Perisno 0.9 - The Main Thread (HF6 - February 04, 2019, 08:10:15 PM)

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Leonion

Master Knight
Onestep said:
I mean, I thought it was interesting, given that I've never seen it happen before with the Zann, and there are several other threads on this very board on other, relatively unimportant topics, but if you're that annoyed or offended about it, feel free to lock/delete the thread. I'd do it myself, but I can't.
Seeing a pile of garbage on a street isn't a good reason to help it grow. :wink:
Stickied threads cover the majority of possible topics ("The main thread" alone can be used for virtually any Perisno-related messages) and they should be used for such.
Only discussion threads (favorite faction, favorite unit, early game strategy tips, ctds etc.), submod / blog-like threads and similar topics that have a potential to grow big and have certain use for newcomers should exist separately.
And I'm trying to keep it that way.
Otherwise important threads get pushed to the 2nd/3rd/etc. pages and are buried under the pile of garbage threads.
 

Onestep

Recruit
Leonion said:
Onestep said:
I mean, I thought it was interesting, given that I've never seen it happen before with the Zann, and there are several other threads on this very board on other, relatively unimportant topics, but if you're that annoyed or offended about it, feel free to lock/delete the thread. I'd do it myself, but I can't.
Seeing a pile of garbage on a street isn't a good reason to help it grow. :wink:
Stickied threads cover the majority of possible topics ("The main thread" alone can be used for virtually any Perisno-related messages) and they should be used for such.
Only discussion threads (favorite faction, favorite unit, early game strategy tips, ctds etc.), submod / blog-like threads and similar topics that have a potential to grow big and have certain use for newcomers should exist separately.
And I'm trying to keep it that way.
Otherwise important threads get pushed to the 2nd/3rd/etc. pages and are buried under the pile of garbage threads.

That's fair enough.
 

nlinzer

Recruit
I know it is hard and will take awhile but it is kindoff ridicules that Giants have no female models. Women Giants are just humans they arn't even big. Sorry to be rude.
 

Leonion

Master Knight
Female giants are giant enough.
And the last thing the mod needs is yet another set of race/gender-specific & incompatible bodies & armor (which will be inevitable in case of their body modification).
 

Rail Tracer

Recruit
So is there a way to reset the Rebellion in Vinica quest? Vinica get taken by Zann shortly after I accepted the quest and the new lord emperor Zann actually doesn't give me any of the quest dialogue when I speak with him and I don't know who the old lord was actually, it was one of Elintor ones.
 

willyflare

Squire
Rail Tracer said:
So is there a way to reset the Rebellion in Vinica quest? Vinica get taken by Zann shortly after I accepted the quest and the new lord emperor Zann actually doesn't give me any of the quest dialogue when I speak with him and I don't know who the old lord was actually, it was one of Elintor ones.
The same thing happened in my quest and I can still talk to the new owner (one of the Zann lords) just fine, are you sure Vinica is given to Emperor Zann ?
Otherwise, try finding the old Elintoran owner, maybe it will work.
 

ketansat

Recruit
I am first time playing Perisno, joined kingdom of Tolranian, now level 35 and having first war against Elintor. But just after a short time in game, Elintor has taken 3 towns, 3 castles from Tolranian, easily, they keep winning almost every battle, even 1 vs 2 in number. And even in siege, 1400 Elintor easily take down Tolranian's castle with 1200 defenders. I am feeling so hopeless for Tolranian.
Then i check unit's stat:
- Tolranian's top tier troops level: 31-40
- Elintor's top tier troops level: 55-60
-Tolranian 6th tier melee units still have lower 1h and 2h proficiency than Elintor 5th archer unit.
Is there something else i missed about troops balance?
 

ketansat

Recruit
There is 1 thing i do not understand, it is why almost every wonderful mods such as Floris and Perisno usually mess up the troops tree upgradation. I mean, why our soldiers at first use 1h, then upgraded used 2h, or jump on to shooting arrow? This is very inconvenient when we set up the role for our men. For an example, i need shield infantry, so i want Kaikoth 6th tier unit: the Iron Guardsman, i recruit 64 of them, all did so well to reach tier 5, because they have shield, then boom they throw it all and yolo with 2h axe, at last only 1 of them survive to reach tier 6. Well i admit that make him become wiser and decide to pick up a shield again, but ... you see, i am very confuse  about why.
 

