• If you are reporting a bug, please head over to our Technical Support section for Bannerlord.
  • Please note that we've updated the Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord save file system which requires you to take certain steps in order for your save files to be compatible with e1.7.1 and any later updates. You can find the instructions here.

Please change the price of archers and mount archers in team Deathmatch and Siege mode

Users who are viewing this thread

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
I'm a bit concerned about how the 2H classes will be nerfed. To my knowledge, 2H weapons are as fast as they are to compensate for not having the autoblocking attached to shields, and i feel like nerfing 2H weapons despite this fact would make it so that there's no reason to use 2H weapons at all if 1h weapons are just as fast.

I do agree that horse archers need to have their price increased, since it's far less expensive to spawn as a Horse Archer with Tougher Horse/Small Shield and hope you find a one-handed spear off a corpse if you really wanna charge and stab.

As for archers being spammed to death in online games, I recall suggesting the implementation of Super Armor for mounted units whenever they take ranged weapon damage while in the middle of a melee swing/thrust.

I think if such a thing was implemented specifically to counter archers, this would either force them to either land headshots or play a pikeman instead.
You wont see many 2h weapon speed changes. Instead the combat movement speed of the classes has been reduced and the general damage reduction from most of their perks has been removed. Also some damages will be looked at. Overall this class greatly overperforms in regards to their price point.
 

沫黎悠夕

Recruit
I disagree shock is situational. You go only 1 if you are afraid of archer, and could slowly wind up having all inf respawn as shock during the game
I'm not afraid of archers, it's just that the low price of archers sometimes makes a game full of archers, which makes the game very boring. On EA servers there is a situation where one side of the game has players who like to play infantry, but the other side is full of archers and mounted archers, who don't fight you, they run whenever they see you, and the whole game is just running and chasing and chasing and there is nothing to play
 

Mushbeast

Knight at Arms
I could get down with this, though as always I think a better spawning system (for TDM) would be a better fix to the issue. Archers have it too easy when they spawn behind you half the time and can take you out the second they spawn.

If there was a bit more structure to the spawning system you could have proper counter-plays to archers rather than the current game of cat and mouse where you'll chase an archer only for him or his mate to respawn behind and cap you. Gets quite frustrating in my experience.

Finally, maybe some sort of javelin with a perk that specifically slows the target down after being hit for a few seconds, allowing the unit to close ground and catch up could help with the endless kiting.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
I could get down with this, though as always I think a better spawning system (for TDM) would be a better fix to the issue. Archers have it too easy when they spawn behind you half the time and can take you out the second they spawn.
I don't even know why TDM has its own set of maps. I think the more productive thing that could've been done is if it used the same maps/spawns as Skirmish
 

Mushbeast

Knight at Arms
I'm sure the maps from Skirmish would work fine in TDM, and would be a good injection of content to place Skirmish maps into the TDM pool. If I remember right, there's a bit of a challenge with using the exact Skirmish spawns as people would end up camping the spawn points, but these are issues have been solved a billion times by other games on the market, so I'm sure they can come up with a better system than is currently in place.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'm sure the maps from Skirmish would work fine in TDM, and would be a good injection of content to place Skirmish maps into the TDM pool. If I remember right, there's a bit of a challenge with using the exact Skirmish spawns as people would end up camping the spawn points, but these are issues have been solved a billion times by other games on the market, so I'm sure they can come up with a better system than is currently in place.
Very easy solution for this. Don't make the campable in the first place. I don't even know what the logic is supposed to be. Some maps have such spawns, others do not. Going for spawn kills is not really that big of a problem except for Port. Just allows people to wait in spawn and waste everyone's time while we have to go back to flag, and wait 40 sec.
 

Mushbeast

Knight at Arms
Very easy solution for this. Don't make the campable in the first place. I don't even know what the logic is supposed to be. Some maps have such spawns, others do not. Going for spawn kills is not really that big of a problem except for Port. Just allows people to wait in spawn and waste everyone's time while we have to go back to flag, and wait 40 sec.
That's true, some maps have a spawn building that has no entrance only exits to help solve this issue.

For TDM, the best choice in my eyes would be to have set spawn points, but have them rotate around the map either based on time or whether the position is overrun with enemies. This will keep the games dynamic but still have the team spawn together in order to keep the match cohesive and structured.
 
