Patch Notes e1.8.1

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five bucks

Knight at Arms
I mostly agree but the AI enemy can't do anything useful with it's glaives so this part is more of a "player's mind game" issue. I get it is annoying to think that 1 t6 unit is grossly better then most others, but in the actual game enemy Khan's guards just ride around like any other HA
You can order them to hold fire if you want them to focus on melee, allowing the player to fully exploit the fact that they are the best melee cav/melee inf unit. And they also go to melee when they run out of arrows. Plus their bows are already good enough as it is.

The Glaive is really the unnecessary cherry on top: even when they run out of depleted uranium armour piercing ammo they're still the deadliest melee combatants in the game as well.
Broken? They're there only troops that actually work. OP? More power then troops that are utterly useless because of the garbage AI they use? GOOD.
It's not a good thing for only one troop type to be worth picking.

Obviously other troop types need to be buffed but Khan's Guard need to be nerfed too. Having a melee weapon that can one/twoshot makes it pointless to bother with cycle charging melee cavalry units - no matter how much you buff them - when you could send Khan's Guard into the fray with their Glaive lightsabers that don't require a charge in order to do massive damage, and get the same results but quicker. As well as having a good ranged weapon.

Let's say we made Banner Knights always instakill on a charge, and be perfectly accurate. They would still need to actually charge taking a few seconds each time to do that. Which is about the time Khan's Guard takes to kill someone in melee already. And Khan's Guard would still be better in sieges due to having a ranged weapon and better damage when not on a horse. So KGs would STILL be the best troop.

So even if other troop types were buffed (which they should be), Khan's Guards would still need to be nerfed.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
You can order them to hold fire if you want them to focus on melee, allowing the player to fully exploit the fact that they are the best melee cav/melee inf unit. And they also go to melee when they run out of arrows. Plus their bows are already good enough as it is.
Right, but the AI doesn't do it, so it doesn't matter. It only happens if you do it, so it's not like you can complain about yourself being unfair to yourself?
Obviously other troop types need to be buffed but Khan's Guard need to be nerfed too.
Perhaps, but consider that whatever you do to make other units effective will also carry over to the KG. So if melee cav can do anything worthwhile with it's weapons, so will the KG and in fact all the other HA with their spears and baby swords. Once cavalry is "fixed" every HA becomes a KG 🤡 . I would suggest though that TW look at speed damage bonuses for weapons and consider having a max for most weapons, maybe only allowing spear and lances to do unlimited speed boost (as everything does now).
So even if other troop types were buffed (which they should be), Khan's Guards would still need to be nerfed.
Maybe as part of an overall damage/armor improvement, but not just because they're the best. Something will always be the best and this type of thinking (nothing should be best) is only appropriate for multiplayer competitive games.... and even then it's never really realized, there's always better and worse options.
It's not a good thing for only one troop type to be worth picking.
I find my self only picking troops type early in the game, when you have a limit of 80-100 troops. Here, making you first party the most resilient and effective is important. Once you have a larger compacity for troops it becomes a less effective choice to go out of my way to recruit "only the best". If there was no campaign time (or if AI faction were much slower to re-build) it would be good to build only Khans Guards, Fians or whatever, but in the game as is the best troops become the ones you can get on the way to your target. My force soon becomes 1/7-1/10th Khans guards and the rest all free bees from prisoners or recruits along the way, to be used and shoved into garrisons.
 
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five bucks

Knight at Arms
Right, but the AI doesn't do it, so it doesn't matter. It only happens if you do it, so it's not like you can complain about yourself being unfair to yourself?
Why do gamedevs work so hard to balance singleplayer games? Why do they fix exploits? Because having to knowingly gimp yourself isn't fun.

It just makes the other content in the game worthless when one troop is the best at everything. You said this yourself at one point;
It just looks like a lot of filler content I guess. The strongest unit is the one you position and support so it can attack with an advantage: This is large technique. The small technique knowledge (troops skill, troops exact weapons, armor) become irrelevant with mastery of the large technique. The whole concept of "what troops is best" implies you have control over what troops you are raising and using, so as is common knowledge just get khan's guards, fians or other assorted ranged troops, it will be much better.
The game would be much more fun and interesting if all that content and knowledge wasn't worthless.
I would suggest though that TW look at speed damage bonuses for weapons and consider having a max for most weapons, maybe only allowing spear and lances to do unlimited speed boost (as everything does now).
That sounds like a good idea. The arrow speed boosts from infantry against charging cavalry don't even make sense to me.
Maybe as part of an overall damage/armor improvement, but not just because they're the best. Something will always be the best and this type of thinking (nothing should be best) is only appropriate for multiplayer competitive games.... and even then it's never really realized, there's always better and worse options.
Two troops being a bit better than the rest is fine.

