Playerbase shrinking rapidly -10% in the last month

[Earth Dragon]

Yeah in retrospect I should have asked a proper question in my original post, but It was morso a quick rant about the state of development after being frustrated with how TW are handling the Custom servers thread in the MP forum. Id be satisfied with this thread getting locked if someone from Taleworlds can answer me one question:

Is there an transparent roadmap coming that clearly details what fixes and new features we will see by full release with clear explanations for why they they will/ wont be in the full release. Specifically the custom servers from the MP section and as for Singleplayer other users could suggest the main topics they want to be addressed.

If there isnt one coming... why?

There is a pinned post going over the fall updates. You just have to open it up

why we will have ones that arent being requested

And this statement puts you in the entitled category. Needed a full explanation when getting a feature YOU didn’t ask for is absurd. You didn’t buy stock in the company. You paid to play the game. And asking for a refund on a game you’ve played/been sitting on for months is just petty and immature

 

[Koyaan]

There is a pinned post going over the fall updates. You just have to open it up

''transparent roadmap coming that clearly details what fixes and new features we will see by full release with clear explanations for why they they will/ wont be in the full release''

 

[Younes]

And this statement puts you in the entitled category. Needed a full explanation when getting a feature YOU didn’t ask for is absurd. You didn’t buy stock in the company. You paid to play the game. And asking for a refund on a game you’ve played/been sitting on for months is just petty and immature

I don't think you understand what a roadmap is, versus what a statement is.

 

[Earth Dragon]

I don't think you understand what a roadmap is, versus what a statement is.

I understand what one is, but I also feel if this was a requirement for your purchase, you should have waited for one to be posted

But there are also accusations of no outreach, when there are things there

 

[Cochus1]

I don't play since months and it doesn't mean I don't like the game or I think they are doing wrong. It's just because the game is still in development and I prefere wait to have a more polished version instead getting bored of the game too early

 

[Younes]

I understand what one is, but I also feel if this was a requirement for your purchase, you should have waited for one to be posted

But there are also accusations of no outreach, when there are things there

When you pay money for an early access title, you put your faith in the company to deliver. Asking for communication/transparency isn't being entitled or self-centered, it's a way of telling the people who bought the game in the state that they can still put their faith in the company.

It always shows the company has a clear direction and objectives/milestones, which in Taleworlds case, seems to be the complete opposite. So it wouldn't surprise me the reason they didn't do a roadmap, is because they just do with what they have along the way

 

[Orion]

Not to be a downer but most of us have also been here quite awhile and have different accomplishments. Doesn't mean anything, especially considering the underlying elitism that Warband was infamous for.

Actions > Past merit = Mexxico > Callum.

If he doesn't post and respond to people on these forums his claims of the past means nothing. Us whiners are more engaged in the community than him and hes the community manager. I simply believe hes to comfortable in his position and isn't doing what his job would normally entail: Organizing and forwarding different parts of the development team to answer the questions of this forum or at least vaguely reassuring users, maintaining a positive community atmosphere (*cough* severely failed this one).

What is the community managers actually doing right now (or for the past months?), I'm very curious to see the job description.
Don't get me wrong though, the times when Callum actually answered users its been positive but why isn't he doing this consistently?

@Callum

This forum is not the entirety of their community, so it is not all that they have to manage. I say they, because Dejan is also a community manager. I can personally attest to Dejan's efforts to promote community projects and keep content creators engaged on this forum, but much of that is not related to development of the game. There are things more important and more reasonable to do than assigning an employee to an indefinite 24/7 AMA.

 

[cyresdog]

There are things more important and more reasonable to do than assigning an employee to an indefinite 24/7 AMA

True but seeing how far it has gone already with the lack of interaction between TaleWorlds and their Community, i think there definitely should be someone doing something about it. Rather sooner than later.
That is an Topic for the past 6-7 months, and it gets worse and worse to the point that people openly quit this forum because of that.
And TW just stays silent for no reason whatsoever.
And i don't get how someone can defend something like that, we literally paid money for being in Early Access and the statement of TaleWorlds himself on the steam page states:

Why Early Access?
“Early access is something that we are very familiar with: our first title, Mount & Blade, helped to pioneer this method of release back in 2005. By working alongside our community we were able to deliver a unique gaming experience that players still enjoy to this day. These past experiences have taught us that it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect.

....

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“We intend to use a range of different methods to gather player feedback and data throughout the early access period. These include engaging with users directly on our official forum and our Steam forum, requesting specific feedback through questionnaires, hosting and participating in multiplayer events alongside our community, and using analytics tools to gather data.”
SOURCE: Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord on Steam (steampowered.com)

Which is so far utter BS.