King Edric

Sergeant
you do know there's a custom merc troop tree and you can make them use anything you want? also no need to make a new thread for every question, theres a Q&A thread at the top of the page
 

ketansat

Recruit
yes i know we have custom troops tree, but i mean if it took you guys alot of time to create so many faction troops tree like that, it should be great to enjoy it, right? For example, like myself, i enjoy using Elf archers, Dwarf tanker, Giant berserker, and human cavalry. Or sometime enjoy fighting witht troops from 1 single faction. The thing is, it is very ridiculous, changing their proficience like that. In Floris expanded troop trees is really a mess, some unit just become a totally different unit when upgrade, with lower WP, lower skills point than before because he use another weapon.
 

Leonion

Master Knight
ketansat, first, as was said, don't start new threads just to comment on something, ask a question or post a suggestion. Use existing threads.

Second,
ketansat said:
Is there something else i missed about troops balance?
Since Perisno 0.8 factions simulate real world situation where some countries are better, some a worse, some are smaller, some are larger, some have stronger soldiers, some have weaker soldiers. It was done intentionally to create more difficulty options and make gameplay for different factions more different: from easy steamrolling to challenging survival.
All factions are balanced quality/upkeep-ratio wise (with the difficulty of obtaining and training also taken into account) and "total quality of reinforcements" wise (so it doesn't matter what culture a particular lord has, the strength of his army will be more or less the same), but while a Tolranian lord will bring 200 mediocre soldiers to a fight, an Elintoran lord will bring 100 good ones.

Third,
ketansat said:
The thing is, it is very ridiculous, changing their proficience like that.
Like how? Show me a single soldier in the entire mod whose upgrade has lower skills or weapon proficiencies or attributes than him.

ketansat said:
There is 1 thing i do not understand, it is why almost every wonderful mods such as Floris and Perisno usually mess up the troops tree upgradation. I mean, why our soldiers
You're speaking like it's a rule, but it's a rare exception.
Kaikoth upgrade path (1h+shield => 2h => 1h+shield) is the only case like that I can think of. Perisno and Maccavia also have "1h+shield => 2h or 1h+shield => 1h+shield" but that's just it. The only cases when a soldier in training switches his primary weapons back and forth throughout the course of his upgrades.
ketansat said:
at first use 1h, then upgraded used 2h, or jump on to shooting arrow?
Example?
And how on Earth do you expect troop TREES to grow and evolve from 1 single recruit without any change of equipment loadout whatsoever? 1 kind of unit per faction? Tolrania - only infantry with shields, Hakkon - only xbowmen, Valahir - only archers with 2h from tier 1 to tier 6?

And speaking of Kaikoth example - a dwarf during his training must master both 1h and 2h weapons. 1h and 2h WPs of all the dwarves from Kaikoth Miner to Kaikoth Mountain Warrior are the same. It's only for battle they're given particular weapons as dwarven military tradition dictates, but in free time they practice with both kinds of weapon. Only at the final step they become either Mountain Keepers or Iron Guardsmen and start slightly specializing in 1h or 2h.
Also, besides, from the perspective of mod development, when Kaikoth was created, Iron Guardsmen didn't even exist. High-tier dwarves switched to 2h weapons permanently, there were only Mountain Keepers. Then IGs were added but were unique "fief defenders" and only after a player asked us to make them trainable they were added to the troop tree. They're not a primary upgrade in dwarven military, but rather an alternative option, a less popular one among Kaikoth dwarves than Mountain Keepers. A "fine, fine, if you insist, keep your shield" sort of option. True Kaikoth dwarves chop enemies into pieces with large 2h axes, not hide behind shields.  :razz:
 

ketansat

Recruit
Leonion said:
ketansat, first, as was said, don't start new threads just to comment on something, ask a question or post a suggestion. Use existing threads.
ok sorry, next time i will.

Leonion said:
Since Perisno 0.8 factions simulate real world situation where some countries are better, some a worse, some are smaller, some are larger, some have stronger soldiers, some have weaker soldiers. It was done intentionally to create more difficulty options and make gameplay for different factions more different: from easy steamrolling to challenging survival.
All factions are balanced quality/upkeep-ratio wise (with the difficulty of obtaining and training also taken into account) and "total quality of reinforcements" wise (so it doesn't matter what culture a particular lord has, the strength of his army will be more or less the same), but while a Tolranian lord will bring 200 mediocre soldiers to a fight, an Elintoran lord will bring 100 good ones.

