Pentagon to allow Women into frontline combat by 2016

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Fehnor said:
The whole world has changed in views regarding rape in 25 years. Also note, The statistics in the article are from military sources.

Also, the senate is a U.S. federal organization that you do not trust.

The article does have a lot of good information, and goals I agree with.

"Many members of the committee said they would like to see all sex offenders in the military discharged from service and would like to replace the current system of adjudicating sexual assault by taking it outside a victim’s chain of command. The senators focused in particular on a recent decision by an Air Force general to reverse a guilty verdict in a sexual assault case with little explanation."

'"...if you think you are achieving discipline and order with your current convening authority framework I am sorry to say you are wrong."'

The underlying purpose of that hearing was to gather information to add additional structure for reporting and care for victims, and punishment and dismissal of offenders. That is the direction the military has to take, and it has to be a serious punishment enforced the same way the zero tolerance on drug and alcohol in the '80's. I think this is right around the corner, and will probably have some retroactive effects.
I know the pentagon is a government organization, but their are a few acceptations within the pentagon, such as the department of veterans affairs which most likely gathered this evidence and considering how much they do for military veterans I would not have a problem trusting them.
There should be zero tolerance, but first of all as mentioned by a victim in the article “I chose not to do a report of any kind because I had no faith in my chain of command,” soldiers have to not be afraid to report sexual harassment and since the military is a breeding ground for submissiveness to superiors I think that would be the hardest problem to fix.

Jhessail said:
FUBAR!!! said:
I cant say much about the quality of training, but I have heard that the standards have been lowered in recent years.
Post a source or shut the **** up.
Oh no, I think I hit a nerve.

No I don't have a source, or at least one you would consider viable.
Mostly talking with friends during card games one of them who is is training right now told me a few guys in his barracks have bad criminal records, he heard this from a conversation between military recruiters who chose to let them in anyways. 
 
FUBAR!!! said:
Oh no, I think I hit a nerve.

No I don't have a source, or at least one you would consider viable.
Mostly talking with friends during card games one of them who is is training right now told me a few guys in his barracks have bad criminal records, he heard this from a conversation between military recruiters who chose to let them in anyways.
Oh no, another clown who thinks 70's porn moustaches are ironically funny.

It's really difficult to find sources. I assume you're talking about the US Armed Forces. See, if you HAD read the thread, you would have noticed that such sources have been posted before:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/13/how-neo-nazis-and-gangs-infiltrated-the-u-s-military-matt-kennard-s-irregular-army.html
It's well worth reading.

If you're just going to ***** about Federal programs and bureaus being corrupted, inefficient and so on, do it in some other thread. If you're going to ***** about female presence being the cause for lowering standards, then read the article above and realize that it isn't true. If you're going to keep sprouting stupid BS about cultural reasons or how men are biologically hard-wired to white-knight women and there's nothing that can be to change that - just shut the **** up because you are wrong and deluded. If you have something relevant to add to the thread, please go ahead.
 
FUBAR!!! said:
Swadius 2.0 said:
FUBAR!!! said:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/03/military-rape-enemy-within-the-ranks/?_r=0#/1/

26,000 sexual assault cases in the US military where reported in 2012.
Plus at least a couple thousand more that went unreported.

Yeah, I'm living under a rock.

"Lets not let African Americans into the armed forces because the majority of those that are already in it will discriminate against them?"

You missed my first point, I never said anything about not letting women into the military, just separate them from men.

I think we can easily tune that argument. Should we keep visible minorities separate from the rest of the military when racism was still an acceptable part of society? In any case, if men are as sex hungry as you think they are, shouldn't it be a real worry to you about men who recently finish their time and return to the civilian world? Or you know, keep them far away from the civilian population from wherever they're stationed?

I also find it astonishing how quickly people abandon the principle of the military accepting the best when societal prejudices come up. Segregating people by their societal standings outside of the military is not inducive to that principle. You are precluding people who can work together really well together from coming together.
 
Swadius 2.0 said:
FUBAR!!! said:
Swadius 2.0 said:
FUBAR!!! said:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/03/military-rape-enemy-within-the-ranks/?_r=0#/1/

26,000 sexual assault cases in the US military where reported in 2012.
Plus at least a couple thousand more that went unreported.

