Phoenix's Updated Kings and Nobles Concept.

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Phoenix234

Sergeant Knight at Arms
This post is rather old now, Ill update soon...

Kings and Nobles set up.
This is a continuation and update of this thread http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,204710.0.html
Ive been working an an update that increases the power of religious groups and makes the system much fairer for everyone.

Nobles are split into 3 groups.

The King
High Nobles
Nobles.

The King/Queen:
This player is the current ruler of the land, they have the power to make small law changes for the Town watch to follow ( should be realistic and reasonable) and the King Declares the main religion of the region to be followed.

For example, the king declares the regions primary religion Laszloism.
He can then pass a law banning or allowing other religions to be practices inside the region. If he bans the other religions he can declare preachers of those religions as Heretics, meaning anyone who follows a different religion to the main is forced into hiding when preaching or spreading the word.

The Kings faction and Vassals then become the only group allowed to own the keep that is connected to the main commoner city. If the king isn’t on a Vassal can take up that faction until the king returns. This castle isn’t capturable and is only usable by the king and his vassals to represent how they own the region.

High nobles
These nobles make up the council for the king, they come from respected and influential families, most likely rich with factions and houses of their own.

They have the responsibility of vouching for men who want to be nobles, helping the king pass laws and debate issues of the people with the king. Otherwise they are independent groups expected to act as neutral law men or promote trader and prosperity.
They should be feared and admired as when it comes to a battle they have great influence and convincing a high noble to your cause will drastically improve your odds.

Nobles and Knights.
These players make up the remaining nobility, everyone from the Dukes to the Knights. They can vary in strength, Influence and what factions they are a part of/ lead. They make up the majority of the mounted soldiers during a battle against the king and will usually have men of their own to bring to the battlefield.
Although not as powerful as the high nobles the nobles are still respected and influential leaders in society and will change the tide of battles more often then the higher nobles since they are in a much greater number.

Other groups

Warlords,

If a player who isn’t a noble attempts to usurp the king they are warlords. They can vary from expelled nobles to serfs and their forces can also vary depending on the cause.
Anyone can declare they are a warlord, but only few can back up that claim with an army.

Religious groups:
Because a king can outlaw a religion from being practised religious factions will find it important to make sure the king either allows their supported religion or makes it the primary.
If a king outlaws a religion and punishes the preachers that religions popes and bishops could declare a holy war against the king forcing all nobles and the common people to either join there religions holy war or risk excommunication.

Mercenaries
Players who don’t wish to be tied to a specific faction or group can apply to be a mercenaries for a battle event, each side will declare a pay rate and recruit anyone willing to join their cause.

This also works for mercenary factions who want to sell their services as a group.

Battle event Class set up

Each social class unlocks different tiers of combat class:
This is aimed at making nobility even more important to have on your side during a battle and to make a more realistic medieval battlefield.

King/Queen: All classes.
High Noble: Man at Arms, Sergeant and Lancer.
Noble: Lancer and everything below.
Faction members (A persistent faction that's pledged to 1 side): Footmen,Crossbowman and archer
Mercenaries: Footmen,Crossbowman, Archer and below.
Unaligned, Serfs or random players: Ruffian(pretend your militia  :lol:), Huntsmen, Traveller,Serfs, Engineers and Doctors

On event start the players join up in there groups and join the group they support and choose a class they are allowed to use. Everyone then follows the orders of the king and his vassals.

The admin team give gold to each side based off the value of the players supporting each side, Nobles can provide a side with more gold then a serf can etc.

Both sides battle till either the king is captured or dead AND his castle is taken OR the attacking side fails to capture the castle within the time limit or they retreat.

The winning king then sets the religion and laws for that next week until he is removed from the throne

Becoming a Noble:
An aspiring noble needs to get support from 50% of the high nobles to get an audience with the king, the king then speaks to the aspiring noble and using hardcore roleplay has to be convinced that he is a worthy choice using tributes of gold, resources and the promise of support to the kings cause.

If the king accepts this man is now a noble! Giving him all of the perks and requirements you would expect. If he isn’t accepted the king can add a clause or requirement for his return or the man can simply try again in a week.

High nobles are chosen from both servers to make it fairer and easier to get support from them, expect to prove your worth to the high noble as he is placing his reputation on the line for you to become a noble yourself ( good role-playing requirements etc)


 
i like the concept, my only issue is lancers.. we might look at it differently tho, to me a lancer = light cav. scouts and skirmishers. it was a pretty standard practice among alot of different group nobility or not.
 
martyrAD 说:
i like the concept, my only issue is lancers.. we might look at it differently tho, to me a lancer = light cav. scouts and skirmishers. it was a pretty standard practice among alot of different group nobility or not.

Lancer = warhorses.
Dont you need 5 riding for them? I thought lancer was the only class that actually could use the war horse?
they would be heavy cav then. well that was my design.

Lancer in my eyes was a guy on a plated charger with a heavy lance, full plate and shield. I wouldnt call them light :razz:
 
What are the dangers that a king face, other than the event?
Phoenix234 说:
Lancer = warhorses.
Dont you need 5 riding for them? I thought lancer was the only class that actually could use the war horse?
Either lords or men at arms (or both) are able to ride war horses... I remember because I used to ride war horses, yet I never trained as a lancer.
 