 

[Cri11e]

-

-

I agree with cyresdog's assessment.

There is something quite interesting about the work ethics / work culture at taleworlds and how they treat their playerbase, this is not a lone instance but other departments like that of @Janus ([email protected]) also have problem understanding / confronting their own lack of professionalism towards users, but to his defence at least he directly answered albeit in a incendiary way.

If Taleworlds felt a deep sense of loyalty towards us the taken steps thereof would have shaped this forum to a very vibrant, active and hopeful place. Instead cynicism and dark humour is rampant here, and us who still linger in these halls always grin and smirk when we enter each door, like sickly and tormented souls. (I have to admit I laughed when I wrote that)

 

[babelfisch]

Regarding "worst EA ever", I bought Baldurs Gate 3 EA. The last update was in October IIRC, the game isn't anywhere near completion and full of bugs. Player numbers are lower than M&B, even though it's one of the most anticipated RPGs since 20 years. I believe it was also full price. Compared to that, Bannerlord doesn't look too bad.

 

[cyresdog]

Regarding "worst EA ever", I bought Baldurs Gate 3 EA. The last update was in October IIRC, the game isn't anywhere near completion and full of bugs. Player numbers are lower than M&B, even though it's one of the most anticipated RPGs since 20 years. I believe it was also full price. Compared to that, Bannerlord doesn't look too bad.

Baldurs gate 3 gets a big update soon, they posted the news a few days ago after an almost daily interaction with their playerbase on their forums.
And baldurs gate 3 isn't a sandbox game, so after you had 2-3 playthroughs there is nothing left to do.
So yea their playerbase may seem little but I am really excited to see if their playercount will rise back up with their next update.

BG3 is not the perfect example for EA either, but its no comparison to Bannerlord.
And Larian Studios knowns damn well how to play their media game right

 

[MostBlunted]

Regarding "worst EA ever", I bought Baldurs Gate 3 EA. The last update was in October IIRC, the game isn't anywhere near completion and full of bugs. Player numbers are lower than M&B, even though it's one of the most anticipated RPGs since 20 years. I believe it was also full price. Compared to that, Bannerlord doesn't look too bad.

And Larian is totally honest about it so what:

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“Though Act 1 (the content for Early Access) is defined, Act’s 2 and 3 are work in progress. It’s therefore difficult to predict when 1.0 will launch. We anticipate Baldur’s Gate 3 being in Early Access for at least one year but we’ll have to see how it goes. It’ll be ready when it’s ready.”

Will I enjoy Early Access?
You should not buy Baldur’s Gate 3 in Early Access if you want a polished experience.

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The Early Access version of Baldur’s Gate 3 includes Act 1 of the game which, in one playthrough, is approximately 25 hours of self-contained content.

So if I read this I´m totally sure that this game is far away from beeing finished, no problem for me.

While TW sold their game as "closed to beeing finished", "just some stuff is missing"...

How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?
“The early access version of the game contains a wealth of content that will keep players engaged for many hours. While the early access version is very much stable and playable, players can expect to run into some obscure bugs and other issues while playing that we intend to locate and fix before the full release.

See the difference? I do...

TW knew the hype for Bannerlord was huge back then, they saw the chance to sell a lof ot copies and released the alpha version as EA. Now the hype is totally gone and I don´t believe there will be a new hype in the future. I´ve not seen Bannerlord featured on any big gaming website since months.

TW knows that the final release won´t sell that good as the EA release, so why should they care to get this game finished at all soon? They already earned their money.

If they would just think about the money (I´m NOT saying that they do) they could just go into maintance mode und start developing a new game or whatever.

And sometimes it feels they are already in maintance mode since months....those huge delays between the "real" updates...

I´m really interested seeing how far they´ve come in april 2021 when the year is over .

 

[Earth Dragon]

I don’t see any misleading info on the TW post. Bannerlord is stable. People play for 200 hours THEN come and ***** about stuff. The Bannerlord EA is nothing other then that: Early Access to an unpolished, incomplete, yet playable,, if buggy, product.

 

[cyresdog]

I´m really interested seeing how far they´ve come in april 2021 when the year is over

The final update will finally fix the crash when you are level 22 with 34% experience towards 23 and a looters hits you in the right eye while you chose vlandia as your starting faction. But that only happens every 3rd Tuesday and only between 12pm and noon

I don’t see any misleading info on the TW post. Bannerlord is stable. People play for 200 hours THEN come and ***** about stuff. The Bannerlord EA is nothing other then that: Early Access to an unpolished, incomplete, yet playable,, if buggy, product.

