Player Progression and Troop Upgrade Outdated?

[JustinTime49]

So, I know a lot is subject to change, but I thought I'd ask to see how many feel about it.

We all know how at first in Warband it might've been silly that a simple man/woman in rags can run around with 10-20 elite highly armoured/skilled troops at their disposal, right?

Well with Bannerlord, it feels like this way of upgrading feels outdated, especially when taking into consideration new content like dynasties and new generations. The idea that I can train my soldiers into elite beings within weeks, while it's supposed to take me, my companions and children years to decades has started making me feel a bit off. Mix that in with the fact that your starting skills will always be 5-30 upon game start, and you're in a position where you lose immersion since according to the game, it takes you 32 years to develop 30 skills in trading when practising from childhood, yet a run-in with 100 looters over the timespan of weeks upgrades a peasant into a well-armoured veteran warrior with the skills of lesser lords.

I might be alone here, what do y'all think?

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yes and it's disappointing because I though this stuff was going to be changed to a more 'lower power level' gritty kind of thing for bannerlord, but all they did was make you have to buy very cheap horses to make Cavalry. But I think this is the type of thing we're just stuck with and I doubt we'll see change outside of mods. I mean 75% of the units don't know how to fight anyways so maybe you can't train an elite fighting force after all......

I would make it so there was a limit to promotion based on your skills, you need a certain level of knowledge to promote to higher ranks, not just exp, but troops need exp too. Companions could do this too.... but they'd be harder to get high skilled outa the box. But you could also develop or buy better equipment to help them out too.... to a point.... no massive bows for newbie archers or ultra maneuverable warhorses for guys who just learned to ride. But of course once you had land, you could invest into training facilities and research and eventuely you could mass produce an incredible army...... but it would take an absurd amount of time and effort and be end game type stuff. And I'd make getting good stuff early hard too, like you must be in good with a faction to buy their style of stuff, after all why do you need all that gear unless you're up to something? They're not gonna sell you their weapons and armor if you're gonna turn around and attack them.

EDIT: another thing I've though about that would be amusing would be if you promted too high, maybe they start disobeying you and taking your money and eventually they mutiny. Imagine having to fight your 40 swadian knights super early in warband?

I can't make a game though.

 

[JustinTime49]

I would make it so there was a limit to promotion based on your skills, you need a certain level of knowledge to promote to higher ranks, not just exp, but troops need exp too. Companions could do this too.... but they'd be harder to get high skilled outa the box. But you could also develop or buy better equipment to help them out too.... to a point.... no massive bows for newbie archers or ultra maneuverable warhorses for guys who just learned to ride. But of course once you had land, you could invest into training facilities and research and eventuely you could mass produce an incredible army...... but it would take an absurd amount of time and effort and be end game type stuff. And I'd make getting good stuff early hard too, like you must be in good with a faction to buy their style of stuff, after all why do you need all that gear unless you're up to something? They're not gonna sell you their weapons and armor if you're gonna turn around and attack them.

another thing I've though about that would be amusing would be if you promted too high, maybe they start disobeying you and taking your money and eventually they mutiny. Imagine having to fight your 40 swadian knights super early in warband?

Everything you described was kind of my hope.

I thought they were going to develop it more than just the horses, such as upgrading your troops only via skills, however, when you return back to a major settlement/castle, you can outfit x amount of troops with certain faction dependent presets depending on what you want. This, of course, will be balanced because many weapons are locked behind skills, meaning your militia who just upgraded from a peasant still can't and won't wield a warbow and swords(assuming equipment gets locked behind attribute points like in WB).

Maybe castles could act as armouries, which would provide you with more flexibility with equipment as opposed to towns, making castles even a little viable compared to their use as of now.

This system could also yield varied looking armies, as opposed to the copy-paste tunic non-shielded hoards that 90% of armies consist of.

 

[mr_nifty]

Yes and it's disappointing because I though this stuff was going to be changed to a more 'lower power level' gritty kind of thing for bannerlord, but all they did was make you have to buy very cheap horses to make Cavalry. But I think this is the type of thing we're just stuck with and I doubt we'll see change outside of mods. I mean 75% of the units don't know how to fight anyways so maybe you can't train an elite fighting force after all......

I would make it so there was a limit to promotion based on your skills, you need a certain level of knowledge to promote to higher ranks, not just exp, but troops need exp too. Companions could do this too.... but they'd be harder to get high skilled outa the box. But you could also develop or buy better equipment to help them out too.... to a point.... no massive bows for newbie archers or ultra maneuverable warhorses for guys who just learned to ride. But of course once you had land, you could invest into training facilities and research and eventuely you could mass produce an incredible army...... but it would take an absurd amount of time and effort and be end game type stuff. And I'd make getting good stuff early hard too, like you must be in good with a faction to buy their style of stuff, after all why do you need all that gear unless you're up to something? They're not gonna sell you their weapons and armor if you're gonna turn around and attack them.