Last edited:
It has nothing to do with maneuverability and everything to do with better players.
i disagree;

combat is very much about maneuverability

in warband you can almost beat anything with a light inf with a shield,

first you wait out the cav and archer's ammo then eventually take on the infantry one at a time (starting with the quickest)

but now with the shield slowing you down you cannot really do that anymore

you have to drop your shield to be the fastest or risk getting surrounded by infantry(thus getting shot or couched by cavalry)

this has transformed the core of the game to be more focused on the importance of archers and cavalry which in my opinion undermines the core melee combat of the game which makes the series so great

it is sad bc i do not entirely disagree that shields shouldn't slow you down, but what it has done to the overall game balance has lead to a less melee orientated experience

perhaps if arrows did less damage to heavy armor and cavalry couched lance were able to be blocked we could see some improvement;

however in the current state of the game i think i would rather play the napoleonic warfare mod bc ironically there seems to be less ranged kiting(due to the slow speed of reloading and the general inaccuracy of the musket(which bows should be similarly little less accurate as well bc mouse aiming a bow is too unrealistically accurate)) and horse kiting(i like the role cavalry has in napoleonic warfare of being less tanky which leaves the infantry to mainly engage with other infantry) and the lack of shields make every strike interesting to land/block
 

FearSpear

Squire
this has transformed the core of the game to be more focused on the importance of archers and cavalry which in my opinion undermines the core melee combat of the game which makes the series so great
Did you even play Warband competitive? You don't know what you are talking about here. Archers as they are now in competitive skirmish have less impact than archers in competitive Warband battle. Sad!
 

FearSpear

Squire
why are they less impactful?
They do less damage in general, and fire more slowly. In addition to this, cav did not have heavy horse armor in Warband battle, and infantry in general had less armor.

At the beginning of Bannerlord early access, archers were obscenely powerful, but they have been nerfed into the ground to the point that they are a situational pick in skirmish games.
 
They do less damage in general, and fire more slowly. In addition to this, cav did not have heavy horse armor in Warband battle, and infantry in general had less armor.

At the beginning of Bannerlord early access, archers were obscenely powerful, but they have been nerfed into the ground to the point that they are a situational pick in skirmish games.
i have always argued that having arrows doing less damage to heavy armor(realistic armor penetration) would be a good thing,
although i think that arrows could do more damage to lightly armored/non armored targets

i think archers got an indirect buff by shields being heavier so less people would carry them in order to not be surrounded,

heavy cav being in every battle is certainly an anti-archer situation,i wouldn't mind heavy cav being removed from most combat situations bc it is very frustrating to play against(in warband being surrounded by cav and infantry wasn't a death sentence bc weapons like the spear were both anti cav and anti inf), in warband i actually could afford heavy cav a couple times; that should be the frequency you see them imo they should be unaffordable to 95% of players

i think that the movement speed penalty for archers need to be removed(and dismounted cavalry), the movement speed penalty should be attached to the quiver so that people cannot kite but at the same time archers could drop their bow/quiver and fight with the same movement speed as infantry

this way archers would be a hard counter to unarmored cavalry and lightly armored infantry but be vulnerable to heavy inf/cav

my ideal situation is: light inf beats heavy inf (when able to surround/kite them) archers beat light inf/cav and heavy inf/cav beat archers

what do you think needs to be done to balance archers?
 
Last edited:

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
i have always argued that having arrows doing less damage to heavy armor(realistic armor penetration) would be a good thing,
although i think that arrows could do more damage to lightly armored/non armored targets

i think archers got an indirect buff by shields being heavier so less people would carry them in order to not be surrounded,

heavy cav being in every battle is certainly an anti-archer situation,i wouldn't mind heavy cav being removed from most combat situations bc it is very frustrating to play against(in warband being surrounded by cav and infantry wasn't a death sentence bc weapons like the spear were both anti cav and anti inf), in warband i actually could afford heavy cav a couple times; that should be the frequency you see them imo they should be unaffordable to 95% of players

i think that the movement speed penalty for archers need to be removed(and dismounted cavalry), the movement speed penalty should be attached to the quiver so that people cannot kite but at the same time archers could drop their bow/quiver and fight with the same movement speed as infantry

this way archers would be a hard counter to unarmored cavalry and lightly armored infantry but be vulnerable to heavy inf/cav

my ideal situation is: light inf beats heavy inf (when able to surround/kite them) archers beat light inf/cav and heavy inf/cav beat archers

what do you think needs to be done to balance archers?
Light archers already got nerfed pretty much, the archer of sturgia is basically useless and the ranger from battannia is even worse.
Archers are fine atm
 

FearSpear

Squire
what do you think needs to be done to balance archers?
Your problem with the archer seems to come from archer spam ruining siege/deathmatch... A simple solution to this would be class limits based on server population for those classes. Archer is balanced or even a little underpowered right now in competitive skirmish.
 
