Pentagon to allow Women into frontline combat by 2016
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Mage246
Dodes said:
It's a pity the elves are such incompetent managers - otherwise they could take control of the means of production and share equally in the Christmas profits. Er, wait, hold on. Santa doesn't actually get paid for his toys, does he? There's no store to order from or even a website, and he's definitely not publicly funded because of he was his finances would be public. Is Santa going bankrupt?
Mage246
Er, Egypt used currency. And when they didn't, they used precious metals for the same purpose.
Sir Saladin
Count
Santa oppresses the elfs and is basically running one of the biggest sweatshops in history. He doesn't pay them anything and makes magic dust out of their dried tears.
Lolwut...?Jhessail said:You're still a clueless tosser who thinks that red flags and GMKs have a secret conspiracy to keep the righteous down, aren't you?MickDick said:
What? Just coming out and randomly attacking me for something completely unrelated to what I was talking about.. What?
FUBAR!!!
Sergeant at Arms
Jhessail said:Unfortunately it seems to be a natural law of the Internet. Then you get useless tossers who got their precious feelings hurt during the previous round rejoin in order to snipe from the bushes, like this:Amontadillo said:
You're still a clueless tosser who thinks that red flags and GMKs have a secret conspiracy to keep the righteous down, aren't you?MickDick said:
You don't start out with respect, dear Günther-clone, you have to earn it. You also don't get to write or define the rules for either Internet debating or Taleworlds. There is a profanity filter, which you are most welcome to use. Trying to hide behind pleas for "civil behaviour" so that you can continue shouting your stupid bull**** is probably the second-oldest debating "tactic" in the world. It also doesn't work.FUBAR!!! said:
Lies and slander, Günther! Go back to filming your Animal Farm-videos. Ethnic minorities were more than welcome to serve in many militaries! While the colonial powers kept folks from their colonies in their own units - thus you had French Moroccoan units and British Indian units, only United States kept her citizens in different regiments by their skin-colour. US Navy kept most jobs closed to blacks even though the ships themselves were not segregated. How many good sailors were doomed to waste their talents peeling potatoes because of that? And the segregation lasted until the Korean War in 1950-1953 and its effects were noticeable until the late 1970's when black officers finally became commonplace.FUBAR!!! said:
Military segregation was also invented by American racists in the early 19th century, as it didn't exist during the 18th century.
Hmm, so true. Except it's not. You're an unimaginative idiot who is apparently clueless about life and culture and gender roles outside of Hickville, Alabama and who gets their information from Rush Limbaugh.FUBAR!!! said:
If you had bothered to read the thread, dear ****wit-Günther, you would have seen posts from actual members (current or former) of different militaries (mostly European) with actual experience from deployments and living in mixed-gender units. None of the problems you envision happen. You would have come across my post where I explained that the white-knight myth comes from a single American pamphlet written in 1950 by some American major, who claims to have interviewed three IDF officers for it - except he doesn't name them and IDF itself has never published such material. You would have learned that 800,000 Soviet woman served in the Red Army during WW2, roughly half of them in combat arms - snipers, pilots, tank drivers & gunners, using mortars and artillery and so on, and Red Army has never decried their presence and neither has Frunze Academy published any books showing that they were a liability instead of an asset.
So you have your head shoved pretty deep in your ass and instead of sheepishly admitting your mistake, you - in a proper hyper-masculine way - refuse to pull it out but shove it deeper. Good entertainment for the rest of us, that's for sure but maybe you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near either a gun or a female as you obviously are unable to restrain your hyper-masculinity, Günther.
Resorting to insulting my avatar to get your argument forward? Classic.
In regards to military segregation, you mentioned European countries, but this thread is about the United States. The US and European country's like France, England etc have fundamentally different cultures and history's, thus comparing them would be very wrong.
The US was built on slave labor, like it or not but its true. That fact and the indoctrination of white superiority made the US a racist country. So it made perfect sense to segregate blacks from whites in the military not because they cant perform well but because it would limit unit cohesion, blacks cooperated better with blacks, and whites cooperated better with whites solely based on racism, i'm not afraid to admit that.
Now you insult the state of Alabama, based on the assumption that I live their? It just gets better and better.
The USSR did segregate women into their own regiments, they where called women's rifle brigades.
Many females complained that the male-dominated military sought to defeminize servicewomen while denying them equal treatment. Fewer women than men achieved high-ranking positions in mixed-gender units; furthermore, male officers often undermined the authority of the few female officers. When female officers failed to maintain command over their subordinates, male officers blamed female inferiority. In some cases, the tense relations between male and female soldiers escalated to sexual harassment.For example, the 1st Separate Women’s Volunteer Rifle Brigade reported multiple instances of rape, resulting in sexually transmitted infections and unplanned pregnancies.
