Players trying to "win" that draw!!! (IMPORTANT)

Currently viewing this thread:

Arcas Nebun

Section Moderator
M&BWB
Best answers
0
  In the match between DFD and SRT, a problem appeared in one round when one player (cavalry) ran away from like 3 other (including another cav) until he obtained a draw. He didn't even try to fight them (I had footage but its all screwed up). This is the point of this disscussion, so we can avoid these stupid situations in the future.
  Current rule states that a player can run away to obtain a draw, but he isn't allowed to hide in a corner of the map. This seem incomplete, in my oppinion. My reasons for the previous affirmation are:
1) A player can run away easly and get the draw if mounted, even if he is up against the whole other team.
2) It is very easy on some maps to hide (e.g. Village) and just wait for the draw.
  Okay now. In my oppinion, running away like that is unfair/unsportsmanlike. Same with the hiding and waiting. We can just appeal to the teams common sense and tell them to just attack and try their luck. BUT, what happens if one team is one round away of losing. What if they keep a guy somewhere and if they lose, he runs/hides and does that forever (if they manage to avoid MotF, that is).
  Please disscuss!

EDIT: I propose a simple solution: MAKE THE DRAWS COUNT!
 

BaldRider

Sergeant Knight
Best answers
0
The problem is that some spawns on the maps are more favorable than the other, so the team who starts with the better spawn could win 5 games and then play very defensive for draws the next 5 rounds when they have an inferior spawn.
This was a large problem in the Nations Cup, talking out of a commanders perspective.
I'd suggest a rule where a team wins if they have three times the other teams survivors alive, ie; 1vs3  2vs6  3vs9.
And if not, let it be a draw and replay it.
 

SCGavin

Baron
Best answers
0
I agree that it is unsportsmanlike, but I don't think it's a big problem. That is if 1) is the case. Both teams can do it and it would be a reaction to e.g. being outnumbered (i.e. a tactical decision). It isn't the nicest tactic, but I don't think it's wrong either. It doesn't abuse any game-mechanics and it doesn't give them an unfair advantage. After all the round will result in a draw, not in a win for the fleeing players/team. If the better clan is supposed to win, then replaying draws shouldn't be a problem, as the better clan has to prove that they are indeed better. If they are better, then winning the replay-round of a draw shouln't be a problem.
This tactic is similar to waiting for the flags or archerspam in my opinion: Not the most sportsmanlike tactic, but still a legit one.

Hiding from the beginning of a match as assurance like described in 2) (as I understood it) is something else however and should be forbidden. Im not sure how this could be stopped though, as some players might be not moving for other reasons (holding a tactical position with the goal of eventually fighting the enemy).
 

Arcas Nebun

Section Moderator
M&BWB
Best answers
0
BaldRider said:
The problem is that some spawns on the maps are more favorable than the other, so the team who starts with the better spawn could win 5 games and then play very defensive for draws the next 5 rounds when they have an inferior spawn.
This was a large problem in the Nations Cup, talking out of a commanders perspective.
I'd suggest a rule where a team wins if they have three times the other teams survivors alive, ie; 1vs3  2vs6  3vs9.
And if not, let it be a draw and replay it.
You're right and I won't take that away from you. I also realised that if the draws would count, then the winning team could do the same thing (wait for draw). But still, we just cannot ask for people to show sportsmanship (they won't anyway... winning is winning).

SCGavin said:
Hiding from the beginning of a match as assurance like described in 2) (as I understood it) is something else however and should be forbidden. Im not sure how this could be stopped though, as some players might be not moving for other reasons (holding a tactical position with the goal of eventually fighting the enemy).
I actually seen that once, in Village. It's just weird to see like 8 ppl looking for one guy who is hiding. I tryied to find him and see if he is camping but it just didn't work. (To the devs: increase speed of moving for spectators XD)
 

MaHuD

Section Moderator
WBM&BNWWF&SVC
Best answers
1
Well in CoR VS AB we had several draws caused by AB when we were clearly winning.
They also forced a draw by sending one guy to die to us. (No offense to AB just pointing out that it certainly IS something that needs to be looked at)

I don't think this tournament is about the best routing clan, or is it?
 

