Perisno 0.99 - The Main Thread (HF18 - 27.Mar.2020)

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WolfWitness

Sergeant Knight
The new battle AI is really nice. Though when comes to infantry, two groups of opposing infantry will sometimes "dance" back and forth without attacking each other. I also like the fact troops make tactical retreats to regroup.

Will the Adventurer's Guild bugs and Freelancer issues be addressed in a future patch or are they just too buggy to fix? I know you can still play them if they're enabled, but I'm just wondering if they'll be less risky to use in the future.
 

Leonion

Master Knight
WolfWitness said:
Will the Adventurer's Guild bugs and Freelancer issues be addressed in a future patch or are they just too buggy to fix?
Well, personally I'm not touching either of them 'cause I have 0 interest in them and I don't want to waste my time fixing useless features other people coded.

Infantry is... yeah. I tried to fix it but it's a hopeless case. I can't find the wrong place in the current code so my only option is to rewrite everything from scratch and it's just not worth it.
Especially taking into account the fact that infantry inevitably becomes more and more useless on larger maps (and can only be effective on maps like the smallest option PoP offers) and I seem to be the only person today who prefers small maps.
 

WolfWitness

Sergeant Knight
Fair enough on the Guild quests and Freelancer, I can distinctly remember the guild quests always seemed to bug out on me in someway or the other in the various versions of Perisno I've played with it included.

As for the infantry, well at least it's not too game breaking. I'll just pretend it's a military tradition/custom unique to Perisno or something.  :iamamoron:
 

T.L.S.

Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
Especially taking into account the fact that infantry inevitably becomes more and more useless on larger maps (and can only be effective on maps like the smallest option PoP offers) and I seem to be the only person today who prefers small maps.
Useless? No. But you spending more time micromanaging 4 infantry and 2 ranged groups than actually fighting yourself (with footsoldiers only army)...
 

Leonion

Master Knight
On large maps infantry on one side is always hugely disadvantaged because of reinforcement waves mechanics.
While cavalry can cross the map pretty fast and archers don't need to cross much to see their targets and open fire, infantry actually has to make all the way to the enemy while their allies are already fighting them.
If infantry keeps regrouping every time, it's bad because it often turns into a loop: it barely makes it to your ranks when a new RW spawns and it starts backing up again.
If infantry doesn't regroup, it's bad because they just get slaughtered in small batches.
If infantry moves slowly, shields up, it's bad, it gives enemies more time.
If infantry moves fast, shields down, it's bad because it opens up to your archers' fire.
If infantry gets distracted on their way (e.g. by you lancing them), it's bad because they lose time.
If infantry doesn't get distracted by anything and moves persistently towards your archers, it's bad because this anything can safely harrass them.
Infantry and large maps just don't work together no matter what.
There is no solution to that and, moreover, it more than anything encourages the slow, boring and grindy gameplay when you just sit at your starting point and wait for enemies to come at you. Because the larger the map is, the more this strategy disadvantages your opponents (while merry CHAAAAAARGE makes your own situation worse).
 

Ahmedinejad

Recruit
Leonion said:
WolfWitness said:
Will the Adventurer's Guild bugs and Freelancer issues be addressed in a future patch or are they just too buggy to fix?
Well, personally I'm not touching either of them 'cause I have 0 interest in them and I don't want to waste my time fixing useless features other people coded.

Infantry is... yeah. I tried to fix it but it's a hopeless case. I can't find the wrong place in the current code so my only option is to rewrite everything from scratch and it's just not worth it.
Especially taking into account the fact that infantry inevitably becomes more and more useless on larger maps (and can only be effective on maps like the smallest option PoP offers) and I seem to be the only person today who prefers small maps.
Pardon me for being dumb and out of the loop but you can still recruit Freelancers and Mercenaries right? Is the bug isolated to quests or did the guild locations get removed? I used to always use Freelancers as emergency garrison units.
Leonion said:
On large maps infantry on one side is always hugely disadvantaged because of reinforcement waves mechanics.
While cavalry can cross the map pretty fast and archers don't need to cross much to see their targets and open fire, infantry actually has to make all the way to the enemy while their allies are already fighting them.
If infantry keeps regrouping every time, it's bad because it often turns into a loop: it barely makes it to your ranks when a new RW spawns and it starts backing up again.
If infantry doesn't regroup, it's bad because they just get slaughtered in small batches.
If infantry moves slowly, shields up, it's bad, it gives enemies more time.
If infantry moves fast, shields down, it's bad because it opens up to your archers' fire.
If infantry gets distracted on their way (e.g. by you lancing them), it's bad because they lose time.
If infantry doesn't get distracted by anything and moves persistently towards your archers, it's bad because this anything can safely harrass them.
Infantry and large maps just don't work together no matter what.
There is no solution to that and, moreover, it more than anything encourages the slow, boring and grindy gameplay when you just sit at your starting point and wait for enemies to come at you. Because the larger the map is, the more this strategy disadvantages your opponents (while merry CHAAAAAARGE makes your own situation worse).
Yeah I noticed infantry is a little underpowered mainly because of how powerful cavalry is. (Archers are also powerful but shields can somewhat counter this, but heavy cav and archers combined are a pain for infantry in open battles)
 