That was taken straight out of the book 'Our brigade will not be sent to the front': Soviet women under arms in the Great Fatherland War, 1941-45 written by Euridice Cardona and Roger Markwick. Interesting book, look it up.
Now please tell me more on how we should model our military on that of the USSR, i'm all ears. I have an idea! Lets bring back the Shtrafbat, it would be a great way to deal with inmates by sending them into suicide charges against enemy machine guns.
Crawl back into the hole you came from.
Its called an ad hominem, she criticizes me for using "the second-oldest debating tactic in the world" yet all she does is dismiss my arguments based on some assumption that i'm from Alabama and I listen to Rush Limbaugh.MickDick said:Lolwut...?Jhessail said:You're still a clueless tosser who thinks that red flags and GMKs have a secret conspiracy to keep the righteous down, aren't you?MickDick said:
What? Just coming out and randomly attacking me for something completely unrelated to what I was talking about.. What?
FUBAR!!! said:
Mage246
And what exactly is so wrong about the use of Elven tears as a fuel source? They're cheap, plentiful, and best of all cause no damage to the non-elven environment. Sure there's a risk of an elvish meltdown and mass suicide, but don't the benefits far outweigh the risks? Besides, any elves lost can easily be replaced.
Dodes
Count
It's extremely unethical, if such was possible with life that does not reach the necessity of intelligent and sentient life, I would be advocating for it. If they were trees or bushes for example, I would be likely to accept. Don't deny we are living on a Christmas held up by the mounds of dead Elven.
Mage246
Would you prefer we go back to using orphan tears? Well, is that what you want?!? Because that's what will happen without a viable alternative.
It keeps the so-called conversation lively. Besides, your avatar is what you want to tell the forum about yourself. Yours is a 70's porn moustache wielding Günther-wannabe. Tells me quite a bit about your sense of humour and personality.
Lol wat. No wait, this makes sense, coming from you. You already think that men are from Mars and women are from Venus, so thinking that French, British and other Europeans are FUNDAMENTALLY different to Americans seems logical. To you.
Which is just further proof that you are not only clueless but possibly bat-**** insane.
That's just as much true as the claim that Egyptian civilization was built on slave labour. Yes, it happened but it's not all that happened or anywhere near the entire picture.
And now there are no such coheision problems, except when soldiers bring racism with them from the civilian world and even then, the military often weanes them off of it. Or are you saying that the modern US Military is performing poorly compared to the pre-1950 segregated military?
Newsflash, dip****. They had both mixed-gender and mono-gender units. Which you should know since you're just copypasting Wikipedia - you haven't even read the book in question! What a moron! But don't worry, I'll look it up in a library during the winter, read and then write some quotes here that will give a better, full picture of the issue, than your copy-pasting of a half-a-paragraph from the Wikipedia article under the topic "Challenges faced".
You idiot!
No-one claimed that the Soviets had zero problems - but the fact is that a massive number of women did serve and it did not lead to a catastrophy and that they were a solid asset.Considering your level of knowledge is based on Wikipedia and Hollywood movies, I'll kindly educate you by stating that it was the Red Army that crushed the Nazi-Germany and it was the Red Army that crushed the Japanese Army of Kwantung, overrunning Mongolia and Korea, causing the Americans to rush half-cocked to meet them as their rapid advance took them by surprise. You think Battle of the Bulge or conquest of Sicily or Falaise Pocket or Operation Market-Garden were big, major battles? They were nothing compared to Battle of Kursk or conquest of Ukraine or Korsun Pocket or Operation Bagration. The Red Army in 1945 was superior to both US and British armies by numbers, by operational skill, by doctrine and by equipment quality - and only their edge in air could have prevented the Bear from reaching the Atlantic if Stalin so had wished. So stop slandering the Red Army when you have zero ****ing clue about their real capabilities. As if no other nation or military ever did stupid **** in an emergency.
Sorry Günther, you're the one doing all the crawling here, ignorant clueless moron as you are. The hole of shame beckons, Günther! Heed its call!
FUBAR!!!
Sergeant at Arms
Jhessail said:It keeps the so-called conversation lively. Besides, your avatar is what you want to tell the forum about yourself. Yours is a 70's porn moustache wielding Günther-wannabe. Tells me quite a bit about your sense of humour and personality.
