Persistent World 4.5.1 - download and general discussion

[Pisatel]

Can anyone tell how i can:
1) Use engineer options.
2) Craft something

 

[Demonhun]

If anyone finds a way how to raise sunk ships again pls post XD

 

[Fenix_120]

The idea of the bridges is awesome but in practice some noob runs up and burns em all for no reason at all other than to hurt the games economy and/or because they think its funny.


The idea of the boats is totally awesome and you did a good job of implementing them into the mod but in practice some noob sinks them all for no reason at all other than to hurt the games economy and/or because they think its funny.


If a faction ( lets say blue team) "captures" all of the castles in the game, then no one else can become a different faction other than blue until the server is reset, this is a simple fix you could do, add a menu that lets you change from one faction to the next (give it something like a two minute cool down and the ability for a factions leader to permanently boot anyone from the faction)


In addition to fixing this bug this will add two things that commonly happened in the real  medieval world to the mod.

1: it allows two smaller factions to merge into a larger one. (say Mongols and Huns merge into the Mongolian Huns so they can take on the powerful French faction!)


2: it allows Betrayals, in many battles less loyal (IE peasants and mercs) troops would switch sides half way through the battle( sometimes more than one time in a single battle!)


Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see the finished project!

 

[SiliconGold]

my thoughts so far:
-there should be unlimited supply of some ****ty hatchets - right now server tends to run out of tools
-real woodaxes could be moved into castles than
-we need better guide how things works (crafting, changing classes, etc), and map with marked important locations
-map travel can't depend only on ships
-I couldn't buy clothes as serf - is it restricted to other classes?
-trees should be less durable - right now it takes forever to cut one down, which lead to
    a: wood isn't resource that can (temporary, in some area) deplete, so no reason to ride other factions for more wood
    b: it takes forever to get logs
-no resource (iron) should be finite IMO - persistence is better
-any way to scroll through scoreboard?

I like these suggestions, all constructive.

As a more general piece of advice for future builds: Work on the positioning of important things like weapons, trainers, etc. Right now there's very little consistency or obvious markings, making things very hard to find or even remember where it was once you found it. Maybe there are conscription stations in the courtyard of every castle that'd be easy to spot (which make sense, you want conscripts, think of it as advertisement).

Also, I personally think there are a couple fundamental things that shouldn't have a cost associated with them. It makes it extremely difficult early on especially if you lose money. Once you go below the amount required for a woodcutting axe you're hosed unless you resort to murdering everyone you see.

 

[CalenLoki]

If a faction ( lets say blue team) "captures" all of the castles in the game, then no one else can become a different faction other than blue until the server is reset, this is a simple fix you could do, add a menu that lets you change from one faction to the next (give it something like a two minute cool down and the ability for a factions leader to permanently boot anyone from the faction)


In addition to fixing this bug this will add two things that commonly happened in the real  medieval world to the mod.

1: it allows two smaller factions to merge into a larger one. (say Mongols and Huns merge into the Mongolian Huns so they can take on the powerful French faction!)


2: it allows Betrayals, in many battles less loyal (IE peasants and mercs) troops would switch sides half way through the battle( sometimes more than one time in a single battle!)

Was about to post the same: it's good that you need to join some military faction to train as soldier, but we should be able to leave that faction.
Personally I would make learning profession separate from joining faction. i.e. one prop to change faction (join faction that owns that castle), and separate set of props for changing classes. This way:
-factions can earn by letting strangers train in their castle (taxing those who want to)
-send their troops to another castle for training (i.e. if in each castle there is different set of class props)
-reason to guard their castles (unless they want to let everyone train there for free)
-reason to siege and capture "better" castles

EDIT: startup log. mod works fine.

Spoiler

 

[Citizen_Kane]

SQUEAL! The only thing is is that Im afraid people will lose the RP as doctors D: *I was the first one to start RPing as a doctor on RCC* Last time I saw someone heal a paitent they used magic....

 

[bloodreaver]

Was about to post the same: it's good that you need to join some military faction to train as soldier, but we should be able to leave that faction.

You have to become a serf again, only way to do this is using the pitchfork at the Church.