Roberto3371

Sergeant
Did you do something to the trading in this new build? Towns and villages used to produce certain goods and often for cheap e.g silk in elven lands, now that no longer seems to be the case, was this intentional?
 

Leonion

Master Knight
Ahmedinejad said:
Pardon me for being dumb and out of the loop but you can still recruit Freelancers and Mercenaries right? Is the bug isolated to quests or did the guild locations get removed? I used to always use Freelancers as emergency garrison units.
It's hardly being dumb because while there is 1 "THE Freelancer mode" (enlisting in a lord's army - the one that is disabled by default in 0.99) used in many modules, Perisno also has 2 more "freelancers" (Freelancer troops and freelancing as a merc for a kingdom), so yeah, the usage of this word can be very confusing in Warband.

Ahmedinejad said:
Yeah I noticed infantry is a little underpowered mainly because of how powerful cavalry is.
Well, it least the formAI fixes that.  :smile:
Since while infantry making formations is less effective against archers, it's at least very good against cavalry (which reminds me that I should probably decrease the cavalry's upkeep a bit now).

Roberto3371 said:
Did you do something to the trading in this new build?
Yes, and it is mentioned in the changelog.
What locations produce what has been mostly unchanged since Native (and what has been changed has often been changed incorrectly with an unrelated local variable used instead of parties' IDs so it never worked in the game) so now it was finally edited with Perisno geography and cultures in mind.
 

Roberto3371

Sergeant
You do understand how trading works though right? With a trade skill of 10 you could barely squeeze a profit as it was, this was the only thing keeping that path viable in any sense. Perisno is a real pain for making money it only seems to favor a very strict path of a raiding/warlord.
 

Sarin

Master Knight
Roberto3371 said:
You do understand how trading works though right? With a trade skill of 10 you could barely squeeze a profit as it was, this was the only thing keeping that path viable in any sense. Perisno is a real pain for making money it only seems to favor a very strict path of a raiding/warlord.

Eh, no. The best profit you can make is early game tournaments, investing the money in enterprises and landowning. It quickly balloons up.
 

arduus

Knight at Arms
If you need easy money, go to Vinica or Voldeberg and talk to the lord and ask for a job. He will send you to destroy a wandering criminal/snow crawler camp. It is not hard if you have equipped well your companions. You get 3500 aurum, +4 relation with the lord and 7000 exp. Wait a day and ask the lord again, he will give you the same quest.

PS: sometimes the lord of Vinica can stop giving the quest, because the camp is formed east of the town, go to Lesbere and ask Count Calarius.
 

Roberto3371

Sergeant
arduus said:
If you need easy money, go to Vinica or Voldeberg and talk to the lord and ask for a job. He will send you to destroy a wandering criminal/snow crawler camp. It is not hard if you have equipped well your companions. You get 3500 aurum, +4 relation with the lord and 7000 exp. Wait a day and ask the lord again, he will give you the same quest.

PS: sometimes the lord of Vinica can stop giving the quest, because the camp is formed east of the town, go to Lesbere and ask Count Calarius.

It's not about not knowing how to make money it's about the viability of certain paths, if you were competing for the title of top mods for warband it would probably fall down to Perisno, Pendor, or Floris Now Pendor is doable from a multitude of paths with good balance from start to finish whereas Perisno suffers from a lot of having to find an exploit somewhere because the base game isn't very well balanced in many areas. Despite that it's an incredible mod with a lot to offer the larger battles feel a lot more epic than in Pendor or Floris for instance. I realise there is a certain level of get good for any of this I would like to point out in this case that when it comes to trade it really feels like little effort has gone into considering trade routes with an eye to balancing based on trade skill, I'll admit very few mods to warband do this well But for instance there should be dwarven trade centers where the iron is dirt cheap because it's so plentiful and somewhere else where it sells really well due to scarcity, someone with trade skill of 6-10 should be easily able to make a profit, what they should need to worry about is how to get goods from A-B without ending up at the bottom of the C as opposed to there being very few to no recognizable routes.
 