Yeah, I'm living under a rock.

"Lets not let African Americans into the armed forces because the majority of those that are already in it will discriminate against them?"

You missed my first point, I never said anything about not letting women into the military, just separate them from men.

I think we can easily tune that argument. Should we keep visible minorities separate from the rest of the military when racism was still an acceptable part of society? In any case, if men are as sex hungry as you think they are, shouldn't it be a real worry to you about men who recently finish their time and return to the civilian world? Or you know, keep them far away from the civilian population from wherever they're stationed?

I also find it astonishing how quickly people abandon the principle of the military accepting the best when societal prejudices come up. Segregating people by their societal standings outside of the military is not inducive to that principle. You are precluding people who can work together really well together from coming together.

The military did keep racial minorities in their own regiments up until WW2 when racism started to go down they slowly integrated them with the others, it worked well.
Why would the soldiers having sexual relationships be a problem when they are home? By all means let them, the problem is when they are in the military.
That would be the best scenario, assuming their is no prejudice in the military not just among the superiors but also among the average recruit. If everyone in the military could work together to their best ability that would be great, but prejudices do limit things like cooperation between soldiers.


Jhessail said:
FUBAR!!! said:
Oh no, I think I hit a nerve.

No I don't have a source, or at least one you would consider viable.
Mostly talking with friends during card games one of them who is is training right now told me a few guys in his barracks have bad criminal records, he heard this from a conversation between military recruiters who chose to let them in anyways.
Oh no, another clown who thinks 70's porn moustaches are ironically funny.

It's really difficult to find sources. I assume you're talking about the US Armed Forces. See, if you HAD read the thread, you would have noticed that such sources have been posted before:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/13/how-neo-nazis-and-gangs-infiltrated-the-u-s-military-matt-kennard-s-irregular-army.html
It's well worth reading.

If you're just going to ***** about Federal programs and bureaus being corrupted, inefficient and so on, do it in some other thread. If you're going to ***** about female presence being the cause for lowering standards, then read the article above and realize that it isn't true. If you're going to keep sprouting stupid BS about cultural reasons or how men are biologically hard-wired to white-knight women and there's nothing that can be to change that - just shut the **** up because you are wrong and deluded. If you have something relevant to add to the thread, please go ahead.

I guess its cool nowadays to swear in every sentence you write especially for a moderator, someone who should be representing the integrity of Taleworlds forum. That leads me to wonder, who's **** did you suck to get an admins position around here? just curious.

1. I give praise when its due, most government organizations don't deserve it, but hey I guess talking about the Pentagon, in a thread with PENTAGON in the title is wrong.
2. I never mentioned female presence lowering standards, I mentioned the military lowering their standards to accept convicted criminals.
3. The article you posted backs up my earlier statement, thanks for posting it.
4. Just because you don't believe in traditional gender roles, doesn't mean they don't exist. I think the presence of a female in a hyper masculine military subculture would probably trigger some sort of protective reaction from the men.

If you would like to continue debating me, please refrain from using anymore profanity for your own benefit, it makes you sound like a child.
 
There is no room for profanity in a debate, it polluted what could have been a decent reply, into one I shouldn't have even bothered with.
 
FUBAR!!! said:
There is no room for profanity in a debate, it polluted what could have been a decent reply, into one I shouldn't have even bothered with.
If there's no room for profanity, then there's no room for insults and disrespect such as but not limited to:
FUBAR!!! said:
That leads me to wonder, who's **** did you suck to get an admins position around here? just curious.

Also, you can just ignore her replies, it's not like you're required to reply to them.
 
kabogh said:
FUBAR!!! said:
There is no room for profanity in a debate, it polluted what could have been a decent reply, into one I shouldn't have even bothered with.
If there's no room for profanity, then there's no room for insults and disrespect such as but not limited to:
FUBAR!!! said:
That leads me to wonder, who's **** did you suck to get an admins position around here? just curious.

Also, you can just ignore her replies, it's not like you're required to reply to them.
I responded to her reply with the same respect she gave me, which was none.
I don't ignore people.