EDIT: another thing I've though about that would be amusing would be if you promted too high, maybe they start disobeying you and taking your money and eventually they mutiny. Imagine having to fight your 40 swadian knights super early in warband?

I can't make a game though.

These are all very interesting ideas.

 

[mr_nifty]

Everything you described was kind of my hope.

I thought they were going to develop it more than just the horses, such as upgrading your troops only via skills, however, when you return back to a major settlement/castle, you can outfit x amount of troops with certain faction dependent presets depending on what you want. This, of course, will be balanced because many weapons are locked behind skills, meaning your militia who just upgraded from a peasant still can't and won't wield a warbow and swords(assuming equipment gets locked behind attribute points like in WB).

Maybe castles could act as armouries, which would provide you with more flexibility with equipment as opposed to towns, making castles even a little viable compared to their use as of now.

This system could also yield varied looking armies, as opposed to the copy-paste tunic non-shielded hoards that 90% of armies consist of.

Would be crazy fun.

 

[kykygambler]

I wish there was an option to spend my 2m in game money on troops. Its stupid that lets say i take the challenge to fight 200vs800 and lose. Then im rich as **** but even with gr8test relations i cant recruit anything better than t2 troops because Villages do not have enough high tier recruits.. After lost battle the setback is huge, takes too long to re recruit the troops. Im a ****ing king, let me spend my millions to get an army back, let me tell my vassals that I require them to provide me with troops. Oh no I forgot, npc lords also have **** troops, even after the patch. No wonder battles take 2 minutes when most of the time the units involved consist of shieldless infantry, op archers and non existing unit collision.. Money should be harder to come by, but also money should buy you things. Would anyone mind if we had a feature to spend 1 milion on 50 heavy cav? The grind is enough already.

 

[karijus]

If you look at it from gameplay perspective though - it doesn't mean much if an AI soldier has 50 skill or 300 - they are still easy to beat. Of course elites might be tougher, and equipment makes a big difference, but you having 200 skill in cutting heads off, is very different from AI soldier having 200 skill. A bit gamey, but that's kinda the fault of the new goofy skill system. In warband for example top soldiers had like 150~ skill, which isn't really all that much, and can easily be achieved with some experience, but it makes a big difference from 50~ or whatever low number they start with + power strike and all that. In bannerlord 150 is quite damn high and hard to get, but it doesn't make much of a difference, at least as long as perks dont work on soldiers, so it feels off if you look at the numbers, but it's fine if you just look at the gameplay.

What I WOULD like to see though, is a high cost of upgrading troop equipment. I think there should be 2 separate upgrade paths - one for skills and another one for inventory, or just inventory, that is tied to skill, for simplicity, but with a cost that actually represents the items, like with horses. Some of the armors and stuff that the elite guys use are insanely expensive and that should be reflected in the game.

Another thing that might be interesting - since there is no way to spend lategame money, just let us equip fresh troops with equipment worth millions of $, so that they level up faster and are not useless from the go lol.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Would anyone mind if we had a feature to spend 1 milion on 50 heavy cav? The grind is enough already.

They better be able to take a few shots and wipe out 10X there number in 10 secs like a Swadian Knight for that price, but yeah I wouldn't mind. It should have some other mechanics to get to make a knight though, like actually being a respected ruler who inspires the people and creates a order of Knights and abducts..... er.... recruits the best armorers in the land the best horse breeder and trainers.

 

[Dabos37]

Agree with opinion. This is probably the worst part of the game currently. There is not any kind of proggression feeling. Companions rarely level up. Fighting skills for main character are a pain to level up and losing battles is not an option because we cannot train units effectively.

On the other hand, I have the feeling that years should be faster, 8X days is too much and It will make pointless aging, death, kids, etc.

 

[limier]

i disagree, you don't need to reinvent the wheels here, everyone is coming with his super idea like. yeah, we could do that and that and that, and you could also play another game. they are just improving the system of the old one and making fixs and improvement. this game took them 8 years to developp they are not going to make another system in less than 1 year. Everyone must lower their expectations here. Be realistic please.

 

[kykygambler]

Recruitmeny can stay as it is. Tweak number of recruits to be higher level if relations are high! Add a system for buying troops with cash, can be simple as fire and sword mercenaries.. Make them expensive as **** for balance. Also make these quests populate faster as really, influence 350 guy with good recruits in a village gave me two quests for 100 days which is bad and frustrating. In warband and f&s you could farm quests as you like. While i hate grind i get its point so reward player for actually grinding. Or they can just let us pour money to the notables to unlock the troops. Just anything better as it currently is, as i have plenty of saves with lots of hours, milions in the bank without posibility to spend it. I lose a battle and im doomed. Make cash harder to come by and make it actually be worth anything is what im saying. Let me spend thay cool 1 mil to get some noble recruits, even t1 id need be. Also towns never have good recruits which is bad. Castles are useless fiefs, make them populate garrison with units for cash or whatever, there are plenty solutions that do not reinvent the wheel

 

[limier]

The cash is here to buy lords and trade some settlements (that cost millions of cash). the gold is not useless.

