Penalty for leaving a game hard enough?

[Derped@Warband]

People ditching on a match because they are losing deserve something; whether it's a time out, or a forced reconnect with the game, or a forced loss, they deserve something. It's the fault of TW that we're forced into a situation where every queued game is ranked and that this is an issue, but I've no sympathy for someone who leaves. So the rest of your team deserves to play gimped because of it? Screw that, how is that fun for them? Nah, **** them, right? I'd probably feel different if I saw the casuals leaving, but mostly I see the good players leaving to go try to pad their stats a bit more. The ones who can recognize who are good by the names and stuff. The ones that make a difference. If it's going to be forced to be ranked, people need to be forced to play it out, or a punishment that fits leaving your team high and dry implemented. I'd be fine with that being as little as giving their profile the loss, and two deaths for every round unplayed; no time out, no ban, no forced reconnect with the game. It doesn't have to be harsh, but I think it needs to be there. If a player is leaving for fun, it's no biggie for the rank stuff. If a player is leaving to try to get a better game or better stats they need to think twice...

Oh, wait, TW ditched the W-L for just a W... well, FML. Custom servers with no tie to the rank system, where people can come and go as they please would be optimal.

 

[Caps]

People ditching on a match because they are losing deserve something; whether it's a time out, or a forced reconnect with the game, or a forced loss, they deserve something. It's the fault of TW that we're forced into a situation where every queued game is ranked and that this is an issue, but I've no sympathy for someone who leaves. So the rest of your team deserves to play gimped because of it? Screw that, how is that fun for them? Nah, **** them, right? I'd probably feel different if I saw the casuals leaving, but mostly I see the good players leaving to go try to pad their stats a bit more. The ones who can recognize who are good by the names and stuff. The ones that make a difference. If it's going to be forced to be ranked, people need to be forced to play it out, or a punishment that fits leaving your team high and dry implemented. I'd be fine with that being as little as giving their profile the loss, and two deaths for every round unplayed; no time out, no ban, no forced reconnect with the game. It doesn't have to be harsh, but I think it needs to be there. If a player is leaving for fun, it's no biggie for the rank stuff. If a player is leaving to try to get a better game or better stats they need to think twice...

Oh, wait, TW ditched the W-L for just a W... well, FML. Custom servers with no tie to the rank system, where people can come and go as they please would be optimal.

Never expected them to create a 6o6 mode tbh, was more leaning towards swbf2 (2005) battle with capture points and repawn on the capture points on small to medium sized maps, and with 20-64 players. A dedicated ranked mode would be nice, but if the ranked mode is better than the skirmish, skirmish will die.

Especially since the 2 games have so much in common like the class system, or "large" scale battles.

 

[Mabons]

People ditching on a match because they are losing deserve something; whether it's a time out, or a forced reconnect with the game, or a forced loss, they deserve something. It's the fault of TW that we're forced into a situation where every queued game is ranked and that this is an issue, but I've no sympathy for someone who leaves. So the rest of your team deserves to play gimped because of it? Screw that, how is that fun for them? Nah, **** them, right? I'd probably feel different if I saw the casuals leaving, but mostly I see the good players leaving to go try to pad their stats a bit more. The ones who can recognize who are good by the names and stuff. The ones that make a difference. If it's going to be forced to be ranked, people need to be forced to play it out, or a punishment that fits leaving your team high and dry implemented. I'd be fine with that being as little as giving their profile the loss, and two deaths for every round unplayed; no time out, no ban, no forced reconnect with the game. It doesn't have to be harsh, but I think it needs to be there. If a player is leaving for fun, it's no biggie for the rank stuff. If a player is leaving to try to get a better game or better stats they need to think twice...

Agreed. It's always the ****ing ****ters who run around couching people in the back to pad their stats that leave when the going gets rough, they are good enough to turn the tables but they never do stay for the hard fought wins.

That said, have patience, these people will be punished and leave soon enough when they realise all that time spent couching people in the back doesn't actually help you play well.