Light archers already got nerfed pretty much, the archer of sturgia is basically useless and the ranger from battannia is even worse.
Archers are fine atm
Your problem with the archer seems to come from archer spam ruining siege/deathmatch... A simple solution to this would be class limits based on server population for those classes. Archer is balanced or even a little underpowered right now in competitive skirmish.

do you think that the speed penalty for achers should be removed(the speed penalty should be just on the quiver/bow)?

i really would like to play the archer class but do not like the movement penalty making me very vulnerable to being surrounded by inf;

i think all movement speed should be affected by weight only (or weapon awkwardness like holding quivers or a long pike)

do you think this is a good idea? (also i dont really care about deathmatch/seige i am only looking out for the eventual battle mode that will come out; the 1 life mode)
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
do you think that the speed penalty for achers should be removed(the speed penalty should be just on the quiver/bow)?

i really would like to play the archer class but do not like the movement penalty making me very vulnerable to being surrounded by inf;

i think all movement speed should be affected by weight only (or weapon awkwardness like holding quivers or a long pike)

do you think this is a good idea? (also i dont really care about deathmatch/seige i am only looking out for the eventual battle mode that will come out; the 1 life mode)
Nah it's good that archer have a speed penalty, chasing archers is one of things that make infantry afwul to play. If infantry take the extra movement perk then they are quite a bit quicker than archers, just make sure you are not in a position you can get pushed.

In battle mode it's the same really, get infantry to protect your archers or just have a good enough distance. Also don't forget that heavy archers are quite strong in melee, Fian has a 2h sword, Khans guard has a glaive, Veteran can have a shield or very decent sword, Xbows are just very strong.

I do think Sturgia archer should get a buff, as the only option for sturgia is currently inf + cav which is just boring. The archer should atleast be viable. Same kinda goes for the Ranger, it has **** damage and the worst melee weapon but it is part of an archer faction which doesn't make sense.

Also reducing heavy archer damage on heavy armor makes it easier to ignore archers and prolongs fights, heavy archer damage is fine as it is right now. The movement penalty already negates this.
 
Nah it's good that archer have a speed penalty, chasing archers is one of things that make infantry afwul to play. If infantry take the extra movement perk then they are quite a bit quicker than archers, just make sure you are not in a position you can get pushed.
i believe that bannerlord shouldnt have unrealistic penalties and other mechanics to try to affect combat,

chasing archers is annoying but running with a quiver full of arrows would slow you down enough that most infantry could catch up with you if you do not discard your ranged items
and people should not be unrealistically punished for trying to be an archer (so basically the best archers in the game are infantry that picked up an archers bow bc they do not the movement penalty so they can still survive in melee combat situations)

the mount and blade series originally didnt have the reduced movement speed penalty on archers but it was later added on during multiplayer testing bc archers would endlessly kite infantry and it was frustrating to play against(so i heard)

i believe that introduction of the movement penalty was a shortsighted mistake

the right decision ,in my opinion, is to have more accurate movement penalties on the items you carry so at anytime you can discard the weapons that were slowing you down in order to survive by increasing your movement speed


Also reducing heavy archer damage on heavy armor makes it easier to ignore archers and prolongs fights, heavy archer damage is fine as it is right now. The movement penalty already negates this.

i believe that the heaviest armor in the game should negate more damage from arrows then it does currently,

crossbows are meant to penetrate heavy armor so i do not have an issue with that bc it is realistic

however arrows do not penetrate heavy armor as well as bolts from a crossbow so it should do less damage then it does currently in bannerlord

i think this unrealistic armor penetration is bad for the combat mechanics of the game because it artificially boosts the importance of arrows in the game (it is not played more often bc the movement penalty that archers have makes melee combat impossible against multiple opponents due to being surrounded)

it seems that the game gives arrows an unrealistic arrow penetration mechanic and then tries to balance it by having a unrealistic movement penalty against the archer class to compensate

i think all these artificial mechanics of the game (damage boosters, movement penalties, etc) should be removed and only logical mechanics (movement based on weight or weapon awkwardness etc) should remain

@Horatius
i am not saying your wrong, maybe my changes would make the game very annoying to play; i just want to try the game without all of these artificial changes which could make the combat feel alot better

but the developers have put so much time into this arcady system so i would imagine it would be too much of a change for them to implement into bannerlord

i just hope that a custom server will try to implement a more realistic combat system instead

thank you for replying
 
Top Bottom