Please, don't break what's working

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Wulfsdottir

Sergeant
First of all, I'm thankful for the great game and that the work on it keeps going, though maybe too slowly for most player's tastes but we do appreciate the effort and see that the devs WANT this game to be good.

This being said, I want to point out the common problem that often takes place when you want to improve something too much, rush into it, try the things that are easiest to fix first and because of rushing break the things that were perfectly working. This happens in many jobs, work processes and projects.

The one clear example of this is the quest where you had to track down X amount of bandits on behalf of notable.

The quest was perfectly doable until the recent patch. It had notable asking you to hunt down the bandits in vicinity of the town and the "vicinity" was about 1 day distance perimeter around the town. When the bandit group came into this perimeter they god disclaimer on their head and if you caught them with that disclaimer and eliminated them, that was +1 to your count.

Now, to not make this only the early game quest, it had neat feature where bandit group with disclaimer would act differently from regular group. It was running from your group only for some time and then stop or even approach itself to your group. So even if you had large army which is always slower then 6-7 men group, you still had the chance to catch them all, so you had fair chances. You also had the chances to fail, as sometimes the groups you would need to hunt would be large amount and you'd have to go past the perimeter and herd the bandits into close vicinity, to make them "disclaimed".

Now they changed it completely. The "vicinity" of town is so small now, that you're unable to catch them before they go out and in the case of steppe bandits or desert bandits, it's even harder, to the point of almost impossible to catch them all. You can still try to herd them in, but the area for catching them is now so small that they go out of it almost instantly until you catch them and then they start to behave like normal bandits, running away and catching steppe bandits is almost impossible task. You can still do it if the number given is 2 or 3 groups, but 8?

That now makes me forget about this quest and add it to the long list of quests that I never do (because most of them give too much negative effect even if giving positive too, and now in addition because some of them seems to be impossible to do).

So now we have bunch of quests that are simply there but not appealing at all for most players to care about them. And instead of correcting some other quests or add some new ones, you took the easiest one to "fix" and broke it.

This thread is NOT exclusively about this quest though. It is simply an example. We can live without this quest, but please, please, please, just concentrate what's BROKEN for now.

Best regards and best wishes :* And thanks for great game.

p.s. And sorry for the long post.
 
I don't know why that quest needs to have a vicinity requirement at all. Sometimes there just aren't any of the right bandits in the area. Just have it be "Kill X number of X bandits and be done with it.
 
I don't know why that quest needs to have a vicinity requirement at all. Sometimes there just aren't any of the right bandits in the area. Just have it be "Kill X number of X bandits and be done with it.
I think vicinity adds that little extra flavor that distinguishes it from other "kill X number Y" - by making you sometimes herd them in. You need to use tactics, be somewhat smart and cheat them into direction you want. It's alright mechanic for me... But the way they did it now, they just made it almost impossible.
 
I think vicinity adds that little extra flavor that distinguishes it from other "kill X number Y" - by making you sometimes herd them in. You need to use tactics, be somewhat smart and cheat them into direction you want. It's alright mechanic for me... But the way they did it now, they just made it almost impossible.
It certainly adds a flavor, but not a good one. I suppose it would be alright with a much wider vicinity, but even 1-day's ride is a pretty small area.

Another annoying quest requirement is the 3-day wait for the Rival Gang quest. Why make the player hang around the area doing nothing for 3 days? Just going over to the next town risks failing the quest because once the gangleader is ready, you've got no time to get back for the fight. I'd actually do that quest a lot more often because the fight's actually kind of fun, but I don't want to wait around town for 3 days.
 
I think a really good idea would be for bandits or looters to have an attached fief in general and it would make this kind of quest make sense, rather then a arbitrary limit that doesn't work, "catch 3 bandits of praven" and you do it even if they're ran away.
Although as soon as I think that I un-think it because that's probably too complicated and there's a hundred other things they need to do.
But to add even more there should be a reason for the bandits spawning (and a way to limit it) attached to the are they spawn it.
I played a good warband mod called lords of calradia that had a prosperity and population system for all the fiefs and if they weren't doing well it would spwan "deserters of _______" bandit parties. Of course the world was overun with them constantly..... JUST LIKE BANNERLORD...... but here it made sense and had possible solution if they player actually gained control of the fiefs and put time into helping them......un-like bannerlord where bandits are just grimlins in a swimming pool forever no matter what you do. What's sad is there probably is some system to bandit populations in bannerlord, it's just completely broken and completely incomprehensible to the player.

But yeah I agree 100% fix problems, Add NEEDED content, leave functional things alone PLEASE.
 