Lol wat. No wait, this makes sense, coming from you. You already think that men are from Mars and women are from Venus, so thinking that French, British and other Europeans are FUNDAMENTALLY different to Americans seems logical. To you.
Which is just further proof that you are not only clueless but possibly bat-**** insane.
That's just as much true as the claim that Egyptian civilization was built on slave labour. Yes, it happened but it's not all that happened or anywhere near the entire picture.
And now there are no such coheision problems, except when soldiers bring racism with them from the civilian world and even then, the military often weanes them off of it. Or are you saying that the modern US Military is performing poorly compared to the pre-1950 segregated military?
Newsflash, dip****. They had both mixed-gender and mono-gender units. Which you should know since you're just copypasting Wikipedia - you haven't even read the book in question! What a moron! But don't worry, I'll look it up in a library during the winter, read and then write some quotes here that will give a better, full picture of the issue, than your copy-pasting of a half-a-paragraph from the Wikipedia article under the topic "Challenges faced".
You idiot!
Considering your level of knowledge is based on Wikipedia and Hollywood movies, I'll kindly educate you by stating that it was the Red Army that crushed the Nazi-Germany and it was the Red Army that crushed the Japanese Army of Kwantung, overrunning Mongolia and Korea, causing the Americans to rush half-cocked to meet them as their rapid advance took them by surprise. You think Battle of the Bulge or conquest of Sicily or Falaise Pocket or Operation Market-Garden were big, major battles? They were nothing compared to Battle of Kursk or conquest of Ukraine or Korsun Pocket or Operation Bagration. The Red Army in 1945 was superior to both US and British armies by numbers, by operational skill, by doctrine and by equipment quality - and only their edge in air could have prevented the Bear from reaching the Atlantic if Stalin so had wished. So stop slandering the Red Army when you have zero ******** clue about their real capabilities. As if no other nation or military ever did stupid **** in an emergency.
Sorry Günther, you're the one doing all the crawling here, ignorant clueless moron as you are. The hole of shame beckons, Günther! Heed its call!
Just because the thirteen colonies originally came from England, does not mean that the USA is not different. The US is fundamentally different from Europe, in terms of politics, economy, culture, etc. I'm not even going to bother debating that.
Racism was very dominant in the USA, because of their direct exposure to slavery. People in the early 19th century where indoctrinated with the belief that they are superior and that blacks are stupid and should be slaves. Racism in the United States especially during the 19th and early 20th century was a embedded into the population and enforced by courts, politics and even business owners. Segregation, racial discrimination, and expressions of white supremacy all increased. So did violence against blacks, thus making blacks hate whites and vice versa.
I'm not saying the modern US military is performing poorly. Of course racial segregation doesn't make sense anymore, because racism is not a dominant factor in peoples lives. As racism died down the military slowly brought whites and blacks together. You think putting two groups of people who hated each other together in a fighting unit would not limit cooperation? Racial segregation in the military partially helped integrate both races together, and prevented the internal fighting that likely would have happened if segregation was not enacted.
Yes i'm aware that the USSR had mixed gender units, but they also had all female units as well.
You failed to address the quote:
Many females complained that the male-dominated military sought to defeminize servicewomen while denying them equal treatment. Fewer women than men achieved high-ranking positions in mixed-gender units; furthermore, male officers often undermined the authority of the few female officers. When female officers failed to maintain command over their subordinates, male officers blamed female inferiority. In some cases, the tense relations between male and female soldiers escalated to sexual harassment.For example, the 1st Separate Women’s Volunteer Rifle Brigade reported multiple instances of rape, resulting in sexually transmitted infections and unplanned pregnancies.
I'm interested to see what you think of that, or are you going to keep avoiding it?
Your right, I didn't read the book, I just suggested it to you because of your interest on women in the soviet military. Just because this quote was taken from Wikipedia, does not dismiss its original writers.
You also seem to have the idea that I think women will perform worse in a combat situation then a man would, if you had not noticed my main argument is not against women, it is against the men who serve along side of them. If it was in fact that men never have committed sexual assault against a women in the military, then I would not be hear. My main concern is for the women who serve in the armed forces, who run the risk of being sexually assaulted by male comrades.
I was just making a joke, the Red army's accomplishments are some of the best in history and their contribution to world war two was much larger then the US and British combined. But without the US and Great Britain involved, I highly doubt they could have fought the Wehrmacht alone.
Sir Saladin
Count
He's right about racism not being an important factor in people's lives, except for certain kinds of people who write newspaper columns or appear on cable TV blathering networks like CNN. For them racism is the only factor in life.