Read the bannerlord steam page again.
They clearly stated that they work with the community.
Have yet to see that happen.
They said they make questionnaires. Not gotten yet so far.
Or make tournaments.
Which got either started by someone from the community or the moderators, who are stated by the mods themself, not TW associates.
3 out of 3 lies

 

[Blood Gryphon]

@cyresdog @MostBlunted If you're going to try and use TW own words against them you need to tell the full story of what they said.

First what they said about release date:

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“While we do not have a set date for a full release at this moment in time, we expect that the game will be in early access for around a year. Our focus is on ensuring that the game is fun and enjoyable rather than imposing a deadline that might have a negative impact on the final product.”

Which is literally the same statement Larian made.

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“Though Act 1 (the content for Early Access) is defined, Act’s 2 and 3 are work in progress. It’s therefore difficult to predict when 1.0 will launch. We anticipate Baldur’s Gate 3 being in Early Access for at least one year but we’ll have to see how it goes. It’ll be ready when it’s ready.”

Read the bannerlord steam page again.
They clearly stated that they work with the community.
Have yet to see that happen.
They said they make questionnaires. Not gotten yet so far.
Or make tournaments.
Which got either started by someone from the community or the moderators, who are stated by the mods themself, not TW associates.
3 out of 3 lies

I and even mostblunted are proof that the devs are listening and work with the community (maybe not for literally every subject, but just because a dev doesn't post doesn't mean they haven't saved your comment and passed it around TW to discuss). The UI team literally is on almost everyday checking the suggestion page and interacting with people there to implement their ideas (they accept most reasonable suggestions). We are now seeing more members of the campaign AI team posting more awesome data about their changes and discussing feedback with players. Mulitplayer devs are very active in the MP forums. If you want to find the devs working with the community get off the front page (all the **** posts like this) of the forums and go into the suggestions forums where they mostly hang out.

I can attest that during the MP closed beta they would send out questionnaires for us to provide feedback on how we felt about certain classes and their strength levels. Not quite sure why that has stopped, but also have no idea how helpful it really was. Like what happens when your community is split on who is OP and who is weak, sometimes qualitative data is not very helpful and easily skewed. Do you buff a faction because people feel its weak even though they have the highest win percentage? I do surveys and data analysis for a job, sometimes its great sometimes its noise. Direct responses, like forum posts, are often much more helpful and specific. I'd rather they did it, but I can understand why they stopped.

They state they will hold MP events, which they have already, not tournaments. TW has been very supportive of beast tho and honestly they need to focus on finishing the game before worrying about putting on their own tournaments.

All in all I think Orion said it best earlier.

To say that TW doesn't care about the community is an insult to those devs that were drawn from it and who still maintain ties to it, as well as those devs that regularly post on the forum. I'm no fan of their snail's pace or stubbornness about certain features & mechanics, but in my 15 years of activity here I have never once had cause to question if they cared about their work and the people who play it. You may want to broaden your perspective.

 

[cyresdog]

@cyresdog @MostBlunted If you're going to try and use TW own words against them you need to tell the full story of what they said.

First what they said about release date:


Which is literally the same statement Larian made.



I and even mostblunted are proof that the devs are listening and work with the community (maybe not for literally every subject, but just because a dev doesn't post doesn't mean they haven't saved your comment and passed it around TW to discuss). The UI team literally is on almost everyday checking the suggestion page and interacting with people there to implement their ideas (they accept most reasonable suggestions). We are now seeing more members of the campaign AI team posting more awesome data about their changes and discussing feedback with players. Mulitplayer devs are very active in the MP forums. If you want to find the devs working with the community get off the front page (all the **** posts like this) of the forums and go into the suggestions forums where they mostly hang out.

I can attest that during the MP closed beta they would send out questionnaires for us to provide feedback on how we felt about certain classes and their strength levels. Not quite sure why that has stopped, but also have no idea how helpful it really was. Like what happens when your community is split on who is OP and who is weak, sometimes qualitative data is not very helpful and easily skewed. Do you buff a faction because people feel its weak even though they have the highest win percentage? I do surveys and data analysis for a job, sometimes its great sometimes its noise. Direct responses, like forum posts, are often much more helpful and specific. I'd rather they did it, but I can understand why they stopped.

They state they will hold MP events, which they have already, not tournaments. TW has been very supportive of beast tho and honestly they need to focus on finishing the game before worrying about putting on their own tournaments.

All in all I think Orion said it best earlier.