What I would like is a recipie book for the weapons, I managed to make a bow with a wooden pole and a battle axe with a iron bar. But even with 4 iron bars, I still didn't have the right resources to make any swords

 

[Pisatel]

Ok i played a mod for 3 hours and now i can say this:
Its goddamnit great. For alpha its awesome i would say, cause its really playable even in present state.
Now suggestions.

1) As a was posted before make it so faction joining is seperate from training.
It can work like this - in every castle there are places to train for different ways(as its like now). But also make some uncapturable castle(neutral one) where you can join each faction(so factions canot be destroyed at all).
2) Ship reparing is too complicated (requires too many wood) - decrease the amount of wood you need to repair the ship.
3) Make some minor and cheap weapons like arming sword unlimited to buy - so it doesnt go out of stock.

PS: didnt get the crafting system yes so canot give any suggestions.

 

[Tirok]

Vornne, I love you. If only I was able to play right now 

 

[CalenLoki]

It can work like this - in every castle there are places to train for different ways(as its like now). But also make some uncapturable castle(neutral one) where you can join each faction(so factions canot be destroyed at all).

Yes!

3) Make some minor and cheap weapons like arming sword unlimited to buy - so it doesnt go out of stock.

Arming sword isn't "cheap weapon". wooden club is.

Played another few minutes, and found bug. It's easy to replicate:
1.chop single stick with your knife
2.go to stick's selling point
3.throw stick
4.without picking it up use selling prop
5.pick up stick
repeat 3-5 as long as you want
it's the same bug as in PW WAR - you can't make trowing weapon that can be sold, because prop recognize empty quiver as item, and buys it from you.


btw. how to make woodaxe?

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

Civillians and serfs shouldn't drop money bagss. that defeats the purpose of RP robbing and also gives brigands excuses to shoot any person they see.

 

[Jean_a_Normandie]

This is retarded. I was on this today, and I asked a simple question. Then Comrade_Obama said "10,000 bounty on Debatable(me)" Then, everyone in the tavern I was in started killing me. I told them to stop, and asked why I had a bounty. Then Andras(who was killing me) said "IDK, IDC" AND KILLED ME!!! I asked over chat after I respawned why I had a bounty. Then Comrade_Obama said "For asking a dumb question and spamming the chat." Let me ask YOU. Is saying "How do you turn sticks into other wooden things?" spamming or dumb? This is so stupid. I want Comrade_Obama banned. Because after I died, he issued ANOTHER bounty on me.

 

[Tirok]

That's pretty bad...


And yeah, serfs probably wouldn't have money to drop anyway... plus if you want a civs money, killing them should not give you any, as a discouragment.

 

[zacxx]

anyway, i think that you need to add a book on how to make wepons and what resources are needed

 

[Vornne]

Mega post incoming...

NLR for example wont work on this mod since you respawn at your base which also means only 1 faction can have 1 base, whites are stuck to one area etc

Actually, 1 faction can own all the castles, which means players in it will spawn at a random owned castle.

Played it, and it was quite nice, but some people got money with lightning speed... someone had 157 million denars...

now its very nice but please, do something with that f*icking invisibility, stupid randomers going around and hiting everyone with poisoned dagger

Admins: usage of the tools is shown in the server log, so either the server owner could set rules about using them, or maybe an option to disable specific tools from the server console could be added. If an admin agent dies with millions, they will drop a loot bag with a huge amount of money: using "Fade a player out" on yourself will mean no loot bag (or items dropped), so it can be used to remove cheated things from the game. There isn't a way to remove money from your player to start playing normally again, except maybe drowning in the deep sea.

If a boat sinks, does it respawn again?

No, I haven't bothered to add that sort of thing yet; I thought about it, but couldn't decide what to do about ships sunk in deep water, or when all ships are off the bank with nobody on them.

you start as a serf and immediately get killed by outlaws on horses with better armor and weapon than you, and probably better stats
You respawn, try again, and get killed. Again.

Your faction needs to band together and protect its serfs then, since outlaw classes are very outmatched by faction trained soldiers.

my thoughts so far:
-there should be unlimited supply of some ****ty hatchets - right now server tends to run out of tools

What about making a default spawn item for peasants that works better for wood cutting? The default items are not sellable anywhere, to avoid various forms of cheating.