Troubles 说:
What are the dangers that a king face, other than the event?
Phoenix234 说:
Lancer = warhorses.
Dont you need 5 riding for them? I thought lancer was the only class that actually could use the war horse?
Either lords or men at arms (or both) are able to ride war horses... I remember because I used to ride war horses, yet I never trained as a lancer.

this is true, becuase lancers cant wear anything that requires 15 str. lancers in PW are more based around light Cav,  Men at arms are the heavy Cav
 
Troubles 说:
What are the dangers that a king face, other than the event?

during the week for example, he has to raise money to pay for his defence at the weekend, if a faction wanted to eliminate his chances they would interupt his trade routes and rob his men.

a King who cant protect his men and people wont be well supported... well that's how I imagine it :razz:

Centurion770 说:
I call high noble :grin:

Im currently looking into 3 NA and 3 EU high nobles my current thoughts were

EU:
Gaham - has a religions cult faction which rivals the laszloists
and myself

and NA:
Tirok- He's leader of the Tidwells which are laszloists

That basically means we have 2 rival religions to start with inside the high nobles, so if a noble pledges to either religion he will have support from a noble instantly

martyrAD 说:
Troubles 说:
What are the dangers that a king face, other than the event?
Phoenix234 说:
Lancer = warhorses.
Dont you need 5 riding for them? I thought lancer was the only class that actually could use the war horse?
Either lords or men at arms (or both) are able to ride war horses... I remember because I used to ride war horses, yet I never trained as a lancer.

this is true, becuase lancers cant wear anything that requires 15 str. lancers in PW are more based around light Cav,  Men at arms are the heavy Cav

ahh I see Ill have a look into that I was hoping to keep nobles and high nobles alittle different :razz: since they are supposed to be.
im surprised lancers don't have 15 strength though :S
 
my only issues being that nomads where known to be really good Light Cav/lancers. rank and wealth had nothing to do with it, more  based on how they lived there lives. Also a lot of mercenary companies where led be well known military commanders, in truth holding armies that at times, where hired in place of a standing army for towns during war time.


(not trying to rip apart your concept, just bringing up disscussion)
 
Phoenix234 说:
ahh I see Ill have a look into that I was hoping to keep nobles and high nobles alittle different :razz: since they are supposed to be.
im surprised lancers don't have 15 strength though :S
Lancer is actually the most useless class in PW. It's only advantage was either an extra agility point, or an extra riding point that enables them to ride the highest-skill-needed horse that even lords cannot mount (I can't remember which one of them). Other than that, it's quite poor.

Looking forward to this. We might disagree on smaller details, but what you're trying to deliver is still a great deal of improvement.
 
martyrAD 说:
my only issues being that nomads where known to be really good Light Cav/lancers. rank and wealth had nothing to do with it, more  based on how they lived there lives. Also a lot of mercenary companies where led be well known military commanders, in truth holding armies that at times, where hired in place of a standing army for towns during war time.


(not trying to rip apart your concept, just bringing up disscussion)

I can always change a few things around later. I was trying to avoid random lower players getting the best of everything you see.
Ill look into a way to balance lancers out, I didnt really want there to be many horsemen considering how rare they are meant to be and how unbalanced it would be to have militia vs an army of horsemen :razz:


Troubles 说:
Phoenix234 说:
ahh I see Ill have a look into that I was hoping to keep nobles and high nobles alittle different :razz: since they are supposed to be.
im surprised lancers don't have 15 strength though :S
Lancer is actually the most useless class in PW. It's only advantage was either an extra agility point, or an extra riding point that enables them to ride the highest-skill-needed horse that even lords cannot mount (I can't remember which one of them). Other than that, it's quite poor.

Looking forward to this. We might disagree on smaller details, but what you're trying to deliver is still a great deal of improvement.

im bringing this up with vornne, I must of thought man at arms was a lancer when i saw someone on a warhorse and thought it was a good class.
maybe suggest a buff to vornne?
 
well lancers are good if they have a lance, beyond that, yea pretty useless. and even then its more a map related issue then class, they work amazing on EU.
 
only thing i can think of is the master at arms = high end cav, where as the seargent = high end infantry. so both those classes imo  would fall in under Knights.
 
martyrAD 说:
only thing i can think of is the master at arms = high end cav, where as the seargent = high end infantry. so both those classes imo  would fall in under Knights.

Yea I wanted to split them up abit, I figured those 2 classes are more leadership then knights on horseback

man at arms might go to nobles if lancer isnt improved.

that fairer? :smile:

anything else? any changes or likes about it? :razz:

we also have a map being made thats really well tactical, its big so that once you commit to a tactic its not easy to randomly move half your men so a smart player will do well :smile:
 
question is will  this be put into effect and if so, on which server? i dont mind it honestly. people dont liked to RP serf's yet i did it and was running a tavern quite well.
 
Ive asked Aldric and dom to look at this thread, Id hope both since they will merge servers anyway it needs to be both :razz:

to be honest it gives us a king and a set of "official" nobles other players can claim nobles ingame they just would be from a foreign land and wouldn't get perks from the king

Im aiming to increase persistent factions and get more people involved in the mod lore, and since I started this and started bugging people we have had a few new factions appear and new religions too so its a good start :grin:
 
We wont do applications.
High nobles will be community leaders and older players.

nobles will need to find high nobles IC to get the vouches and then a IC meeting with the king.

Ive asked Aldric to add a private council area for nobles only on future maps so we can all meet up and roleplay some politics without threat of attack
 
Phoenix234 说:
Ive asked Aldric and dom to look at this thread, Id hope both since they will merge servers anyway it needs to be both :razz:

to be honest it gives us a king and a set of "official" nobles other players can claim nobles ingame they just would be from a foreign land and wouldn't get perks from the king

Im aiming to increase persistent factions and get more people involved in the mod lore, and since I started this and started bugging people we have had a few new factions appear and new religions too so its a good start :grin:

ive got a few things that i think im going to invest more time in developing before posting since i have an interest in the lore and such, just need to not be all over the place with my ideas.

only issue i could see with this on a server, is how would you limit things.. like king/nobles being able to obtain "X" class but not others?

and EU being notoriously bad at RP'ing along with possible language barriers.. even with the merger..
 
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