Leonion

Master Knight
Roberto3371 said:
You do understand how trading works though right?
You do understand that only the locations changed?
So, like, you used to buy X in Galwe and sell it in Forniron and now you'll just have to buy it in Sut and sell it in Khul Vara.

Roberto3371 said:
Perisno is a real pain for making money it only seems to favor a very strict path of a raiding/warlord.
Yeah, good luck raiding villages and sacking towns with the honor penalty it "rewards" you with.  :smile:
Also, "pain"? Please, Perisno is one of the most generous mods when it comes to making money. There are so many ways to make them you can be swimming in them like Scrooge McDuck in no time.
Any experienced Perisno player will confirm it.

Roberto3371 said:
Did you just mention Pendor in the money-making discussion?
Because while I personally consider it the best Warband mod, money is nowhere near as abundant in it as it is in Perisno.
 

Roberto3371

Sergeant
I've played both these mods extensively, in Pendor troop upgrade and upkeep costs are significantly lower (Barring hero adventurers or mercenary cavalry), while it doesn't have the ability to invest through landlords It has never felt as much of a grind to get things rolling.  I never raid villages or sack towns I was going with player guides on that one, apparently it was hugely rewarding in Perisno I guess that was changed. So I spent a couple of weeks wandering around checking out the towns and all I could see was that the old trade opportunities had seemed to disappear, apparently they are just in different places now so I'll go and learn it again.
 

arduus

Knight at Arms
Well, it depends who you ask which mods are top mods, I would choose Perisno, AD 1257 and 12th for the top. But I can understand why you feel frustrated, some people like to roleplay as merchant or make profit buying and selling stuff on their adventures. I will see myself out before I start attacking Pendor.
 

Roberto3371

Sergeant
arduus said:
Well, it depends who you ask which mods are top mods, I would choose Perisno, AD 1257 and 12th for the top. But I can understand why you feel frustrated, some people like to roleplay as merchant or make profit buying and selling stuff on their adventures. I will see myself out before I start attacking Pendor.

Fair enough it's highly subjective on what the top mods are and each to their own.
 

Leonion

Master Knight
Roberto3371 said:
while it doesn't have the ability to invest through landlords
Also in Pendor:
- income from enterprises is smaller;
- income from fiefs is smaller;
- no profitable animal hunting;
- no "donations" from friendly lords and guildmasters;
- looting is less effective;
- quests are worse (there is no distance limit, so you'll be often asked to move cattle from Cez to Ravenstern and you'll most likely just ignore such requests);
- no foraging skill (or did they add it in the last versions?) which saves a lot of money in the long run;
- when you rescue soldiers after defeating an enemy party, the "juiciest" once (level 40+) just vanish, in Perisno they're usually given to you, either as recruits or as prisoners (that you can sell later);
- very few blunt weapons and very few troops armed with blunt weapons (and all of them are ultra-rare), unlike Perisno where we have a ton of both + "hired" troops (with free equipment!), so even despite 50% knockout chance prisoner-taking potential is huge;
- much smaller prisoner capacity;
- max leadership is 10, not 15 (although in Perisno it's 4% per point since 0.99);
- merc troops are seriously overpriced (iirc 50% upkeep multiplier), in Perisno there is no such penalty;

arduus said:
I can understand why you feel frustrated, some people like to roleplay as merchant or make profit buying and selling stuff on their adventures
Frankly, I don't, the game's called "Warband" after all, not "Merchantband" or something.
It's like playing The Sims and complaining that the fights are boring, you can't loot enemies and conquer neighbors.
 

Roberto3371

Sergeant
And there you have it, if you criticise an aspect eventually someone will bring out the 'it's a war game' line. It's got trading in it dude and quite a lot of emphasis on economy if you weren't bothering about it then get rid of things like losing money if you're some distance from your enterprises. Maybe get less cranky about feedback.
 

Sarin

Master Knight
Roberto3371 said:
And there you have it, if you criticise an aspect eventually someone will bring out the 'it's a war game' line. It's got trading in it dude and quite a lot of emphasis on economy if you weren't bothering about it then get rid of things like losing money if you're some distance from your enterprises. Maybe get less cranky about feedback.

You can run a trade caravan if you want. You'll just need to spend some time scouting the profitable routes. That hasn't changed. But frankly, it's boring.

Tournaments are a way to go. With 150 in every proficiency, which is easily trainable, you can win most tourneys if you have any skill. Some ranged-heavy tournaments are bit about luck so you might avoid those early on.
 
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