-map travel can't depend only on ships

That's up to the scene maker; I designed this test scene to make ships very useful.

-I couldn't buy clothes as serf - is it restricted to other classes?

Yes, serfs have very low strength, and maybe I should lower the requirements of more armors so they have a wider variety; the idea behind it was to ensure serfs couldn't wear nice looking clothes, to be recognisable.

-trees should be less durable - right now it takes forever to cut one down, which lead to
    a: wood isn't resource that can (temporary, in some area) deplete, so no reason to ride other factions for more wood
    b: it takes forever to get logs

Are you using a serf class with a woodcutting axe? The factors that affect how fast you can harvest things: labouring skill (higher is faster), weapon class (only the mining pick and woodcutting axe are in the correct classes), for some resources swing direction (trees cut a bit faster with side swings), and then the base damage dealt; if it's still taking too long, get a team of serfs to all cut the same tree. Trees should regrow after 1 hour, at the moment; I just guessed that value, so it might need tweaking.

-any way to scroll through scoreboard?

It should work like native, with the scroll wheel; I haven't been able to test it yet, since two players will never fill up a list.

If a faction ( lets say blue team) "captures" all of the castles in the game, then no one else can become a different faction other than blue until the server is reset, this is a simple fix you could do, add a menu that lets you change from one faction to the next (give it something like a two minute cool down and the ability for a factions leader to permanently boot anyone from the faction)
In addition to fixing this bug this will add two things that commonly happened in the real  medieval world to the mod.
1: it allows two smaller factions to merge into a larger one. (say Mongols and Huns merge into the Mongolian Huns so they can take on the powerful French faction!)
2: it allows Betrayals, in many battles less loyal (IE peasants and mercs) troops would switch sides half way through the battle( sometimes more than one time in a single battle!)

I wanted to encourage players to work in teams (factions), so I don't think making faction changing or betrayal easy is the way to go. If you want to change, you need to "detrain" as a peasant (actually any commoner class, but I only added one to the scene), then join your new faction.

Was about to post the same: it's good that you need to join some military faction to train as soldier, but we should be able to leave that faction.
Personally I would make learning profession separate from joining faction. i.e. one prop to change faction (join faction that owns that castle), and separate set of props for changing classes. This way:
-factions can earn by letting strangers train in their castle (taxing those who want to)
-send their troops to another castle for training (i.e. if in each castle there is different set of class props)
-reason to guard their castles (unless they want to let everyone train there for free)
-reason to siege and capture "better" castles

Originally they were combined because respawning in place was very complicated, with lots of little annoyances, so I wanted to keep respawning to a minimum (you need to respawn to get a new troop, and I didn't know how to redraw heraldry on a live agent then). I also wanted to allow the scene maker to specify what each faction can train: so peasants and outlaws can never get the man at arms class, and the scene maker can decide one castle doesn't get doctors, or whatever. The reason to capture better castles is there - I don't know what you mean by that.

EDIT: startup log. mod works fine.

Strange it never showed for me, but that's probably why I couldn't seem to make the bushes any easier to hit... I'll fix it.

It can work like this - in every castle there are places to train for different ways(as its like now). But also make some uncapturable castle(neutral one) where you can join each faction(so factions canot be destroyed at all).

I was thinking of adding training stations for mercanary classes in various areas for when a faction has no castles; they would have lower stats overall than the normal faction troops to encourage owning and protecting a castle.

2) Ship reparing is too complicated (requires too many wood) - decrease the amount of wood you need to repair the ship.

Hmm, maybe... the idea is not for you to have your own personal ship, easily repairable by one player, but for it to be controlled and maintained by a group of players.

Played another few minutes, and found bug. It's easy to replicate:
~
it's the same bug as in PW WAR - you can't make trowing weapon that can be sold, because prop recognize empty quiver as item, and buys it from you.

Ok thanks, I might be able to fix that; otherwise just make the stick a one handed weapon only. Ranged weapons are unbelieveably annoying to work with in this sort of mod - all sorts of little special cases.

btw. how to make woodaxe?

