Playing as a small warband (clan tier1-ish) feels really bad

[durbal]

As a smallish clan you have no real gameplay options and playing as one feels bad. Your gameplay largely consists of getting recruits and farming looters for XP because you can't do much else. (To make matters worse, the larger your party is the slower it tends to get so you end up having to chase looters at a slower and slower and slower pace as you grow.) Everyone else has 80-man parties so the only thing you can do is join a larger army and have the lord randomly suicide the small army you painstakingly built up into the enemy, only for you to have to start all over.

There needs to be more to do for smaller clans and warbands. Bandits would be a thing if hideouts a) weren't so poorly designed as piecemeal slaughterhouses and b) killing bandits actually did something for the world state like freeing up trade routes or at least not make it simply a riskier version of farming looters. Quests? No thanks. Better off doing most of them solo since they rarely involve a party, and when they do (like the deserter or caravan quest) you'll probably get slaughtered and, again, have to rebuild your army.

Maybe more minor characters or clans belonging to factions would help so you'd be able to encounter smaller warbands to fight. I'm not sure how this would help though if they all just join armies when they're formed.

That brings us to simply raiding villages and slaughtering villagers which puts you pretty decidedly on the 'bandit'-ish path. Attack a village? -6 relation. Flee from an enemy army while it passes and attack it again? -6 again. Maybe if you want to go full 'screw it, scorched earth' like a bandito then this wouldn't matter, but part of the big issue is castles changing hands back and forth again and again. You'll likely be raiding a village that was once part of your faction, so when it gets retaken good luck recruiting from there or doing other quests.

So on we go, slaughtering looters until eventually we can play the game. There has to be another way.

 

[Mppqlmd]

I have to say, i don't recruit (more than 5 men to act as my body guards and carry my stuff) until i reach clan lvl 2. Before that i'm questing/tourneying, it feels much better.

I try to level up to lvl 10-15 before having an army, as i don't like my soldiers being much higher level than i am.

 

[Swadianborn]

Declare war on a faction when you are powerful enough. And trade to gain money.

 

[durbal]

I have to say, i don't recruit (more than 5 men to act as my body guards and carry my stuff) until i reach clan lvl 2. Before that i'm questing/tourneying, it feels much better.

I try to level up to lvl 10-15 before having an army, as i don't like my soldiers being much higher level than i am.

Yeah, this is the problem. It feels like that's your only real option. Even then, when you finally do decide to start actually playing the game you still need to go around powerfarming recruits on looters.

Declare war on a faction when you are powerful enough. And trade to gain money.

I'm not sure you read my post.

 

[Demoulius]

Yeah the early game is pretty rough. But once you become a merc or a vassal it often becomes ALOT easier and alot of the game suddenly opens up. Its so amazing not having to worry about wages once you got a steady income flowing

 

[SmattlePattle]

Early game needs a lot more content. More interactive ambient life in cities & towns, more quests that tie in with the latter, options to play as a bandit, more meaningful mercenary play (and troop enlist - freelancer style?), fun caravan defense battle scenes and proper options to enlist as a caravan guard, I could go on. The more there is to do early game the more meaningful it feels when (or if) you graduate into being a vassal and perhaps even rising to rule.

 

[vicwiz007]

I have to agree. The worst stage imo is when youve got like 30 troops and youre too weak to help in wars but too powerful to farm looters or quest. There is a distinct lack of parties to fight around that size.

I recall a quest from Gamescom builds which saw the player joining militia to go defend a caravan under attack. Activities like that would be great for low-mid size player parties. Not sure why it was removed.

 

[durbal]

I think bandits as a source of troops is really cool since it allows you to build an army from prisoners and fight with and against different unit types. The problem is that hideouts are so poorly implemented and they feel completely disconnected from the main game -- they're some sort of sadistic minigame instead.

I actually had a ton of fun in my last playthrough building up my army from bandits since I found a few hideouts I could whittle away at. It felt nice to have a cool mix of units -- and units that actually upgraded no less -- without having to farm levels on looters. Capturing a Highwayman for example felt really nice. Upgrading a Sea Raider into a Sea Raider King was cool. The fact that bandit units are actually strong and can be a mainstay in an actual army is nice too. Oh, and they improve your relations with nearby characters when you finally take down a hideout! Unfortunately, they're hideouts. The idea that someone had about a mini-siege was nice since it allows you to utilize that aspect of gameplay and train those other skills too.

I don't want to make this another hideout thread, but I thought I'd at least mention how if they were reworked we'd be able to see more early game content besides hoboslaying.

 

[durbal]

I recall a quest from Gamescom builds which saw the player joining militia to go defend a caravan under attack. Activities like that would be great for low-mid size player parties. Not sure why it was removed.

Yeah, some of the quests like the defend caravan quest could be good for this. Unfortunately the first time I did it I randomly had 35 Forest Bandits spawn on top of it and I never did it again. The deserter quest was similar. Cool! I get to defend a village. Oops, here comes 20 ranged troops, a handful of cavalry, and some infantry all rushing my party of 20ish men. No thanks.

 

[R4MPZY]

The first companion you recruit should be a scout, and that coupled with horses in your inventory more then makes up for size in speed. I am currently 250 in party size and i am still much faster then any bandit group, even steppe bandits.

 

[durbal]

The first companion you recruit should be a scout, and that coupled with horses in your inventory more then makes up for size in speed. I am currently 250 in party size and i am still much faster then any bandit group, even steppe bandits.