It certainly adds a flavor, but not a good one. I suppose it would be alright with a much wider vicinity, but even 1-day's ride is a pretty small area.

Another annoying quest requirement is the 3-day wait for the Rival Gang quest. Why make the player hang around the area doing nothing for 3 days? Just going over to the next town risks failing the quest because once the gangleader is ready, you've got no time to get back for the fight. I'd actually do that quest a lot more often because the fight's actually kind of fun, but I don't want to wait around town for 3 days.
Yeah, the quest is built in a way that prevents player from playing. That's just not right. Also there are two many quests that while give you positive effect, also give you the negative one NO MATTER what you do. You gain reputation with one gang and lose with the other.

Wouldn't it be better if we could have option to solve the problem in such a way, as to make both parties more or less satisfied? Maybe it should take big amount of charm, or leadership, or some other skill involved (making the choice of skills to upgrade more meaningful too, as some will be good for one type of quests, others, for others).

Take for example Family Feud quest. You gain reputation with one notable and inevitably lose with other, why? You just CONVINCED them that bloodshed isn't answer. Why does it penalize you? Now, maybe there should be few ways to convince: a) talking sense into character through wise words and/or charm b) threatening c) something else... Now that could justify different kind of rewards/penalties too.

But it just looks like TW just won't do anything that adds a step in anything. They always go as short of the way as possible when it comes to quests. Almost looks like they lack imagination or something.

I think a really good idea would be for bandits or looters to have an attached fief in general and it would make this kind of quest make sense, rather then a arbitrary limit that doesn't work, "catch 3 bandits of praven" and you do it even if they're ran away.
Although as soon as I think that I un-think it because that's probably too complicated and there's a hundred other things they need to do.
But to add even more there should be a reason for the bandits spawning (and a way to limit it) attached to the are they spawn it.
I played a good warband mod called lords of calradia that had a prosperity and population system for all the fiefs and if they weren't doing well it would spwan "deserters of _______" bandit parties. Of course the world was overun with them constantly..... JUST LIKE BANNERLORD...... but here it made sense and had possible solution if they player actually gained control of the fiefs and put time into helping them......un-like bannerlord where bandits are just grimlins in a swimming pool forever no matter what you do. What's sad is there probably is some system to bandit populations in bannerlord, it's just completely broken and completely incomprehensible to the player.

But yeah I agree 100% fix problems, Add NEEDED content, leave functional things alone PLEASE.
Yes, as said above, there are many arguable decisions in how the quests are structured, but the most important thing is what you wrote in last line: JUST LEAVE ALONE WHAT WORKS for now.
 
In 1.4.1 or 1.4.2?

At any rate, just drop a bug report. Those get prompt replies and actioned while threads here mostly seem unremarked upon.
1.4.2. But it's not a bug. It's just how they changed the quest. They just vastly shortened the distance from town where groups get the mark
 
hat's just not right. Also there are two many quests that while give you positive effect, also give you the negative one NO MATTER what you do.
I think it really weird that if you do the find the daughter quest and kill the dude you gain positive and don't lose any?
Is that working as intended or am I missing something? I've done it a few times now (same guy missing 3 daughters....) and only seen positive changes.
 
I think it really weird that if you do the find the daughter quest and kill the dude you gain positive and don't lose any?
Is that working as intended or am I missing something? I've done it a few times now (same guy missing 3 daughters....) and only seen positive changes.
No, that quest is built kinda properly (if you don't take into account that crazy misrepresented % chances in dialogues). You gain positive points with the father clan BUT you are penalized by taking negative trait points (cruel or devious, I don't remember. Probably cruel as it's more logical).
 
You can still report it in the "Balance" section.
Maybe will do if I find where it is. Thanks for suggestion :smile:
But in the same time, this thread is not just about this particular quest. Just a generalization on how easy it is to break something while concentrating on wrong things during the work.
 
Agree with your comment about quests that give some negative and some positive relations. I can't speak for all gamers, but I feel like most of us are ignoring those quests because losing relation when you're at 0 will permanently screw you out of getting quests from that NPC.

It should be possible through doing the quest properly to end with a solution that makes everyone happy. Especially if your character has high charm skill, i mean that's what it's there for right?
 
Agree with your comment about quests that give some negative and some positive relations. I can't speak for all gamers, but I feel like most of us are ignoring those quests because losing relation when you're at 0 will permanently screw you out of getting quests from that NPC.

It should be possible through doing the quest properly to end with a solution that makes everyone happy. Especially if your character has high charm skill, i mean that's what it's there for right?
Exactly
 
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