I get where you are coming from, and absolutely love and appreciate that you stay neutral on that topic and try to give me your perspective of things.
But the truth is, that even tho there are Devs who seem to care about the game and interact with players, those are in the great view nearly none.
I appreciate every single dev who takes its time to go on these forums and read what the players say, but also, that is what they promised us to do in the beginning. That is literally what is stated on the Steam Page, so i am grateful that they do it, but acting as if they are saints is just plain wrong.

And i said it earlier, no one knows if they are actually reading a thread if they never reply to it. And no, i don't expect a fully fleshed out reply to every single suggestion that someone made on this forum, but you have to admit their activitiy on here is so little that whenever you see a dev posting in a thread it feels more like a feverdream than reality.

And the most important part of the dev team (because the game is currently barebones af), idk what its called, the ones who are in charge of features and mechanics, have delivered absolutely nothing yet. In 9 months.

And to the Larian Part, i can just point out the time of development. Bannerlord is close to a decade (Fun fact: i know 2 people who weren't even adults when Bannerlord got announced and are now married with their own house) in development. And when i try to hope that soon there will be apatch that gives us a big content update, is just me lying to myself. If this game what we have right now is the product of nearly 10 years of development, what can 1 year more do to it?
While BG3 is iirc in development for 2 1/2 year or 3 years. And looks waaaaay more like a finished product than Bannerlord does. And Larians game is an absolute monster of an RPG, with tens of thousands of voice lines, outcomes, variables etc. So i don't think its an easy game to develop either

But afterall, thanks for a good counterpart man. Appreciate when someone accepts another opinion without being offended or insulting

 

[MostBlunted]

I´m not really interesting in nit picking right now but to summarize, Larian says:

- at least 1 year in EA
- has 1 act out of 3 acts which contains around 25 gameplay hours

TW says:

- will be in EA for around 1 year
- has a lot of content you can enjoy for many hours
- only needs some polish

My definition for "around one year" is like should be done in max 1,5 years.
My definition for "at least one year" is like 1-3 years

But we already discussed this stuff like a hundred times, everyone has his/her own opinion on it which is fine. I still think TWs EA description was and IS misleading! Nobody has to agree with it.

But the root cause of this discussion was: "But look at Balduars Gate 3, it´s even worse than Bannerlord!" (which isn´t true...). Bannerlord won´t get a better game if other companies release worse games than TW. It doesn´t even impact Bannerlord in any way. It doesn´t make sense to say stuff like this for me.

I want Bannerlord to be a good game, I don´t care what Larian does at the moment.

It´s okay to "defend" Bannerlord/TW or to enjoy Bannerlord in it´s current state right now. But it´s also ok to not enjoy Bannerlord and to be dissapointed which most EA aspects of this game.

Let´s see if 1.5.6 will finally change the gameplay for real (rebellions) or if it is just another lackluster updates which adds new gamebreaking bugs like a lot of new updates and we have to wait 2-3 weeks until they get fixed...

 

[Koyaan]

Haven't had a reply yet to my question, Again I would be more than happy for this thread to be locked If we can just get a clear yes or no:

''Yeah in retrospect I should have asked a proper question in my original post, but It was morso a quick rant about the state of development after being frustrated with how TW are handling the Custom servers thread in the MP forum. Id be satisfied with this thread getting locked if someone from Taleworlds can answer me one question:

Is there an transparent roadmap coming that clearly details what fixes and new features we will see by full release with clear explanations for why they they will/ wont be in the full release. Specifically the custom servers from the MP section and as for Singleplayer other users could suggest the main topics they want to be addressed.''

**Some people seem unsure as to what the diffrence between a blog for a patch is and what I'm requesting. I really really want to know what are the exact planned features the full game will be released with. will we see custom servers, feasts, new game modes.... Im only requesting the major things we should be expecting. please

could a moderator keep this on topic so we don't stray to arguments again, only looking for tale worlds to address or not and we can shut it down

 

[MostBlunted]

Haven't had a reply yet to my question, Again I would be more than happy for this thread to be locked If we can just get a clear yes or no:

Unfortunately you won´t get an official answer.

But the answer still is: We won´t get a "real" roadmap. We asked for it months ago, TW then updated their "roadmap thread" in ocotober. That´s all we got and I don´t think they change it.

So if you expect stuff like this:

Airport CEO Development | Trello

You won´t get it

EDIT:

I´m not even sure if they have an internal roadmap.

EDIT 2:

Airport CEO is also an awesome game if you like the genre

 

[Koyaan]

Even if we dont Itd be better if it got locked so people see TW refused to reply to this, silence is an answer after all