 

[Aeronwen]

Reconnect? Seriously? That's even more ****ed up. Really. And what about player who didn't reconnected? The slot will be empty for the rest of the game? Or he will be replaced temporary by some1 then the some1 will be threw out when the 1st one reconnects. I believe you starting getting this que system too serious.



This. No one understands its better than M&B players. You cannot force some1 to play.

Also, many top players already said that matchmaking is bull**** in game that only top of the mountain is interested in competetive, which rest is about fun at wars, casual, roleplaying etc.

Face it, please, no offense.

Exactly

 

[Lincoln_Hawk]

there isnt even a high enough playerbase to have proper matchmaking. it will be a joke. how about focusing on marketing and driving people into the game and KEEPING them there and then we can do match making and reporting for competitive games

 

[Maroon]

there isnt even a high enough playerbase to have proper matchmaking. it will be a joke. how about focusing on marketing and driving people into the game and KEEPING them there and then we can do match making and reporting for competitive games

Exactly. There's been this weird push in Bannerlord all the way since the Gamescom announcements for "competitive" multiplayer. A very small group of players cares about that, and even if everyone who actually plays the game was interested in it, you still wouldn't have proper ranking since you need more than 2000 players for that.
So instead of a proper multiplayer, we get this wannabe "competitive testing ground" that died a month after early access launch, and none of the aspects that made people interested in multiplayer to begin with. Like a lot of people told TW over the past 3 years, especially since the alpha launch.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

The solution to everything seems to be custom servers..

 

[Hans 77]

Punishment was never the correct solution.

Taleworlds has created an environment where the sweatiest of sweaty players and players who want a more relaxed multiplayer experience are all stuffed into the same tiny fish bowl at the same time.

It doesn't work. Players are left feeling either frustrated or bored -neither of which are good for the longevity of a game's multiplayer.

In addition, I don't know if the implementation of matchmaking in general was the right call for a game that will require a very long and patient process of mechanics tweaking and faction/class/unit balancing -it just didn't feel like the right time for that. Too soon in my opinion.

A game's multiplayer environment needs to foster feelings of catharsis and satisfaction, not ennui or apathy. Perhaps Bannerlord will achieve this sometime down the road -once private servers are available and the when game becomes more polished and balanced. But for the time being, let this stand: Players leaving mid-match was never the problem, it was only a symptom of the problem.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

Punishment was never the correct solution.

Taleworlds has created an environment where the sweatiest of sweaty players and players who want a more relaxed multiplayer experience are all stuffed into the same tiny fish bowl at the same time.

It doesn't work. Players are left feeling either frustrated or bored -neither of which are good for the longevity of a game's multiplayer.

In addition, I don't know if the implementation of matchmaking in general was the right call for a game that will require a very long and patient process of mechanics tweaking and faction/class/unit balancing -it just didn't feel like the right time for that. Too soon in my opinion.

A game's multiplayer environment needs to foster feelings of catharsis and satisfaction, not ennui or apathy. Perhaps Bannerlord will achieve this sometime down the road -once private servers are available and the when game becomes more polished and balanced. But for the time being, let this stand: Players leaving mid-match was never the problem, it was only a symptom of the problem.

You don't really say, why punishment is not the correct solution. Why shouldn't it be?

 

[1115141208114]

I don't know if the game does this now, but perhaps if a person leaves, then those who remain are given an increased amount of soldiers to balance it out? I'm honestly torn on whether punishment would be appropriate, as I personally think those who quit mid game are cowards, but I myself have experienced being kicked out of the game simply because of connection issues. But I think the aforementioned would work well in balancing out the game if it does come to that. I also think people quitting mid game is caused by lack of communication between team members, which leads to the team losing, which leads to frustration and abandonment.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

I don't know if the game does this now, but perhaps if a person leaves, then those who remain are given an increased amount of soldiers to balance it out?

This is in the game already, you get the additional troops when a new round begins, that can be very annoying, but you have still a good chance if only fiew leave the game. The real problem is Skirmish mode. In Skirmish mode, every single player who leaves the game, can reduce the chance of winning/ turning the tables drastically.