Scouts don't help much with speed.

And unless you have 250 cavalry and a jet engine or two you are not catching steppe bandits.

Besides, speed is not the problem here. The problem is the lack of viable content for small warbands.

 

[Demoulius]

I rather like the 'escort the caravan' quest myself. It can be tough if you came unprepapred but the reward is VERY good and if you have even a half decent warband the ambushers shouldnt pose much of a problem!

 

[durbal]

I rather like the 'escort the caravan' quest myself. It can be tough if you came unprepapred but the reward is VERY good and if you have even a half decent warband the ambushers shouldnt pose much of a problem!

The issue I have with it (and with the deserter quest) is the fact that it tells you nothing about what you're up against. It seems like it rolls a die and you randomly just get wiped. It's not a matter of it being a hard fought battle or anything -- you just die. Your small warband of 10 T2-3 infantry, a handful of cavalry, and 10ish ranged troops will not win when it decides to spawn 35 Forest Bandits on top of you without warning. If I could take on 35 Forest Bandits I wouldn't be in the small warband stage and I'd probably not be escorting a caravan to begin with.

I think another big help with the small warband stage would be for quest to actually tell you what you're likely to be up against. Instead, it seems to do almost the opposite. Hey, you can assign a companion and 8 men for a week. Cool, but I want my companion to stay with me. I think I'll do the quest myself. HAHAHAHAHA how silly of you. Your companion with 8 men might be able to do it in a week but when you do it yourself you'll face off against an enemy three times that size and it will wipe your party in a minute.

 

[Demoulius]

Ive been doing fine with like 30-35 man groups for those quests. Also ran into forest bandits myself but me and the few (like 4 or 5) cav that I had bumrushed them buying time for my infantry to haul ass and deck them. But maybe I was just lucky? The map that I played on basicly allowed me to walk up to them without to much of a fuss. But I can understand that 35 forest bandits give people problems to be honest... I think that same battle on an open field wouldnt have gone very well for me.... Also ran into a group of mostly cavalry. On an open field. That one was alot more of a nailbiter.

It helped me that I was expecting for something like that to happen though was kind of the reason why I wanted to do that mission if im perfectly honest. I was tired of hunting looters, lol.

 

[durbal]

Ive been doing fine with like 30-35 man groups for those quests. Also ran into forest bandits myself but me and the few (like 4 or 5) cav that I had bumrushed them buying time for my infantry to haul ass and deck them. But maybe I was just lucky? The map that I played on basicly allowed me to walk up to them without to much of a fuss. But I can understand that 35 forest bandits give people problems to be honest... I think that same battle on an open field wouldnt have gone very well for me.... Also ran into a group of mostly cavalry. On an open field. That one was alot more of a nailbiter.

It helped me that I was expecting for something like that to happen though was kind of the reason why I wanted to do that mission if im perfectly honest. I was tired of hunting looters, lol.

Are you playing on realistic? I mean, I've taken down large groups of forest bandits before with smallish groups but even bumrushing them point blank with 30 T2-T3 infantry will likely end up in a lot of carnage that isn't worth it. Money can't buy good troops.

 

[VanHoven]

While I agree that some more stuff to do in the early game would be nice, I dont feel that it's bringing the game down too much. I would rather like them to allocate more time to fleshing out medium and end game content, since thats where you spend most of your time. I usually go around trading until I have my first workshop set up, by then I'mclose to Clan Tier 2 and can join a faction as a merc, which I usually do. I dont join bigger armies since as OP stated my precious troops will get used as fodder, but i follow them around and catch smaller enemy parties around my size to get some decent influence and renown income until i hit clan rank 3. After joining as a vassal it doesnt take long for me to get my first fief and then the early game is done... takes around 2-4 hours on average.

 

[Wehrwolfzug]

Use a 10 man squad for the first bit. Go to areas of the map the AI is fighting over to find the lords/leaders to question. Get a horse in your inventory for every soldier you have, this will get your speed up on the map. Sumpters are pack mules, they only help increase items loads. Then become a mercenary, and jumping in on battles the ai started. Soon you will have more money than you will know what to do with.

 

[durbal]

Use a 10 man squad for the first bit. Go to areas of the map the AI is fighting over to find the lords/leaders to question. Get a horse in your inventory for every soldier you have, this will get your speed up on the map. Sumpters are pack mules, they only help increase items loads. Then become a mercenary, and jumping in on battles the ai started. Soon you will have more money than you will know what to do with.

I'm not really looking for a noob guide though -- I'm saying building up an army sucks. I don't savescum, I play on realistic across the board and I do sometimes lose tough or overambitious battles, so that often sets me back to square one. And square one sucks. The best thing to do is just farm looters until you're up to strength again and this feels like crap because it is zero challenge and has zero impact on the world. Losing a battle, losing your army, and having to run around from town to town buying horses, gathering recruits, and chasing down looters while a war goes on all around you just feels really bad.

 

[luisedgm]

Mercenary work on early game is quite fun

 

[Bob Gnarly]

I agree more content is needed, I'm sure it's in the works.

I usually build my units up gradually so I'm not recruiting a whole bunch of raw recruits and trying to power level them at once.

Right now at the small warband stage you can join a faction as a merc and start taking on caravans, other merc groups, join the army and fight in large battles or follow them around picking off any scraps.