Patch Notes v1.2.10

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The tiny hotfix they just did speaks to fact they won't for June or the month following; they'll bank on this 'beta' hotfix and stretch it so the next 'patch' will be converting this to live.
Maybe, there was one time, I don't remember where there was huge content patch, but that was at least 2 years ago. Where they released a beta and then the next was a "big one". That was a while ago, why is Bannerlord making me feel old lol.
 
It has been noted repeatedly. The most "public" recent statement can be found here:
steamcommunity.com/app/261550/#scroll
I just attempted to go to the link (looking for the public statement) on what they're working on. The top of the page is shows their sale and right below that is a post called "What are the devs doing? I think taleworlds has over 100 developers. What are they doing?"

Unless I'm missing something, I wasn't able to find the public statement...If you've got a link, we'd love to see what y'all are working on!
 
Personally, I wouldn't have as much of an issue with TW if they just picked one of two possible options and done it right:

Flesh out the features and finised the game;

Or

Publish the game with some timely hotfixes post release and allow modders to take control.

Unfortunately and somehow TW found a third option - Release a broken game, spend 4 years releasing hotfixes for crashes and bug fixes (without a heads up) and drive the modding community away even after they took the time to pinpoint the exact issues and how to solve them in an open letter. This is the modding community who spent hours trying to fix the game for them. This isn't acceptable for a game in development for 14 or so years with 130 people behind it.

As I stated before in other threads, creating Dev Diaries telling us they are working on "a criminal empire" only to then release it and it become the most pathetic cut and paste workshop feature is at best negligence, at worst, gaslighting. They showcased weather, claimants and other features - since cut - in 2017, only still to finish or implement them. They even reduced the quality of the global illumination since its release.

Now, after ignoring the modders, we have a fraction of the mods we could have had due to their silence, after ignoring their multiplayer fans, we have no multiplayer worth even mentioning, and after ignoring their single player fans, there is a vitriol towards TW handling on the game which is evident on the Reddit pages for M&B, steam pages, here, YouTube videos, YouTube comment sections and even in Reddit pages dedicated to other games, they will be left without their single player community on this and future games.

But for some reason, @Dejan, @Duh_TaleWorlds think their absence and silence is a big brain move.
I don't like the silence either however I understand the dilemma with some people just getting even more agitated if they say something that's not good enough. Based on yours and others critique the issue seems to arise from them saying/showing too much previously.

As for the game being released broken, it was broken in Early Access, at least it was fully laid out and transparent. It is not in any way "fully broken" now since the "full" release. Being disappointing is fine, however I say this because I draw similarities to another game I was quite looking forward to but that is an actual total ****show since launch, with concrete lies by the devs/publishing company and that game didn't release with an "early access" tag. Also a game where people have to rely on mods, and compared to that Bannerlord is fully playable without mods, I've only really missed a small few features from Bannerlord to be very content.

Now, shouldn't maybe compare it to some other game, but I just don't think these issues exist with Bannerlord. Modders/people using mods can choose to stay on older beta versions. For what I see Taleworlds is doing almost everything right except not delivering quite the game on what some people hoped for. People who likes to complain are always filling up forums, it's evident from the reviews and playerbase that the game is all in all pretty good though which I think as well. Even if I don't currently play it and mostly lurk the forums for some news of a dlc or big update of sorts.
 
I don't like the silence either however I understand the dilemma with some people just getting even more agitated if they say something that's not good enough. Based on yours and others critique the issue seems to arise from them saying/showing too much previously.

There is a difference between showing too much, and showing the game to players, selling it at full price and then removing features/dropping development of features after the game has sold.