OK i get it, this is my first playthrough, and i am still struggling with it, so maybe my army is not strong enough to help Tolranian lords in battle. But i am still confusing, normally, in a large scale battle, both sides bring many lords, and some first waves will be full of top tier units, so in my case, Tolranian top tier army be easily destroyed because the gap in level. Therefore, it's nearly impossible for me to join them, when my army could only be a small portion. Especially in defending a siege, as i mentioned, Lesbere have 900 troops, with1 lord and me it is 1200 in total against 1400 Elintor, but the battle become a 1 side massacre. We losing the shooting phase, of course, but then in melee combat, Tolranian top tier melee units still be no match to Elintor archers.

Leonion said:
Like how? Show me a single soldier in the entire mod whose upgrade has lower skills or weapon proficiencies or attributes than him.

ah, sorry, this is from Floris mod, when soldiers upgrade from range unit to melee unit, its archery is down, not in Perisno.

Leonion said:
Example?
And how on Earth do you expect troop TREES to grow and evolve from 1 single recruit without any change of equipment loadout whatsoeve........True Kaikoth dwarves chop enemies into pieces with large 2h axes, not hide behind shields.  :razz:

no, what i want to say is switching weapon back and forth make it hard to use unit, for example, if you use 1 hand + shield at first and last tier, you should not change it in the upgrading process, like my case with kaikoth, especially changing at high tier cost ton of time and lost units for some of them to reach last tier.
 

JeenLeen

Recruit
I'm thinking of starting up a new game of Perisno, and I am contemplating how to build my relationship with the lesser factions, so that less random groups are harassing me or my lords.
From reading the Perisno wiki, I see several quests that let me get positive relationship with some factions.  Most give me a negative relationship with one of the major factions.

Does that low relationship matter?  If I plan to wipe out the Drachen eventually, do I care if I have -100 with them?  Does that impact my ability to get their lords to defect to my nation?

Also, I noticed that the <forget the actual name, but bounty hunters or something like that.  You can sell prisoners to them in the field> tend to get a lot of cool prisoners.  I like the idea of being able to fight and defeat them, plus having a good relationship with bandits.  I could do that by finding some bounty hunters fighting bandits and helping the bandits, right?  And then random bandits would stop attacking me?

---

Also, am I correct that (usually) the size of armies correlates to my character's level?
If I kept my personal level low, but managed to get some high-level companions, would that be a way to get good group skills but still keep enemy group sizes low overall?  (I'd probably use the cheat codes to get gold to hire high-level companions or to level up companions.)
 

willyflare

Squire
Ahh someone else who wants to be friends with the lesser factions! :grin:

I don't think the low relationship matters, if you want to wipe them all out at the end. Just don't make too many enemies at once.
Once a faction is wiped out, your relation will be reset to 0 anyway (after that it can only be lowered via quest completion like Illica Falki, Sidheton quest, or Kalrind/Ulthidir quest)

The issue is just that with low relationship with a faction, you cannot recruit/rescue their mid-high tier units from prisoner pools.

As for the bandits, yes, if you have good relationship with them (or any other lesser factions), they will not attack you or your lords or your caravans.

As for the size of armies, sorry, no idea. maybe someone else can help you.
 

JeenLeen

Recruit
I looked over the quests on the wiki, and it doesn't look like the order one does them (for getting positive relationship with minor factions, at least) matters.  Anyone with evidence to the contrary?
If I get a positive relationship with minor faction BEFORE starting my own faction, does that relationship carry forward to my faction?

Also, assuming I have the gold, can I still just pay off the major faction I've ticked off?
 

willyflare

Squire
JeenLeen said:
I looked over the quests on the wiki, and it doesn't look like the order one does them (for getting positive relationship with minor factions, at least) matters.  Anyone with evidence to the contrary?
If I get a positive relationship with minor faction BEFORE starting my own faction, does that relationship carry forward to my faction?

Also, assuming I have the gold, can I still just pay off the major faction I've ticked off?

Yeah the "order" of doing the quests doesn't matter, it's just that after a faction is defeated there's no way to gain/lose relationship anymore, except via those quests. Doing this after a faction is defeated will affect your ability to recruit the faction units later on.
For example, finishing the Sidheton quest will give you negative relationship with Elintor, and if Elintor is already defeated by the time you finished the quest, you will hardly be able to recruit Elintor troops from prisoner pools.
This, of course does not matter if you are planning to use lesser faction troops only.

In my experience, I started my faction purely by taking my first castle by myself, and the relationship with the lesser factions stayed the same (friendly).
I'm not sure if the same will happen if you secede from a kingdom, however.