Two troops being way way way way way better than the rest to the point all tactical advice boils down to "just get Khan's Guards and Fians and win easy" isn't fine.
I find my self only picking troops type early in the game, when you have a limit of 80-100 troops. Here, making you first party the most resilient and effective is important. In the game as is the best troops become the ones you can get on the way to your target. My force soon becomes 1/7-1/10th Khans guards and the rest all free bees from prisoners or recruits along the way, to be used and shoved into garrisons.
The thing is the Khan's Guards tend not to die. Unless you autocalc. So they just hang around in your party all the time being able to deal with pretty much any threat the enemy can throw at you at 10:1 odds and you don't have to give the tactical side of the game much thought. As you said, other troops are just garrison fodder.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
Why do gamedevs work so hard to balance singleplayer games?
I mean..... do they? 😏
It just makes the other content in the game worthless when one troop is the best at everything.
I do agree with this, I just think the problem is more with the poor performance and lack of bonuses (like map speed) on other troops and not the KG and
ranged troops being too good. I would look at KG as the gold standard that other t6 units should be, 1 way or another. I do agree about damage adjustments though, just not that "makes glaives bad" is the adjustment needed. I also think can come up with some kind of support bonus/need for infantry too.
The game would be much more fun and interesting if all that content and knowledge wasn't worthless.
Hmmmm... using the bad troops in the most advantageous way is also part of large technique. I don't know that troop details will ever be useful as whatever you can get ahold of without sacrificing campaign time (tempo) will be the best choice. I suppose if we had more HP and armor or an addition mechanic (like special weapons type defenses) then particular troop stat/gear could become more useful to consider. I just think it's not going to happen for Bannerlord, maybe a advanced mod or M&B 3.
Two troops being a bit better than the rest is fine.

Two troops being way way way way way better than the rest to the point all tactical advice boils down to "just get Khan's Guards and Fians and win easy" isn't fine.
Okay, I agree. I will say though, that advice can be applied to other ranged troops too. I don't think that KG are that much better then other HA or Fians other foot ranged. They're just good enough that if you have choice, with no other considerations (like at the games start/1st party) that it's worth making them over something else. Cavalry and Infantry just die too easily and kill too slowly (well... infantry just need to get to the enemy, then it's a good killer) so trying to use them too much gets players into unpleasant situations where a large battle causes too much down time (from troop loss) to make progress, or at least progress that makes the game feel enjoyable.
The thing is the Khan's Guards tend not to die
I don't want my Elite Cataphracts to die either! I mean they last longer then any other direct attacker, but still I want them to be even tougher!
you don't have to give the tactical side of the game much thought
I don't know, you still have to position and micro your troops or you will lose some, even if they're all t6. I think positioning KG and ranged to kill enemies safely is a lot more effort then watching a SW slowly waddle into another SW. And again, the time of the game where I have all KG or mostly KG is a very small window. And as my army capacity gets bigger, the amount of HA spawns are less and less in a full sized battle. I could try to retreat stuff, but I just deal with it. Maybe you can ignore live tactics, but you shouldn't, sooner or latter it will ad up.
As you said, other troops are just garrison fodder.
Yes, but garrison fodder is important too! I hold them back or even retreat them or separate usable infantry from riff raff and nakey horsemen from armored just so I can have that fodder left to shove into the garrisons and move to the next target.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I do agree with this, I just think the problem is more with the poor performance and lack of bonuses (like map speed) on other troops and not the KG and
ranged troops being too good.
Totally agree that other troops are too weak, but KG are also too good.
I would look at KG as the gold standard that other t6 units should be, 1 way or another.
But considering they are great at range and oneshot in melee, the whole point of melee cavalry, it's impossible to make every T6 unit just as good as them without giving them all bows.

Plus, KG's strength is just excessive. Just 10 KGs can kill over 200 recruits, with the very easily done F1+F2+turn left tactic, and using their glaives when they run out of ammo. I want T6 units to be good like you, but in a reasonable way. 10 men killing 200 without machine guns is just silly.

So that's why the Glaive needs to be nerfed. It just makes them way stronger than they need to be, and invalidates other melee troops, and for no good reason.
I do agree about damage adjustments though, just not that "makes glaives bad" is the adjustment needed.
Well we don't have to make them bad, just not the best melee weapon in the game.
Cavalry and Infantry just die too easily and kill too slowly (well... infantry just need to get to the enemy, then it's a good killer) so trying to use them too much gets players into unpleasant situations where a large battle causes too much down time (from troop loss) to make progress, or at least progress that makes the game feel enjoyable.
I fully, totally agree. Reducing arrow/bolt damage to armor, making spear/lance attacks more accurate, making spears actually get used, buffing the speed/damage of spears, nerfing the armor that archers/HAs have, and making some AI improvements will make that happen.
I don't want my Elite Cataphracts to die either! I mean they last longer then any other direct attacker, but still I want them to be even tougher!
Ditto.
 
Khan's Guard being good isn't a problem at all. KG being better than every unit at almost everything is a problem. Sure, they're not as good an archer as Fian Champs or as good a melee Cav as Elite Cataphracts, but they're the second best foot archer and melee cavalry ON TOP OF being the best shock infantry and horse archer. The only thing that they're not good at is being a shield infantry (thank god). They're also probably the most survivable unit due to being a horse archer with great armor.

I mean, them being the second best melee cav is more the result of them being so (unnecessarily) heavily armored and other noble cav units not having as much armor and being still a bit inaccurate. But them being the best or the second best at the game in 4 out of 5 roles is bonkers. My suggestions: Nerf the glaive, decrease their overall armor a tiny bit and in general make all noble troops much harder to recruit.

An additional suggestion: giving troops +5 HP for every 25/30/40/50 skill point in athletics. Athletics in troops are mostly useless now anyways. This makes the higher tier troops better at surviving and gives the Druzhinik line a reason for existing.

An unrelated suggestion: give the Sturgian archer line shields to make them not suck as much & the Druzhinik line 2 handed axes instead of a spear/lance to make them better as an infantry in sieges and more vikingy (I know they're based on the Kievan Rus).
 
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MostBlunted

Banned
Why still talk about the Khans Guard. Everyone and their moms knows they´re OP. It´s nothing new so TW SHOULD also know they´re OP. So it seems TW thinks it should be this way otherwise they would have done something in the past about it.

Discussion is worthless....
 

KrisThePlayer

Sergeant at Arms
We are aware of no XP for companion donation for nonclan leaders and no wanderers spawning. The fixes are in progress at the moment. Thanks for reporting!
Fix multiplayer servers crashes plz. It's been like that for ages. Can't even play friends without ragequitting because of the crashes that occur every 2-3 games.
 

Dice-seeR

Recruit
Players using mod "Birth and Death options" were probably note the next message
pmip2COHj

Options as usual are:
1. Ignore it assuming not all we see is what we really get.
2. Wait for upgrading mod "Birth & Death ..." ver.1.8.0.1942 up to version 1.8.1.1942 just to avoid "unexpected consequences". Like broken save if you played ironman...
So what do you prefer?
 

Grank

Master Knight
WBNWVC
Do any of you guys get a bug where all character portraits are missing eyes? I'm currently playing an old save with a bunch of mods so it's probably that, but I'd like to ask just to be sure.
 

BigFat

Sergeant
Do any of you guys get a bug where all character portraits are missing eyes? I'm currently playing an old save with a bunch of mods so it's probably that, but I'd like to ask just to be sure.
I've been getting that for awhile since 1.8, only mod I'm using is primae noctis so I don't think it's that. Maybe they had to cut back on eyes to fit a few more troops into the console version
 

Grank

Master Knight
WBNWVC
I've been getting that for awhile since 1.8, only mod I'm using is primae noctis so I don't think it's that. Maybe they had to cut back on eyes to fit a few more troops into the console version
Hmm. I didn't get it in 1.8. I did change my settings because I had to use safe mode and that resets your settings, so it's probably that.
 

AngryPanCake

Veteran
1.8.1 went straight to live. Presumably because it includes custom servers and multiplayer has never operated for betas.

I see, thank you for the clarification.
I wonder if the 1.8.0 compliant mods are still goo for 1.8.1, especially some of the different crash fixes the community produced? Otherwise, to me the game is literally unplayable with the governors crashes!
 
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