Smithing: only to release and be able to craft javelins and spend years tinkering with it and finally adding other weapons, which still have gaps in them.
Functioning weather being shown in the game in 2015-2017: released years later and looks like **** for a 2020 game and the nighttime scenes pitch black that they are skipped entirely because TW doesn't know that the moon reflects light apparently so having the day/night cycle is almost void.
"Create your own Criminal Empire!": only to be workshop that you have to nanny across the whole map, making it an unviable/unusable mechanic.
"Buy and Manage Workshops": Unusable and from what I remember, is less management then what was available in WB and generating an average max profit of 100 a day is not a functional system, and then for the amount of workshops to be capped. Clicking "buy workshop" and then never doing anything with it again isn't a feature. It's cookie clicker but less fun.
Diplomacy: "Actually, nevermind"
Create your own settlements: "Actually, nevermind"
Battle Replay System shown in 2015: "Actually, nevermind"
Claimants: "Actually, nevermind"
Money Management: "We don't know how to create a monetary system and balance it so we are just going to rack up the price of everything and have lords and ladys never ask to join your kingdom unlike our last game, forcing you to pay them 400k and 700 horses to join"
Attributes: Majority of which don't have a function seeing as you are not a governor of a settlement, and why would you be?
Policies: Most shown in Strat Gaming video to not work.
Companion only groups in battle: Removed
Manual troop sorting: (i.e. sorting spear men into one group, sword into another etc): Removed
Setting Attack Targets on the Campaign Map: "Actually, nevermind"
Towns under siege look difference to towns that aren't: "Actually, nevermind"
"Immersive battles": Whoever was in charge of the sound design lied on their resumé because, "ahh" and repitched AOE2 sounds is not immersive.
"Voice lines": men have woman voices, woman have male voices and they change between the two in the same conversation.
"Armour": some good designs, but the visual variety between is shocking compared to Warband. You always look the same at the end and half the male nobles you come across have tits.
"Multiplayer": yikes

Lets not forget the "2" in the Mount & Blade 2. Generally when a game releases a sequel to their franchise, they improve and add. The only things TW have improved on are the graphics (which were downgraded on release (global illumination)), AI use ladders and some ****ty mini games like smithing, which again, is still broken. Sally Out is decent but I never used it after the first couple of times as it has no impact.

We would have expected the basic features from 1 to carry over such as camping, books, feasts, assassinations, manhunters, Marshalls, Peace Treaties and Alliances, females being treated differently etc etc etc but alas, I guess that is our own fault for "expecting too much" and not TW being ****. Cant believe I used to defend them during the MostBlunted days.
 
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I don't like the silence either however I understand the dilemma with some people just getting even more agitated if they say something that's not good enough. Based on yours and others critique the issue seems to arise from them saying/showing too much previously.
The non-communication is not a fault of the players, devs or studios that make it seem that way are liars. There will always be people with issues, it's the internet. They are silent because they have no content to speak of or to or about. So, if they are/were silent, message taken.
Only then say with a single sentence 20 pages into a thread and same some "see our status post from 2 years ago" or "we're definitely cooking", or "1.3 will come"; but, "we can't share anything or we will share once we have something". Just shut the forums down then, right now it's just a cesspool of whoever still remains just complaining (myself included). Issues don't get solved, there's no 'community', there's no communications, no 'game' activity of any decent meaning.
As for the game being released broken, it was broken in Early Access, at least it was fully laid out and transparent. It is not in any way "fully broken" now since the "full" release. Being disappointing is fine, however I say this because I draw similarities to another game I was quite looking forward to but that is an actual total ****show since launch, with concrete lies by the devs/publishing company and that game didn't release with an "early access" tag. Also a game where people have to rely on mods, and compared to that Bannerlord is fully playable without mods, I've only really missed a small few features from Bannerlord to be very content.
It was not fully laid out and transparent during EA; far, far from it. I don't mind if it's broken in 'new' ways due to updates. But we aren't getting updates, it's the same laundry list of benign bug/crash fixes from things years ago that still have repeatedly shown up or are unresolved to date. That "fully playable" is pulling a lot of weight. Days Before was (at launch time) "fully playable", I could extend my $/hr in that game too; as some justify this game's current standards with.
Does the game crash less than before? Absolutely, as expected being in EA for 4 years and now beta for 2 years post-release.
Now, shouldn't maybe compare it to some other game, but I just don't think these issues exist with Bannerlord. Modders/people using mods can choose to stay on older beta versions. For what I see Taleworlds is doing almost everything right except not delivering quite the game on what some people hoped for. People who likes to complain are always filling up forums, it's evident from the reviews and playerbase that the game is all in all pretty good though which I think as well. Even if I don't currently play it and mostly lurk the forums for some news of a dlc or big update of sorts.
What is TW doing "right"? I also haven't played in months, I want the game to be finished development so I can do one last decent playthrough as I paid for that (I'm done beta testing for them now ~6 years); then finally put this mess into the grave.
This isn't some GAAS where they can hide incomplete content behind 'seasons', they obviously aren't doing DLCs either; so, can we get a completed game TW?
 