1 small iron bar, 1 wood pole (converted from branch at wood processing station), and at least 2 engineering skill (not serf). I wondered about making an in game guide to what resources are required to craft things, but I thought I'd try without it for a start, so players can discover and share among themselves; maybe for some of the basic items it should be given. There are only a few resource types at the moment, so it shouldn't take much trial and error; basically, if it has wooden part it should require a stick or a wooden pole, depending on length, and the same with the iron part - to make a 2 short iron bars into an iron bar, use the furnace when standing on the right side and weidling one of that item, use the left side to split iron bars into 2 of the smaller type.

Civillians and serfs shouldn't drop money bagss. that defeats the purpose of RP robbing and also gives brigands excuses to shoot any person they see.

Why shouldn't they drop loot bags? They are people, just the same... as I said at the start, this is not really designed for friendly, peaceable RP: rather for a dangerous, competitive world where you have to band together to survive. My opinion: some of the reasons the first versions of PW degenerated into "randoming" so easily was that the teams / factions didn't really have many reasons to band together, and that the brigand class had such high stats, encouraging players to go it alone, murdering other random players for fun. So, I won't be changing to a "peaceful RP" game mod right away - give the combat and teamwork mode a decent chance to see if it works, first. Suggestions are welcome, as long as you at least try to keep within the spirit of the game mode .

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

The Suspicious Brotherhood will be eliminating brigands for now, then.

 

[reyman]

this is too tedious, wierd, confusing, dumb, and i get very lost.. but i like the concept.. played it today and got tired of just riding around and doing nothing.

 

[Vornne]

So, do people think that the game mode based on fighting between factions will work, and be fun? Are there features that seem useless, or to not work out in practice like they seem to be intended? Just remember that going alone is supposed to be much harder.

Another thing I forgot to fix: to craft a mining pick requires 1 long iron bar, and no wood; this is because I changed the mesh used very recently and forgot to update the crafting information to make sense.

Some comments I missed:

And yeah, serfs probably wouldn't have money to drop anyway... plus if you want a civs money, killing them should not give you any, as a discouragment.

You only lose 10 - 20% of gold on death, and if you are team killed (by someone in the same faction) you don't drop a loot bag or lose gold. It might be good to add an option for server hosters to make killing commoners always a team kill; that way the "peaceful RP" servers can discourage killing peasants, and the more battle oriented servers can leave it realistic.

also i think that class changing things should be lowered abit, it feels like 30seconds to change class.
same for resting lower it abit? imagine when someone starts kicking you etc :/ it will get abit annoying
for a deathmatch mode it should be 15seconds tops

Training time is fairly long to encourage people to specialize in one class and work with other players, rather than changing to whatever you need at the time. You only have to train once, and then when you die or your client crashes, it will spawn you as the saved troop class; though if the server crashes or the map is restarted, everything is reset. If you are getting attacked while training, get a buddy to protect you, and then do the same for him.

it needs a on off button same for the admin armour, this way we can use invisiblity to watch players acused of randoming and go into admin armour to survive an attack from a randomer.
but you cant switch them off which means its not very effective in the long term

The admin tools are very basic, and not really a priority; I just quickly added a few random things that seemed simple, and will probably expand them later.

also what happened to the TW? cant we use them as a way to arrest outlaws?

This game mode was started before the town watch existed, but factions can still guard a town and deal with outlaws, if they want.

Also, I personally think there are a couple fundamental things that shouldn't have a cost associated with them. It makes it extremely difficult early on especially if you lose money. Once you go below the amount required for a woodcutting axe you're hosed unless you resort to murdering everyone you see.

There are a few bushes around that sticks can be cut from with no particular skill or weapon, though you don't get much money that way, and they are a bit hard to hit due to a bug CalenLoki pointed out.

Remember, if you get script errors or see other obviously buggy things: report them to me.

 

[Azrayel]

I don't believe any of this is real; but it's March not April first.

 

[Azrayel]

The only reason you'd think this discourages peaceful RP is if you say "peaceful RP" like you'd say "tape-worm"  This just makes it less about *****ing and more about fun!