 

[ZydrateTheSmoothCriminal]

Yes.

 

[kykygambler]

The cash is here to buy lords and trade some settlements (that cost millions of cash). the gold is not useless.

Why do we even argue about this? More possibilities is always better. Gold is useless. Once you are far into the game you realize this. Its a sandbox. Lets say km playing as merc and im rich as ****, shouldnt that give me the possibility to buy 10 elite troops for cash? I have perfect relations with vlandian villages, do you realize how long it takes to make 50 vlandian knights? And i have 3m in the bank. Let me spend that 3m for 50 knights, i wouldnt mind neither most of the people id assume

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

In warband and f&s you could farm quests as you like

I've never done a quest in WF&S but in unmodded Warband you absolutely could not farm quest as you like. You had an annoying timer before village elders could offer you a new quest and if they offered one you didn't want to do you were outa luck. Guild masters would always have something but likewise if you turned it down you had to wait a good while to try again. You could save scum the guild master though.... but who want that. Quests had lots of weird rules like often completing a "hunt the bandits" quest would make the guild master stop offering quests until you went to a different guild master and did a quest....
You could never have more then 1 "rescue prisoner" quest, even though you would know for a fact there were multiple prisoners in the same jail.... prison...dungeon... and you tracked down their relatives to try and multi task....nope....

But I agree and I would like the notables to always have multiple quests to do if you actually want to. I mean in a perfect world there would be no bad counter productive quests...... but I'll settle for just having a choice since they seemed to put a lot of work into making quests with double edged outcomes.

Forcing recruitment works surprisingly well in BL. Everyone already hates me, why not?

 

[ZydrateTheSmoothCriminal]

On the other hand, I have the feeling that years should be faster, 8X days is too much and It will make pointless aging, death, kids, etc.

It feels too slow because there is nothing to do with all that time, meaning features and content is needed.

 

[limier]

Why do we even argue about this? More possibilities is always better. Gold is useless. Once you are far into the game you realize this. Its a sandbox. Lets say km playing as merc and im rich as ****, shouldnt that give me the possibility to buy 10 elite troops for cash? I have perfect relations with vlandian villages, do you realize how long it takes to make 50 vlandian knights? And i have 3m in the bank. Let me spend that 3m for 50 knights, i wouldnt mind neither most of the people id assume

Why do we even argue about this? More possibilities is always better. Gold is useless. Once you are far into the game you realize this. Its a sandbox. Lets say km playing as merc and im rich as ****, shouldnt that give me the possibility to buy 10 elite troops for cash? I have perfect relations with vlandian villages, do you realize how long it takes to make 50 vlandian knights? And i have 3m in the bank. Let me spend that 3m for 50 knights, i wouldnt mind neither most of the people id assume

why you can't recrut 50 vlandian knight? simply because it doesn't make any sens. If you want higher tier troops for gold you recrut mercenaries, not some national army troops because they are not only motivate by gold. if you can buy some top tier national troops with gold then the game become too easy. Again the gold is to buy lord during war so that you don't have to loose troops besieging towns and caslt or to trade some settlements. That's a great system in my opinion.

edit: i got and army of cataphract / brucellarrii right now and it didn't took me years to train them, the training /upgrading is not so difficult..

 

[Stratigo]

Ironically, the vlandians started as mercenaries. So buying 50 vlandian banner knights isn't so out of the ordinary. But then they decide that castle they conquered really should be theirs.

 

[limier]

Ironically, the vlandians started as mercenaries. So buying 50 vlandian banner knights isn't so out of the ordinary. But then they decide that castle they conquered really should be theirs.

true, but if you do this for one culture, then you must do it for each one of them.. i think developpers have some bigger problems to fix right now. the mercenaries are already solving this "i want to buy high tier troops with gold" but in any pros you need some cons so this mercenaries troops are not as efficient as the vlandian knight, wich seems fair to me.

 

[kykygambler]

Fine. So these mercenaries you speak of. Please give me a feature to call all mercenaries available in the realm So i dont have to fisit Town to Town to recruit two looters. I can work with mercenaries, thats fine, but assembling an rmy of them takes forever and is even more so frustrating.. Also look at their stats! They are rubbish. Let me spend that cool million to recruit 50 heavy as **** cavalery who demand kingdoms worth of wages. Im fine. Im happy that you massed that army. Now go get wrecked in a battle you do not run from since this is sandbox and you can roleplay, get wrecked, tell me how long it takes you to get them back and how fun was the process of doing so