Of course this silence is the fault of the players, and it is at the same time human/normal.

When you tell someone something, they inevitably expect to receive it. And when it's ultimately harder than expected or even perhaps impossible for general-purpose machines (e.g. replay editor), it inevitably becomes a disappointment. Whereas when you don't expect anything (e.g. the weather), it can only be a good surprise.

Not giving dates (in addition to not giving the content) also allows them to not have to justify themselves or reveal the number of developers still on Bannerlord. Any comparison is also impossible since we do not know the planned content.

Commercially you have to work in the sector to realize this, but they are definitely right and have no choice in doing so. They don't have enough developers to guarantee deadlines, or even that all the planned content will succeed.

On the other hand, whatever the delay, I will never understand players who spit on free content... The game is already over, everything that happens is a bonus.

Players love to point out what is missing in what was announced, but never talk about things that were not announced and even developed, for free...
 
Of course this silence is the fault of the players, and it is at the same time human/normal.

You can't state something like this without explaining how. "It's human/normal". Bro, stop talking lol.

When you tell someone something, they inevitably expect to receive it. And when it's ultimately harder than expected or even perhaps impossible for general-purpose machines (e.g. replay editor), it inevitably becomes a disappointment. Whereas when you don't expect anything (e.g. the weather), it can only be a good surprise.

Yeah generally that's how things work. If I tell you I will give you something, you pay for it, and then I renege on it, the least I can do is offer you an explanation, not go dark and cut off communication.

The weather was expected. << *Clicky clicky, takes two seconds to Google something*. It was shown in the in the years and months up to EA release. If you're going to try defend them, at least try come across like you know what you're taking about, otherwise you just making it worse for them, and moreso, makes your whole argument weaker than it already is.

Not giving dates (in addition to not giving the content) also allows them to not have to justify themselves or reveal the number of developers still on Bannerlord. Any comparison is also impossible since we do not know the planned content.

This...doesn't make any sense whatsoever. "They don't have to justify themselves". In what world is that acceptable for any establishment? You have to justify your design decisions, especially when you're customer has already paid for the product based on the products description.

Commercially you have to work in the sector to realize this, but they are definitely right and have no choice in doing so. They don't have enough developers to guarantee deadlines, or even that all the planned content will succeed.

You clearly don't work in the sector either, or not to a level to which you know the goings on. You have no bases or fact for this comment unless you have getting information directly from staff at TW. So if you can pass that information on, please do so.

You bootlickers act like developing bannerlord is as complicated and must be as secretive as designing the V2 rocket to hide it from the Allies. It's not that deep and sucking up to them is embarrassing.

On the other hand, whatever the delay, I will never understand players who spit on free content... The game is already over, everything that happens is a bonus.

It's eh...not free. We paid for it. We paid for a game with X,Y,Z features, only got feature X and Y that was shown to us before we bought the game, and then they removed feature Y after release, hence....not free????