You can pay off any major faction via any of its Lords that is friendly to you until a certain faction relationship threshold. ( -15 , I think?)
Any lower than that and it will depend on whether the ruler wants to make peace with you or not.
 

Dago Wolfrider

Sergeant Knight
Also, am I correct that (usually) the size of armies correlates to my character's level?

Lords' armies:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,36638.msg1212205.html#msg1212205

More generally:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://steamcommunity.com/app/48700/discussions/0/351660338726801904/&ved=2ahUKEwiaso2gr_ziAhUXilwKHfybAXoQFjABegQIAxAH&usg=AOvVaw2ihpsiwhK3ICNan17-HbhO

In other words, yes it does.
 

Dago Wolfrider

Sergeant Knight
ketansat said:
Leonion said:
ketansat, first, as was said, don't start new threads just to comment on something, ask a question or post a suggestion. Use existing threads.
ok sorry, next time i will.

Leonion said:
Since Perisno 0.8 factions simulate real world situation where some countries are better, some a worse, some are smaller, some are larger, some have stronger soldiers, some have weaker soldiers. It was done intentionally to create more difficulty options and make gameplay for different factions more different: from easy steamrolling to challenging survival.
All factions are balanced quality/upkeep-ratio wise (with the difficulty of obtaining and training also taken into account) and "total quality of reinforcements" wise (so it doesn't matter what culture a particular lord has, the strength of his army will be more or less the same), but while a Tolranian lord will bring 200 mediocre soldiers to a fight, an Elintoran lord will bring 100 good ones.

OK i get it, this is my first playthrough, and i am still struggling with it, so maybe my army is not strong enough to help Tolranian lords in battle. But i am still confusing, normally, in a large scale battle, both sides bring many lords, and some first waves will be full of top tier units, so in my case, Tolranian top tier army be easily destroyed because the gap in level. Therefore, it's nearly impossible for me to join them, when my army could only be a small portion. Especially in defending a siege, as i mentioned, Lesbere have 900 troops, with1 lord and me it is 1200 in total against 1400 Elintor, but the battle become a 1 side massacre. We losing the shooting phase, of course, but then in melee combat, Tolranian top tier melee units still be no match to Elintor archers.

Leonion said:
Like how? Show me a single soldier in the entire mod whose upgrade has lower skills or weapon proficiencies or attributes than him.

ah, sorry, this is from Floris mod, when soldiers upgrade from range unit to melee unit, its archery is down, not in Perisno.

Leonion said:
Example?
And how on Earth do you expect troop TREES to grow and evolve from 1 single recruit without any change of equipment loadout whatsoeve........True Kaikoth dwarves chop enemies into pieces with large 2h axes, not hide behind shields.  :razz:

no, what i want to say is switching weapon back and forth make it hard to use unit, for example, if you use 1 hand + shield at first and last tier, you should not change it in the upgrading process, like my case with kaikoth, especially changing at high tier cost ton of time and lost units for some of them to reach last tier.

Personal experience with 0.9: Tolrania is a survival kind of faction at the beginning and if things go really bad its future can be quite short. Its best option is white peacing with Elintor as soon as possible and then attack Maccavia while it is fighting Valahir or Drachen. For now you should focus on rescuing your captured lords and attacking their caravan or minor parties. By the way, you know that there is the troop trees' function in the game? Check the Report section.
 

ketansat

Recruit
Dago Wolfrider said:
Personal experience with 0.9: Tolrania is a survival kind of faction at the beginning and if things go really bad its future can be quite short. Its best option is white peacing with Elintor as soon as possible and then attack Maccavia while it is fighting Valahir or Drachen. For now you should focus on rescuing your captured lords and attacking their caravan or minor parties. By the way, you know that there is the troop trees' function in the game? Check the Report section.

Thanks, my army is strong enough now and i've just taken back all castles and 1 town Vinica from Elintor for Tolrania. Luckily, Zann came just in time and because almost all Tolranian's original lands captured by Elintor, i can use their help to kick those elf's ass :smile:)

I don't know if it is intended or just my playthrough, but this Elintor is so so so hostile, their wars against Tolrania seem to last forever, even though i captures half of their lords, they still do not want peace. This current war had begun before 2 other wars against Zann and Maccavia, and last until now when the truce with those 2 factions have expired already. Since i joined Tolranian wars, I've really had no peaceful time to do quests, only the Dueler one finished.
 
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