Piercing vs Plate armour

[Rodolph]

Hello guys.
What about giving arrows and bows ¨piercing points¨?
I mean, for example, for their shape, x type of arrow has 5 piercing, and a hunting bow has 5 piercing points.
Then, an armour, like plate, has, for example 20 piercing defense, so the archer has 10 piercing points, bow + arrows, so, since the plate have higher pierce defense points (20) it will not harm the player.
Just to add some realism (As far as possible) since i see ridiculous using a board shield with plate armour on horseback, when plate armour wasn´t always used with shields (Specially in the later half of the XV century)

And, i think that Milanese armours with armets should be added. (With the waist length cape, wich can be done like Artimenner clothes´ cape, but shorter)
If any developer like Armagan is ever reading this, and consider the idea of adding Milanese plate, i have several images of such type of armour (Photos, paintings and excellent diagrams)

 

[DamienZharkoff]

What we need is expensive metal shields to (decorative mainly since their speed would be crap) that have high resistence bonus

 

[spectre:]

So, you mean armor piercing projectiles?

Not a bad idea. I'd see this as an additional mod (aside from Good vs. Shields, it would be Good vs. Armor).
It would only work for bolts, bodkin arrows and firearms.

HOWEVER.

Piercing damamge is already naturally good vs armor already. All this is solved by simply tweaking the damage a bit.
What I do personally, is fire up the item editor, and make the prefixes: heavy and balanced appear on arrows and some bows.
5+ damage Heavy bodkin? Voila, instant AP ammo.

 

[Archonsod]

Piercing halves the effectiveness of armour.

Mightn't be realistic, but the idea is to have some semblance of balanced gameplay rather than accurately model a medieval battlefield.

 

[Dain Ironfoot]

Yes. This is sort of in the RCM thing and it really isn't that fun from my brief experience with it. You end up swatting helplessly at heavily armoured people, which doesn't make for great gameplay.

 

[Rodolph]

Piercing halves the effectiveness of armour.

Mightn't be realistic, but the idea is to have some semblance of balanced gameplay rather than accurately model a medieval battlefield.

Just

So... Will you add Milanese plate?


P.D.
What is RCM?
Looking someone throwing daggers at you and making damage even wearing full plate isn´t funny too. Running behind a ****ing horse archer while he shoots arrows isn´t funny too. I don´t like the idea of plate and shield,  it is not funny, i don´t want an overpowered guy with such armour, but we have to admit that plate was a huge jump, leaving short bows and other crappy proyectile weapons useless.
XV century warhammers should be added.

Anyway, plate should be moooore expensive, but vulnerable to bolts, and horses should be much more expensive.

So, i think...
-XV century warhammers and battle axes should be added.
-More realistic (Shorter) Poleaxes should be added.
-Milanese armour with plumed armet/ barbuta, with tassets, cloth cape (Widely used by noblemen) and double mail skirt should be added.
(- And if possible Gothic plate too)

I have a lot of diagrams and photos of such things, i can provide them if you are planning to add any of those in Native...

 

[The Yogi]

RCM is the acronym for Realistic Combat Model, a game mechanics mod by Ron Losey (latest version for v.903) which is impelemented or optional in many great mods like Onin No Ran and The Last Days of the Third Age. You can find the latest version on the MBX forum.

Basically, it ups the damage of most weapons, so that one good hit usually kills an unarmoured target. It ups resistance and lowers hitpoints of shields so they won't be degraded by weak hits but can break from one really hard one. It increases armour protection for mail and plate armour. It takes away the armour piercing capability from thrusting weapons (spears, sword thrusts, bows) but reatains it for blunt weapons, axes and crossbows.

(The arrow/crossbow distinction is mainly a compromise stemming from the fact that the armourpiercing capability is assigned to the bow/crossbow, not the arrow/bolt.)

RCM also makes horses much faster and more maneouvrable, more in line with real horses.

All in all, I prefer RCM, although it does makes things very hard in the early game, when you have weak armour, and somewhat too easy in the late game, when you're well protected. RCM for native is not intended as a playable mod but a mod developers tool, since it mercilessly brings out the imbalances inherent in native (mix of equipment from vastly different eras).

For the shorter pollaxes, and other weapons, please have a look at my own Realistic Native Weapon Sizes mod, see my sig. Latest version item1. txt files are not compatible with .903 although included Python source code is.

 

[Rodolph]

Hello Yogi,
I have seen you resized weapons (ONly the swords for now) and it is an excellent job.
In the other hand, since i´m not very friendly with the idea of adding plate in Mount & Blade, i think that the current armour should be replaced with the full Milanese looking. I know that it may be hard to animate, but the old plate animations are great, i don´t think it would be such a deal. If not, the 1420 period armour with houndskull helm with breatsplate and the very long mail skirt should be there.

Anyway, RCM should be implemented. A fully armored foe is not invulnerable if it is faced with the proper weapons, like:
-Warhammers
-Axes
-Poleaxes
-Longbows
-Fireguns
-Crossbows

Swords are only a very little part of the game, they are not the only weapons and, as i always state, plate should be very expensive, and horses more expensive even.
Plate should not allow shields too.
If some polearms do not allow shield, Why not doing the same with the plate?
I don´t know how to model or program, i would do it myself, but i lack of the proper knowledge, if anybody ever thinks of adding Milanese plate into Native, or XV century warhammers (The current ones look like XVI century ones) and axes, i have a lot of images to provide.

 

[spectre:]

-Longbows

I'd wager it's more about the bodkin arrow than the longbow.

-Fireguns

Ye mean a flamethrower, or just the regular boomstick?
Sorry, chap, couldn't help myself (-:

Plate should not allow shields too.
If some polearms do not allow shield, Why not doing the same with the plate?

This I don't understand. You wear plate so that you can afford not to have a shield, but that doesn't mean you can't. It's not like it magically disables your hand or anything. If people want to, let them.

 

[Rodolph]

-Longbows

I'd wager it's more about the bodkin arrow than the longbow.

-Fireguns

Ye mean a flamethrower, or just the regular boomstick?
Sorry, chap, couldn't help myself (-:

Plate should not allow shields too.
If some polearms do not allow shield, Why not doing the same with the plate?

This I don't understand. You wear plate so that you can afford not to have a shield, but that doesn't mean you can't. It's not like it magically disables your hand or anything. If people want
to, let them.

About fireguns, i think a flamethrower or a grenade launcher would be ok.
Maybe, a Harquebus.

Bodkin arrows are ok, but the bows makes great difference too.

About the shield, it was just a suggestion, but i think that plate already gives enough protection (If thinking in RCM)
Also horses should have more hp, real horses car resist terrible injury and take a lot of damage in the battlefield.

Maybe, in the game, as you rise levels, lords could rise them too and get better stuff and troops. I don´t know.

 

[buzbybadman]

The longbow was the first truly armour peircing bow (infact maybe the last too before gunpowder took over), don't know about the arrows used so this probably had something to do it, perhaps the longbow was the only bow powerful enough to fire them.  Your best bet to find out about that would be to look up the battle of Agincourt if you really wanted to know. 
Surely the ability for ranged weapons to peirce armour would also have alot to do with the distance from which they are fired to the target?