Players love to point out what is missing in what was announced, but never talk about things that were not announced and even developed, for free...

Did you read my previous comments at all where I specifically outlined what was shown and what was cut (3 comment above, re-mentioned as x,y,z features above)? I assume you did seeing as you're alluding to it. Did you forget what I wrote in the 4 minutes it took you to write this comment?

I run an architecture practice. I have clients that pay me. What I do is ensure my clients are satisfied with my work so that either they come back and/or others get work from me through them. This works great, because it's exactly how every other business in the world works, even the gaming sector. What I don't do, is design a house, omit the utility room and then run off to the hills halfway through the project. I don't then expect the client to be fully satisfied with me after omiting their utility room and running away with their money because the bed I procured for them came with pillows.
 
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Of course this silence is the fault of the players, and it is at the same time human/normal.
How? That because we post opinions on a server forum they host, suddenly it's all and every. single. poster. here (negative or positive or in between) that caused their silence? Is it human to hide away in shame? Of course it is. That's what TW is doing. Not because of us.
When you tell someone something, they inevitably expect to receive it. And when it's ultimately harder than expected or even perhaps impossible for general-purpose machines (e.g. replay editor), it inevitably becomes a disappointment. Whereas when you don't expect anything (e.g. the weather), it can only be a good surprise.
You're speaking as if we were given some gift. They sold an incomplete product, oversold the promises, underdelivered, delayed completion, and now we're almost 2 years post-release. Weather isn't a 'surprise', nor 90% of the features in this game that are still half-assed completed or buggy. They are expectations they failed to deliver during the first 4 years of beta/early access. So to TW, what are they doing with that? Nothing, as it seems. No patches, no communication, no apologies, no direction.
Not giving dates (in addition to not giving the content) also allows them to not have to justify themselves or reveal the number of developers still on Bannerlord. Any comparison is also impossible since we do not know the planned content.
I can understand not giving dates or #of employees. Not giving content? Then they should 'finish' the game, not string us along with no communication besides "something is cooking". That's bs, and ****ty PR as well. If no content, then they need to stop developing in and we all move on; whatever state this current mess of 1.2.10 patch is. We're not in early access, or a competitive game, or a game with financial implications tied to it; there's absolutely no reason why they have to be this non-communicative. Except for the fact they have nothing to give; ie. no content, no work done.
Commercially you have to work in the sector to realize this, but they are definitely right and have no choice in doing so. They don't have enough developers to guarantee deadlines, or even that all the planned content will succeed.
"Right" about what? That their hands are tied? That's a bs excuse. They aren't the managers (pretty sure they said they don't even have one), so we going to fall back yet again on excuse of "poor devs, it's all management's fault"? The choice they made is to not develop the game, not finish it, rush the incomplete mess on as many platforms, then hide away.
On the other hand, whatever the delay, I will never understand players who spit on free content... The game is already over, everything that happens is a bonus.
Game is not over, not until they finish developing it. Kenshi is finished. Warband is finished. Rimworld is. BL is far from it. They even said so themselves. It's not a bonus just because they rushed the incomplete game as 'officially' released. Post-dating the incomplete work to be added in 2 years later is not a 'bonus'.
Players love to point out what is missing in what was announced, but never talk about things that were not announced and even developed, for free...
The moment we, and any of us, put a single cent into this, it has not become free, nor some 'gift' to us. It's a product. I don't know a single thing that was developed for free, not 'new' feature that wasn't expected. TW was so happy to list out all the potential features, only to chop away at most of them, and half-ass the rest. Name one that was a surprise or was a surprising 'gift'.
 
TW was so happy to list out all the potential features, only to chop away at most of them, and half-ass the rest. Name one that was a surprise or was a surprising 'gift'.

Didn't you read his comment? He said weather was a free bonus! (Which is a glaring reflection of bias if that's the only one they came up with, which was also embarrassingly wrong in itself). Definitely wasn't shown in the game in 2015 through to 2017 when it was originally suppose to release!

