Mr Mohawk said:
Well, you can use the pila model I made, but no one has modeled Marian equipment afaik.
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Well, you can use the pila model I made, but no one has modeled Marian equipment afaik.
Phalanx300
Banned
Mr Mohawk said:So basically rename the factions?
And yes I believe they fought on foot too, but I want a mounted unit for the greeks, so it will have to do.
For the sake of accuracy, yes.
Would give the mod something special and be nice to see . Again what do you imagine the Greek faction being, as an real faction? Seeing it has Spartan Hoplites.You could make an light cavalry unit. Just an Hippeis. It would be weaker then cavalry of most other factions but would still fullfill its roll as an cavalry unit. Could also be given javelins to harass etc. Having an heavy cavalry unit for Greek city states isn't really accurate as far as I know.
Edit:
Actually I think you should devide the Greek Cities (If your going to keep them named that way) to two factions: Macedon and Greek Cities. Reason for this being it would be slightly more accurate, as having Pikemen fightign with Spartan Hoplites isn't that accurate. And those pikeman EB shows are only available much later in the game when some Greek Cities adapt but thats really long time off.
This would allow unit makeup like:
Macedon:
Peltasts, Hoplites, Pikeman, Companion Cavalry (elite).
Greek Cities:
Peltasts, Hoplites, Spartan Hoplites (elite), Hippeis.
Its nice thought up system of you:
Ranged Unit. Normal Unit. Heavy Unit. Cavalry.
And then among those having one Elite unit. Companion Cavalry for Macedon, Spartan Hoplites for Greek Cities.
Phalanx300 said:Mr Mohawk said:So basically rename the factions?
And yes I believe they fought on foot too, but I want a mounted unit for the greeks, so it will have to do.
For the sake of accuracy, yes.
You could make an light cavalry unit. Just an Hippeis. It would be weaker then cavalry of most other factions but would still fullfill its roll as an cavalry unit. Could also be given javelins to harass etc. Having an heavy cavalry unit for Greek city states isn't really accurate as far as I know.
Depends on the specific faction in Greece it is. Anyway, Greece should have some access to medium cavalry.
Phalanx300
Banned
Yes it depends on the faction. But generally speaking Greece having an heavy Cavalry unit is not right. It could medium for balance. (But then that means no faction could have light cavalry)
Macedon:
Peltasts. Pikemen(Pezhetairoi etc), Hypapists. Hetairoi(Companions). Sorry, but Pikemen are the typical unit in Macedonian armies.
Greek Cities:
Peltasts or Thureophorai to add some kinda difference to roster(thureophorai= skirmishers with spears and linothorax+bigger shield)
, Hoplites, Thorakitai(The Spartans have long since been in decline, besides, the Thebans proved to be their match. Thorakitai can be armored with linothorax, Greek styled mail coats or breastplates)+ Xiphos and a spear), Tarantine Cavalry (armored with Linothorax, pylos helm, throwing spears and a xiphos)
Going by post Alexander Greece/Macedon.
Phalanx300
Banned
Reason I picked those was for balance. All of Macedons unit being elite status wouldn't be good for the game eh?
About the Spartans, it depends which time we're talking about here. Thebans beating the Spartans didn't had much to do with having better Hoplites.
Again we need to know the time periods in which we are placing the different factions and what the real faction is. Depending on that there might not even have been Thureophorai.
About the Spartans, it depends which time we're talking about here. Thebans beating the Spartans didn't had much to do with having better Hoplites.
Again we need to know the time periods in which we are placing the different factions and what the real faction is. Depending on that there might not even have been Thureophorai.
Phalanx300 said:
It was based on the Spartan tactics and positioning being outdated and flawed compared to the Thebans. As far as being better hoplites, it's irrelevant because the Thebans were skilled enough and the Spartans were ignorant enough for the Thebans to completely reverse Sparta's fortunes by beating them in two battles.
I assume it's going to be a Hellenistic era Greece/Macedon if they are being matched against Marian Romans. Anywho, what are the units for Marian Romans gonna be?
Gallic bowmen/archer, Roman Legionary, Roman Praetorian, Gallic Cavalry?
Phalanx300
Banned
Thebans had everyone pushing (probably also non-hoplites). If anything that battle against the Thebans prooves the skill of the Spartan Phalanx. Where 8 rank deep of men were able to hold of more then double Thebans pushing. And even managing to push them back on occasion!
Not saying the Spartans had better tactics, they didn't. They were superior Hoplites though. Seeing that was what they were training for their whole live, not a big suprise.
Actually heard from this researcher that the Spartans tried countermeasures but those were stopped by Theban cavalry assaults. Again Thebans had better tactics but people never give the Spartans any credit.
Not saying the Spartans had better tactics, they didn't. They were superior Hoplites though. Seeing that was what they were training for their whole live, not a big suprise.
Actually heard from this researcher that the Spartans tried countermeasures but those were stopped by Theban cavalry assaults. Again Thebans had better tactics but people never give the Spartans any credit.
Phalanx300 said:
No, the line broke pretty quickly and the King of Sparta died in the first battle in which this occurred. The only thing I'll give them credit is for not routing after having their king killed and their flank crushed. Thebans gets more respect for this from me because in actuality, who cared about the Spartans during that period? No one probably because the Thebans went from being virtually being a subject state of Sparta to almost destroying Sparta's power and becoming the key city state. Other then that, Philip II was Epaminondas pupil, which mean the tactics the Thebans used were repeated by him and Alexander.
Phalanx300
Banned
I don't think the line broke immediately. Reason the Spartans didn't rout immediately was to regain the body of the king probably. Spartan kings always fought in the front rank. I think they did this by also pushing the Thebans back at one point. However the Thebans had the better tactics yes.
True. Anywho, source references. Also, I advise replacing Britain Celts with Celtoiberians, who stand out more as a faction with their falcatas and shields.Phalanx300 said:
Celts and Iberians.
Only Roman picture. If going by the Marian reforms, the Gladius Hispaniensis should be a cut and stab weapon(I think it's the longest of the Gladii) meaning it's made to stab and cut with. Armors around this period are Lorica Hamata(Greek Style), Lorica Squamata, and breastplates. Main helm used is Montefortino with Apulo/Pseudo Corinthians and Attics being used by officers and generals.
Phalanx300
Banned
Some fine pictures! Really shows how terrifying it must have been to face the Macedonian Phalanx.
Late Macedonian Bronze Shield
Greece
Peltast
Hoplite
Thorakitai
Peltast
Mr Mohawk
Hmm...
Well I'm going to use Llews mod as a base, after he gave me permission.
So, a slight rework of the Romans and Gauls are in order, and then I think I want to do Greeks next.
Thanks for the pictures Gothic Knight, those will help me when it comes to making them.
Well I'm going to use Llews mod as a base, after he gave me permission.
So, a slight rework of the Romans and Gauls are in order, and then I think I want to do Greeks next.
Thanks for the pictures Gothic Knight, those will help me when it comes to making them.
Kazzan said:
Huh? You mean a Linothorax? That type of armor was used by nearly every type of unit in Greece, from horsemen to hoplites.
Why? He doesn't even have a team to mod with.
Mr Mohawk
Kazzan said:Slayton said:
What if there is no progress?
The progress is a lie!
Kazzan is right, there is no progress at the moment :3
Just snooping around getting as much stuff as I can before I can actually start. I created this thread to see the interest.
Slayton said:
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