into existence then the current death rate would be okay. But as is the Player now is literally the harbinger of death for Calradia.

The thing is if they (and I'm sure TW knows this) had A.I. simulated battles with the same death rate, there would be virtually no Lords or Clans left after 30 years in-game.

So yes the Death Rate needs to be lowered, at least until TW can be bothered to actively develop said system.