On a serious note though, going through their "Future Plans" post @Dejan keeps pointing to, I've released that there will not be any major update.

The list contain bug fixes and balance fixes for mechanics they half heartily implemented. This post was probably well received when originally posted because it was in 2022 and I doubt anyone expected them to take two more years to implant these changes, and probably expected the next "future Plans" post to follow on shortly after.

We're in 2024 and they have barely scratched the surface of said list. The game is ****ed.
 
There is a difference between showing too much, and showing the game to players, selling it at full price and then removing features/dropping development of features after the game has sold.

Smithing: only to release and be able to craft javelins and spend years tinkering with it and finally adding other weapons, which still have gaps in them.
Functioning weather being shown in the game in 2015-2017: released years later and looks like **** for a 2020 game and the nighttime scenes pitch black that they are skipped entirely because TW doesn't know that the moon reflects light apparently so having the day/night cycle is almost void.
"Create your own Criminal Empire!": only to be workshop that you have to nanny across the whole map, making it an unviable/unusable mechanic.
"Buy and Manage Workshops": Unusable and from what I remember, is less management then what was available in WB and generating an average max profit of 100 a day is not a functional system, and then for the amount of workshops to be capped. Clicking "buy workshop" and then never doing anything with it again isn't a feature. It's cookie clicker but less fun.
Diplomacy: "Actually, nevermind"
Create your own settlements: "Actually, nevermind"
Battle Replay System shown in 2015: "Actually, nevermind"
Claimants: "Actually, nevermind"
Money Management: "We don't know how to create a monetary system and balance it so we are just going to rack up the price of everything and have lords and ladys never ask to join your kingdom unlike our last game, forcing you to pay them 400k and 700 horses to join"
Attributes: Majority of which don't have a function seeing as you are not a governor of a settlement, and why would you be?
Policies: Most shown in Strat Gaming video to not work.
Companion only groups in battle: Removed
Manual troop sorting: (i.e. sorting spear men into one group, sword into another etc): Removed
Setting Attack Targets on the Campaign Map: "Actually, nevermind"
Towns under siege look difference to towns that aren't: "Actually, nevermind"
"Immersive battles": Whoever was in charge of the sound design lied on their resumé because, "ahh" and repitched AOE2 sounds is not immersive.
"Voice lines": men have woman voices, woman have male voices and they change between the two in the same conversation.
"Armour": some good designs, but the visual variety between is shocking compared to Warband. You always look the same at the end and half the male nobles you come across have tits.
"Multiplayer": yikes

Lets not forget the "2" in the Mount & Blade 2. Generally when a game releases a sequel to their franchise, they improve and add. The only things TW have improved on are the graphics (which were downgraded on release (global illumination)), AI use ladders and some ****ty mini games like smithing, which again, is still broken. Sally Out is decent but I never used it after the first couple of times as it has no impact.

We would have expected the basic features from 1 to carry over such as camping, books, feasts, assassinations, manhunters, Marshalls, Peace Treaties and Alliances, females being treated differently etc etc etc but alas, I guess that is our own fault for "expecting too much" and not TW being ****. Cant believe I used to defend them during the MostBlunted days.
AMEN
 
And captains are still scrambled when the player reinforces an allied party, causing archer companions to get mixed in with cavalry.
 
And captains are still scrambled when the player reinforces an allied party, causing archer companions to get mixed in with cavalry.
Yeah, the whole thing is a **** show. When you press "delegate on command" and after find your archers getting bummed by cav because theyre standing in middle of the field or running away so you take over command only to find that you have 39 infantry in the cav section and 26 infantry in the horse archer section makes no sense.

Not to mention I have to reassign a horse and saddles to half my companions every other battle and to their party role (engineer, scout, medic) which becomes tiring very quickly,. But hey ho, at least they sorted out the other bugs and crashes no one was experiencing.
 
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