Garic93

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&S
Best answers
0
MaHuD said:
Well in CoR VS AB we had several draws caused by AB when we were clearly winning.
They also forced a draw by sending one guy to die to us. (No offense to AB just pointing out that it certainly IS something that needs to be looked at)

I don't think this tournament is about the best routing clan, or is it?
Yes but we were not escaping, we were camping as you were doing... Here they are talking about escaping, I suppose
 

Zoltanus

Master Knight
M&BWB
Best answers
0
BaldRider said:
I'd suggest a rule where a team wins if they have three times the other teams survivors alive, ie; 1vs3  2vs6  3vs9.
And if not, let it be a draw and replay it.
I'd suggest that team wins even if it has only 1 more player and draws would come only if both teams have equal amount of players.

If it would be possible flag spawn could be forced at 1:00 or 0:30 so that there wouldn't be situations where someone could just run around waiting for a draw. No idea though if this kind of forced flag spawn is possible.
 

Urist

Master Knight
M&BWB
Best answers
0
It can been easily done in the MS that the MotF flag spawns at a fixed time or it could be removed that opposing players delay the flag spawn when standing close to each other. However, it wouldn't be Native League then anymore.
 

Arcas Nebun

Section Moderator
M&BWB
Best answers
0
Garic93 said:
MaHuD said:
We were waiting for flag because you were camping :razz:
I think you were camping, staying on the roofs in Village :mrgreen: However we are OT :roll:
I think you should be serious people and stop f**king around with this topic. Just post your ideas; any unrelated post will be removed!
 

Imnotwhatiam

Knight
M&BWB
Best answers
0
I think that the referee should judge during the battle if a draw is to be counted, replayed or even assign victory to one of the teams.

It's simple to do (no modding, just a little modification on the tournament rules) but I know it will lead to other problems.

The referee will have a great impact on the battle result: depending on his opinion about camping or running, on his ability to take a good decision when other people try to influence him and on his honesty (I'm not charging anyone, but it's still a possibility) the battle result will change.
It 'll be impossible to play without the referee.
Clans will complain about referees.
 

MaHuD

Section Moderator
WBM&BNWWF&SVC
Best answers
1
Arcas Nebun said:
Garic93 said:
MaHuD said:
We were waiting for flag because you were camping :razz:
I think you were camping, staying on the roofs in Village :mrgreen: However we are OT :roll:
I think you should be serious people and stop f**king around with this topic. Just post your ideas; any unrelated post will be removed!
I am serious. You should know that since you were our Refferee...

+ I aggree with Imnotwhatiam.
 

Arcas Nebun

Section Moderator
M&BWB
Best answers
0
MaHuD said:
Arcas Nebun said:
Garic93 said:
MaHuD said:
We were waiting for flag because you were camping :razz:
I think you were camping, staying on the roofs in Village :mrgreen: However we are OT :roll:
I think you should be serious people and stop f**king around with this topic. Just post your ideas; any unrelated post will be removed!
I am serious. You should know that since you were our Refferee...

+ I aggree with Imnotwhatiam.
I know you are, Mahud. Just keep to the subject at hand :smile:.

@Imnotwhatiam Right now you just cannot entrust this kind of a decision to the referee. Especially now, because we do many mistakes (I know I do X_X).
 

Robis

Knight
WB
Best answers
0
Imnotwhatiam said:
I think that the referee should judge during the battle if a draw is to be counted, replayed or even assign victory to one of the teams.

It's simple to do (no modding, just a little modification on the tournament rules) but I know it will lead to other problems.