I'm honestly torn on whether punishment would be appropriate, as I personally think those who quit mid game are cowards, but I myself have experienced being kicked out of the game simply because of connection issues.

I am sure it is possible to make the system detect if you are purposefully quitting the game. Connection issues shouldn't occur often anyways.

I also think people quitting mid game is caused by lack of communication between team members, which leads to the team losing, which leads to frustration and abandonment.

There will allways be a lack of communication between team members, that aren't in some discord voice chat group or something like that. But I had some quite well organized games with random people, just using the chat. If some people wouldn't just ignore it, it would work fine. I get it, some players just want to have fun and don't wan't to listen to other players commands all the time, but others like to use tactics and win the game. Thats why we need custom servers

 

[Hans 77]

You don't really say, why punishment is not the correct solution. Why shouldn't it be?

Players leaving mid-match was never the problem, it was only a symptom of the problem

^^^^^^^^^

Because Taleworlds is punishing people for the wrong reasons. They should spend more time fostering an environment that is more appealing and accessible to players from across every spectrum of skill level and experience instead of frog-marching them into forced acquiescence through threats of penalties. This begins with the addition of private servers, and over time will continue to develop with overall game balancing -a much more patient process.

Let's call Skirmish what it is in it's current state: A unilateral slaughter. One side usually acts as the punching bag for the other. This is a result of the matchmaking system being half-baked: There is matchmaking -and 6 stacks are given priority to match up with other 6 stacks, but none of this is based on any rank or level, so in effect the matchmaking system is very bare bones and actually takes control out of the players' hands. Teams are just randomly thrown together without any input from the players playing on them. In Warband, you could pick which server you wanted to play on, and which team you wanted to play for. By shoehorning in a matchmaking system that wasn't ready to take flight yet, this created an environment where players feel trapped.

As far as Captain mode goes, I'll admit I haven't played a lot of it, but in the few matches I've played, the problems that jumped out at me was the wonky AI and unbalanced factions/classes (hello Vlandian peasant). It seemed a little too RNG-centric for my tastes. Bad map + bad faction and you're done, people don't want to fight a doomed fight. Someone who is more of an authority on Captain mode will probably be better able to extrapolate on it's unique issues than I am.

 

[TFK_Ted]

^^^^^^^^^

Because Taleworlds is punishing people for the wrong reasons. They should spend more time fostering an environment that is more appealing and accessible to players from across every spectrum of skill level and experience instead of frog-marching them into forced acquiescence through threats of penalties. This begins with the addition of private servers, and over time will continue to develop with overall game balancing -a much more patient process.

Let's call Skirmish what it is in it's current state: A unilateral slaughter. One side usually acts as the punching bag for the other. This is a result of the matchmaking system being half-baked: There is matchmaking -and 6 stacks are given priority to match up with other 6 stacks, but none of this is based on any rank or level, so in effect the matchmaking system is very bare bones and actually takes control out of the players' hands. Teams are just randomly thrown together without any input from the players playing on them. In Warband, you could pick which server you wanted to play on, and which team you wanted to play for. By shoehorning in a matchmaking system that wasn't ready to take flight yet, this created an environment where players feel trapped.

As far as Captain mode goes, I'll admit I haven't played a lot of it, but in the few matches I've played, the problems that jumped out at me was the wonky AI and unbalanced factions/classes (hello Vlandian peasant). It seemed a little too RNG-centric for my tastes. Bad map + bad faction and you're done, people don't want to fight a doomed fight. Someone who is more of an authority on Captain mode will probably be better able to extrapolate on it's unique issues than I am.

Your post, especially the first paragraph, is sharp and true imo. I could not have said that any better.

 

[FearSpear]

i think the best solution to fix this is a reconnect, it prevents people to queue up again. A penalty system gets mostly obsolete with this.

I like this idea, it annoys me mildly when several of my noob team leaves and it causes a mass rout, turning an easy pubstomp into a game where I have to 1v6 the other team with only 2 meatshields to help me. It's still fun to win these but when forced into disadvantageous number situations against people you outskill ten times over, the casualizations of the combat system starts to show.