Headmaster said:
FUBAR!!! said:
There is no room for profanity in a debate, it polluted what could have been a decent reply, into one I shouldn't have even bothered with.

:lol:

Also, nice to meet you, debate lawmaker.

Not a law, just a suggestion. If you where to have a debate with someone in person would you blatantly tell them to **** off because their opinion conflicts with yours?
It reminds me of when uneducated people resort to violence once they realize they are wrong. Verbal abuse seems to be the internets equivalent of that.
Decent people treat each other with respect for a reason, its what differentiates us from undesirables, when I see trash I treat it like trash.

Amontadillo said:
He's quite the ****, yes.
Welcome back, I missed you.
 
Is it just me or does the thread have cycles in and out of productive debate that is only paralleled by sequences of unproductive debate (such as now in my mind), though it would be interesting to know whose opinion is subjective of which.
 
Amontadillo said:
It's every time a **** comes along spouting the same crap as the ten before him that the thread gets rather useless,  yes.
Unfortunately it seems to be a natural law of the Internet. Then you get useless tossers who got their precious feelings hurt during the previous round rejoin in order to snipe from the bushes, like this:
MickDick said:
The definition of a dogpile.
You're still a clueless tosser who thinks that red flags and GMKs have a secret conspiracy to keep the righteous down, aren't you?  :lol:

FUBAR!!! said:
I responded to her reply with the same respect she gave me, which was none.
You don't start out with respect, dear Günther-clone, you have to earn it. You also don't get to write or define the rules for either Internet  debating or Taleworlds. There is a profanity filter, which you are most welcome to use. Trying to hide behind pleas for "civil behaviour" so that you can continue shouting your stupid bull**** is probably the second-oldest debating "tactic" in the world. It also doesn't work.

FUBAR!!! said:
The military did keep racial minorities in their own regiments up until WW2 when racism started to go down they slowly integrated them with the others, it worked well.
Lies and slander, Günther! Go back to filming your Animal Farm-videos. Ethnic minorities were more than welcome to serve in many militaries! While the colonial powers kept folks from their colonies in their own units - thus you had French Moroccoan units and British Indian units, only United States kept her citizens in different regiments by their skin-colour. US Navy kept most jobs closed to blacks even though the ships themselves were not segregated. How many good sailors were doomed to waste their talents peeling potatoes because of that? And the segregation lasted until the Korean War in 1950-1953 and its effects were noticeable until the late 1970's when black officers finally became commonplace.

Military segregation was also invented by American racists in the early 19th century, as it didn't exist during the 18th century.

FUBAR!!! said:
4. Just because you don't believe in traditional gender roles, doesn't mean they don't exist. I think the presence of a female in a hyper masculine military subculture would probably trigger some sort of protective reaction from the men.
Hmm, so true. Except it's not. You're an unimaginative idiot who is apparently clueless about life and culture and gender roles outside of Hickville, Alabama and who gets their information from Rush Limbaugh.

If you had bothered to read the thread, dear ****wit-Günther, you would have seen posts from actual members (current or former) of different militaries (mostly European) with actual experience from deployments and living in mixed-gender units. None of the problems you envision happen. You would have come across my post where I explained that the white-knight myth comes from a single American pamphlet written in 1950 by some American major, who claims to have interviewed three IDF officers for it - except he doesn't name them and IDF itself has never published such material. You would have learned that 800,000 Soviet woman served in the Red Army during WW2, roughly half of them in combat arms - snipers, pilots, tank drivers & gunners, using mortars and artillery and so on, and Red Army has never decried their presence and neither has Frunze Academy published any books showing that they were a liability instead of an asset.

So you have your head shoved pretty deep in your ass and instead of sheepishly admitting your mistake, you - in a proper hyper-masculine way - refuse to pull it out but shove it deeper. Good entertainment for the rest of us, that's for sure but maybe you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near either a gun or a female as you obviously are unable to restrain your hyper-masculinity, Günther.
 
Sir Saladin said:
Please stop with the ******** profanity already. This is a house of worship and Santa Claus is watching.

Santa Clause can go to hell and die! Its pedophile moron tossers like him that give the Internetz a bad place.

 
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