The referee will have a great impact on the battle result: depending on his opinion about camping or running, on his ability to take a good decision when other people try to influence him and on his honesty (I'm not charging anyone, but it's still a possibility) the battle result will change.
It 'll be impossible to play without the referee.
Clans will complain about referees.
It will become a subjective choice.
 

Mr.X

The thing is, if theres 1 cav v. 3 infantry at the beginning of the match, and the rest of the team is still alive, its fine for the cav to run away, BUT if its at the end of the match, its not fine?

I mean, personally, I've found situations in pub battle servers where I was the last one against several players left on the enemy team, and I've won through a combination of running away/hit and run. The running away makes the players not expect you to attack, and seperates them from their teammates when they try to follow you usually, which makes them easier to kill.

Now what if there is 1 infantry left, and 30 seconds left, and he's against 3 or 4 other infantry, and he just holds his huscarl shield up and runs away for 30 seconds to draw the round. Is that allowed?
It's all subjective.

I would say leave it to the referees to decide. The 3 man up rule is kinda lame because in 1 round, 1 person can kill more than 3 other enemies, and it happens often.
 

Arris

Veteran
WB
Best answers
0
Mr.X said:
The thing is, if theres 1 cav v. 3 infantry at the beginning of the match, and the rest of the team is still alive, its fine for the cav to run away, BUT if its at the end of the match, its not fine?

I mean, personally, I've found situations in pub battle servers where I was the last one against several players left on the enemy team, and I've won through a combination of running away/hit and run. The running away makes the players not expect you to attack, and seperates them from their teammates when they try to follow you usually, which makes them easier to kill.

Now what if there is 1 infantry left, and 30 seconds left, and he's against 3 or 4 other infantry, and he just holds his huscarl shield up and runs away for 30 seconds to draw the round. Is that allowed?
It's all subjective.

I would say leave it to the referees to decide. The 3 man up rule is kinda lame because in 1 round, 1 person can kill more than 3 other enemies, and it happens often.
Perhaps purposely running for draw should be treated as fleeing from battlefield. Two "armies" clash and the one who manages to crush or make enemy flee from battlefield wins the round. After all guy running for draw is not fighting and since time will end there won't be comeback like in so called "tactical retreats to trick enemy". I hope that you will understeand what I mean by that.
 

Arcas Nebun

Section Moderator
M&BWB
Best answers
0
Arris said:
Mr.X said:
The thing is, if theres 1 cav v. 3 infantry at the beginning of the match, and the rest of the team is still alive, its fine for the cav to run away, BUT if its at the end of the match, its not fine?

I mean, personally, I've found situations in pub battle servers where I was the last one against several players left on the enemy team, and I've won through a combination of running away/hit and run. The running away makes the players not expect you to attack, and seperates them from their teammates when they try to follow you usually, which makes them easier to kill.

Now what if there is 1 infantry left, and 30 seconds left, and he's against 3 or 4 other infantry, and he just holds his huscarl shield up and runs away for 30 seconds to draw the round. Is that allowed?
It's all subjective.

I would say leave it to the referees to decide. The 3 man up rule is kinda lame because in 1 round, 1 person can kill more than 3 other enemies, and it happens often.
Perhaps purposely running for draw should be treated as fleeing from battlefield. Two "armies" clash and the one who manages to crush or make enemy flee from battlefield wins the round. After all guy running for draw is not fighting and since time will end there won't be comeback like in so called "tactical retreats to trick enemy". I hope that you will understeand what I mean by that.
But what if he attacks randomly, so it seems he's fighting?
 

Arris

Veteran
WB
Best answers
0
Depends on what do you mean by that. If he is far from enemies it will clear when he is acting. If he is doing random attacks while he is quite close or almost in enemy range, well, to consider it an attack he would have to turn at least for a while to face the enemy so there is quite big chance to take him down, don't you think? If he would just run and randomly cut the air/grass/trees/nearby buildings you can easily qualify him as "unable to continue fight due of mind break" :razz: