Patch Notes e1.2.1 & Beta Hotfix

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AfLIcTeD

Sergeant at Arms
not only that, 10% snowballs them, they can run around recruiting like crazy - once there is a critical mass of troops, they don't deal with bandits, only other NPC enemies / player. Starting from 0 delays that process. I don't think its hard to put a rule in that says NPC defeated = stay in own fief until recruit X then resume normal behavior.

Do that, or 10% and they stay in their fief for 7 days or whatever (I think that is worse tho).

Maybe a better solution is after a defeat, they 'disappear' for 7 days and then spawn with their 10% - I feel like that's what used to happen in warband, although I cant remember.
That's one way for factions to get snowballed. Wait 7 days to respawn. Wait another 3-4 days to recruit enough troops to dare venture out to recruit more or they are gonna get eaten by bandits. By the time they have recruited enough troops it has been 3 ingame weeks and the enemy has taken half their fiefs. 10% is nothing, it is about 10-15 troops on average.
 

Reiksmarshal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
It will be nice when perks get fixed, that will be the update I'll start playing again. I haven't played any Sturgia characters yet, the recent changes look promising, but I will wait for them to fix the broken horse armor for their elite cavalry first.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Those three clans in question all start with 1 town and 1 castle on game start though.

It's true that they are funding a different number of parties though. Aldric funds 3 (including himself), Godun funds 4, and Ergeon funds 2. And maybe depending on their clans' starting stewardship levels they are funding significantly different party cap numbers.

Edit: So on game start, Aldric's clan has a total collective party cap of 402 on with a town of prosperity 3200 + 3 bound villages. Godun has a collective cap of 532 with a town of prosperity 1700 + 2 bound villages. Ergeon has a collective cap of 290 with a town of prosperity 4000 + 3 bound villages. That might explain somewhat why Ergeon is so wealthy; smallish party cap with a fairly high prosperity town to start off. Also, it beats me why Tyal starts off with such a low prosperity. It's supplied by 6 villages and has a decent food supply. It can afford to start higher. Switch Varnovapol and Tyal's starting prosperity if anything.

Oh, and FYI @Dabos37, Uriksala Castle is really important for keeping Tyal fed because it supplys both grain and fish, but is easily taken as the closest fief to Khuzait. Without it Tyal has starvation problems.That could explain why Godun was doing well until it was taken.

Really interesting analysis mate, thanks. On the other hand, are you sure that Godun funds 4 parties (included himself)? In my previous campaigns, he funds 3 IIRC: Godun party, Svana party and Lek party. Other nobles stay in town.

Plus I believe that Ergeon also funds 3 parties but I need to check It, maybe I am wrong on this. Anyway, I also noticed that Ergeon parties usually has low amount of men for some reason (70-80) and this is probably the reason because he is so wealthy. Not sure why he is not recruiting more men, maybe because Battania is getting wrecked hard in this testing campaign.
 
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Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
On the other hand, are you sure that Godun funds 4 parties (included himself)? In my previous campaigns, he funds 3 IIRC: Godun party, Svana party and Lek party. Other nobles stay in town.
As far as Clan Vagiroving I have: Godun, Lek, Svana, and Sven. That's just according to the encyclopedia though, based on who's wearing armor.
For Clan fen Derngil it's just Ergeon and Sein I believe.

Ergeon should have a party cap of 20 (base) + 125 (clan rank 5 * 25) + 37 (stewardship 150/4) = 182 at the start of the game.
Sien on the other hand has 20 + 75 (clan rank * 15 for non-leader lords) + ~12 (his stewardship doesn't show because it's <60) = 107.

The breakdown of party size factors are:
  • 20 base
  • Stewardship / 4
  • Clan rank * 25 for clan leaders
  • Clan rank * 15 for non-clan leaders
  • An extra 20 for a faction ruler
  • 50 for Clan leaders only, from the Noble Retinues policy
  • 80 for a faction ruler only, from Royal Guard
Then I'm not really sure if the perks are factored in yet at this point.
Clan ranks will steadily rise as the game progresses, but I think rank 6 is reserved for faction rulers only. Stewardship though, I'm not quite sure how it works. Some lords grow a lot over the span of the game, some a little, and some none at all. Doesn't seem to be linear from what I can tell.

I'm not sure what might prevent Ergeon from recruiting a full party. Money maybe I guess.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
As far as Clan Vagiroving I have: Godun, Lek, Svana, and Sven. That's just according to the encyclopedia though, based on who's wearing armor.
For Clan fen Derngil it's just Ergeon and Sein I believe.

Ergeon should have a party cap of 20 (base) + 125 (clan rank 5 * 25) + 37 (stewardship 150/4) = 182 at the start of the game.
Sien on the other hand has 20 + 75 (clan rank * 15 for non-leader lords) + ~12 (his stewardship doesn't show because it's <60) = 107.

The breakdown of party size factors are:
  • 20 base
  • Stewardship / 4
  • Clan rank * 25 for clan leaders
  • Clan rank * 15 for non-clan leaders
  • An extra 20 for a faction ruler
  • 50 for Clan leaders only, from the Noble Retinues policy
  • 80 for a faction ruler only, from Royal Guard
Then I'm not really sure if the perks are factored in yet at this point.
Clan ranks will steadily rise as the game progresses, but I think rank 6 is reserved for faction rulers only. Stewardship though, I'm not quite sure how it works. Some lords grow a lot over the span of the game, some a little, and some none at all. Doesn't seem to be linear from what I can tell.

I'm not sure what might prevent Ergeon from recruiting a full party. Money maybe I guess.

I also checked armor in encyclopedia but It could be tricky. For example, Unthery wears armor but he is not a Commander. The best way to check It, is creating an army and check if you can call this lord. If you are not a vassal of the same faction, the other effective way is checking the reports in encyclopedia, if the lord has been taken prisioner, etc.

Nwin or something like this, I think she is also a Commander in clan Vagiroving, despite lacking armor in encyclopedia.

I think that clans have 3 parties as maximum, or at least Vlandia and Sturgia clans. Not sure about other kingdoms clans.
 

Tintenkobold

Regular
WB
  • Some lords were losing all their money and then starving. This was due to fortification taxes being too low, they have been increased by 25%. Also, NPC clan leaders now react faster to losing money and reduce their garrison sizes before going bankrupt.
[...]
  • There was no waiting time after captured lords were released; they were spawning at the next daily tick, now they spawn at least 2 days later.
  • Lords spawn with 10% of their party size filled instead of 25%
  • Owners now calculate their settlements' values more conservatively. If there was any hostile action to their fiefs their defence score grew significantly and they and they would go directly there to help. This negatively affected all AI score calculation systems. Additionally, there were other mechanics using this value that were also affected negatively.
  • There was a relation penalty if a settlement was lost between the owner of that settlement and their king. It was settlement value / 20K, now it is square root value of settlement value / 100K, (nearly 10x reduced). For example, for losing a castle with an estimated value of 600K, the lost relation was 30 previously, now it is 3. This was causing big relation drops when a settlement was lost and which in turn caused clans to defect because of this loss in relation.
  • An influence penalty has been added for if a settlement is lost (25 for a castle, 50 for a town).
  • Fixed a bug that prevented the player from receiving a relation benefit after helping a lord they had met previously.

Nice to see my feedback here. These fixes address some of the biggest problems, so good job. Like.

  • Cavalry advantage in simulations is reduced to 20% from 30%

I don't know what's the background for this but ooooooouupphh...this will result in more stupid losses of high tier soldiers when fighting nearly naked looters with stones in simulation. Don't like.
 

Pejot

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
Cavalry advantage in simulations is reduced to 20% from 30%


Probably it would give better results if unit HP calculation in autoresolve is changed.

Edit:
Maybe full HP in first round and current RNG in second.
 
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Beau Vine

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SVC
I don't know what's the background for this but ooooooouupphh...this will result in more stupid losses of high tier soldiers when fighting nearly naked looters with stones in simulation. Don't like.

The issue here isn't relative strength of cavalry. It is absolutely possible in manual for a looter with polearm to kill elite cav in very very unlucky scenario (like had this three times in 300+ hrs).

The issue here is that:
A - the small groups would often be killed with 0 wounded before they even get into stone-throwing range, both with F1-F3 and just standing and doing literally nothing. Auto calc being worse than doing nothing or charging in blindly does seem like a problem.
B - you'd throw more appropriate units at them, which the game is supposed to enable via Leadership perk attainable in early game, but that is not active at the moment (choose who to deploy).
 

VanHoven

Veteran
I don't know what's the background for this but ooooooouupphh...this will result in more stupid losses of high tier soldiers when fighting nearly naked looters with stones in simulation. Don't like.
its about the advantage that cavalry heavy nations like vlandia and mostly khuzait get, despite being faster on the campaign map allready.
 

Pejot

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
I don't know what's the background for this but ooooooouupphh...this will result in more stupid losses of high tier soldiers when fighting nearly naked looters with stones in simulation. Don't like

Unfortunately your dead T6 troops in autocalc are caused by RNG determining HP of the unit. It has nothing to do with the bonus to cav attack/Def. Even if they have big bonus there's still almost 10% chance they will be killed by looter.

Edit:
More precisely this bonus has really low effect on possibilty that T6 cav will be killed by looter.
 

110951667

Regular
I want to see all the people, who demand further workshop nerfs in the late-game with, say, at least 10 fiefs and each of them require a vast garrison in order not to be taken in a few months by some doomstack enemy army. Moreover, the garrison should consist of good soldiers, no less than tier 4, otherwise they will be as useless as simple militia. The cost of 10 garrisons +your party+ parties of your companions + caravans may result in a huge sum. This will be the point, when every 'Nerf this workshop' person will say 'Sh*t, I don't have much income from workshops, my caravans are getting constantly destroyed, the cities are all poor af (a town with more than 100k is a miracle for me right now) and my money is melting like Ice in the scorching weather.

In my late - game playthrough I have 4 castles and 1 town, all of them with full garrisons + and 3 parties of my children. And it costs me a lot, I lose about 4-5k a day, and a magical Tannery shop, which has been told to be unbalanced, gives me 200(!!!!!) denars a day which scarcely compensates any losses. Take into account that at any moment the city, in which your workshops are located, can be captured by enemy faction and your caravans are getting constantly destroyed, you will profit nothing from this.

But, I suppose most of these people are either play an end-game for a few days and create a new character or they are fine with the constant quest-grinding in order to compensate money losses somehow. Or they are satisfied with a 40-hour caravan grind while being neutral (it is quite rare occasion, when bandits are able to destroy your caravan), before becoming a vassal or creating their own kingdom.

So stop nerfing workshops, they are already almost useless. Pay your attention to real problems, like perks or beggar-lords please.

I don't know about the workshops, because I merely use them, but a garrison cap shouldn't be that high. When you look at a castle during a siege battle, you will notice that it's small and don't have enough barrack to put over 50 men in stationary. The game already has a militia system and I think the game should rely on it to defend a settlement instead of having the players to use their fief to hoard troops.
 

Pejot

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
I don't know about the workshops, because I merely use them, but a garrison cap shouldn't be that high. When you look at a castle during a siege battle, you will notice that it's small and don't have enough barrack to put over 50 men in stationary. The game already has a militia system and I think the game should rely on it to defend a settlement instead of having the players to use their fief to hoard troops.


Completely agree. Militia should be the core of castle/city defence while static garrison should be there in limited number just to keep order. Leaving more men at castle city should be just an option for peace time so You can run around with smaller party for the time and get Your men back when war comes.
 

110951667

Regular
A massive battle should change the course of war.
I deeply agree with this!
Lords should be using garrison from their fief as their initial respawn units and the garrison troops should have their own way to expand and upgrade.
They can also be given with an escout of mercenary units if they are some rich lords(it would be much better if the mercs are at least *2 more expensive than the regular units and allow the lords to dismiss them when his regular troops grow larger).
 

Beau Vine

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SVC
Completely agree. Militia should be the core of castle/city defence while static garrison should be there in limited number just to keep order. Leaving more men at castle city should be just an option for peace time so You can run around with smaller party for the time and get Your men back when war comes.

Not sure how hard would it be to adjust so that AI sees as much/little as player with king ie seeing all that all his vassals see, but at this moment AI has allsight for all garrisons, which is one of reasons for it beelining deep inside enemy territory where it should make sense to keep smaller garrisons.

 

110951667

Regular
... Leaving more men at castle city should be just an option for peace time so You can run around with smaller party for the time and get Your men back when war comes.
Good idea! And it's not breaking the immersion if imagining it. During the peace time the troops of a lord could be assigned for patrolling role to keep the area safe for his subjects. Maybe add a new building for the settlement manage panel called "Watch Tower", to simulate where these patrols live. Each Watch Tower level add a Patrol slot for the fief that can store up to 20 men. Give them a speed bonus so they can catch up with at least the Looters. And let them to wander around the area like bandits from a hideout.
 

Pejot

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
Not sure how hard would it be to adjust so that AI sees as much/little as player with king ie seeing all that all his vassals see, but at this moment AI has allsight for all garrisons, which is one of reasons for it beelining deep inside enemy territory where it should make sense to keep smaller garrisons.


You have the same allsight like AI. You have garrisons and prosperity in encyclopedia.

Edit:
Just to note. I don't like this solution with all info available in encyclopedia cause it seems that player has the best spy network in all Calradia knowing exactly what's the situation on the other side of the map. Maybe it should be changed to store the information from the time You last visited the place/spoke with lord.
 

Beau Vine

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SVC
You have the same allsight like AI. You have garrisons and prosperity in encyclopedia.

Edit:
Just to note. I don't like this solution with all info available in encyclopedia cause it seems that player has the best spy network in all Calradia knowing exactly what's the situation on the other side of the map. Maybe it should be changed to store the information from the time You last visited the place/spoke with lord.
Thank you!

Maybe it could share the Trade tips framework, except based on roguery, where clan scout roams etc? Shops, caravans, conversations could all give you this information.

Anything that would base knowledge of garrisons on either having troops or caravans getting in range of that specific garrison could add a lot of depth to the economy side, and if implemented - to diplomacy (information sharing).
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Really interesting analysis mate, thanks. On the other hand, are you sure that Godun funds 4 parties (included himself)? In my previous campaigns, he funds 3 IIRC: Godun party, Svana party and Lek party. Other nobles stay in town.

Plus I believe that Ergeon also funds 3 parties but I need to check It, maybe I am wrong on this. Anyway, I also noticed that Ergeon parties usually has low amount of men for some reason (70-80) and this is probably the reason because he is so wealthy. Not sure why he is not recruiting more men, maybe because Battania is getting wrecked hard in this testing campaign.

I have just confirmed it, fen Derngil clan also funds 3 parties:

- Ergeon
- Sein
- Nywin

So yeah, I think 3 parties for clans is the max number for the AI while it is 4 for the player.

BTW, why troops get wounded instead of deserting when Lords do not have money? Maybe to avoid lords recruiting troops and deserting never ending cycle?
 
You have the same allsight like AI. You have garrisons and prosperity in encyclopedia.

Edit:
Just to note. I don't like this solution with all info available in encyclopedia cause it seems that player has the best spy network in all Calradia knowing exactly what's the situation on the other side of the map. Maybe it should be changed to store the information from the time You last visited the place/spoke with lord.
The devs made the encyclopedia for a reason, it's a real hassle to pick up information from NPCs that can become outdated within a day.
 
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